DeSantis could sink our chances of cruising out of Florida

[ReneeFLL]

11 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

10 or 100 what difference would it make to the infected population in Fort Lauderdale or Miami?

 

Apparently, being vaxed ain’t enough, just listen to TF.  So, are we going to stay at zero cruises forever?  While restaurants and bars and street riots happen daily?  Really?  Is that science or science denial I get so confused by so many conflicted points of view.

 

 

I used the number 10 because that’s what you used. Who said anything about staying at zero cruises forever? I know I didn’t. We apparently aren’t reading the same things or I missed those comments.

Btw, 100 people will infect a lot more people than 10 and it will keep snowballing from there.

 

11 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Meh... I just don't rank them as a ctuise shipcategory, probably due to the size of their ships. 

So since his answer of the truth didn’t fit your narrative you now say that you don’t rank them as a cruise ship category? 🤣🤣🤣 You can’t have it both ways. Pick one and stick with it. 🙄

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

So since his answer of the truth didn’t fit your narrative you now say that you don’t rank them as a cruise ship category? 🤣🤣🤣 You can’t have it both ways. Pick one and stick with it. 🙄

 

I did not know they were cruising out of the US yet. When did they start? 

[xpcdoojk]

ReneeFL, my point is how many people today in Miami are positive for Covid19?  1000, 2000.... ???

 

If 10 or 100 show up on a Carnival Mardi Gras ship with Covid, are they going to deny the people on the ship to get off?  I think if we are talking March of 2020... maybe.  Today?  NO WAY!

 

The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.

 

I truly say, we may all be dead tomorrow but it is damn well time to quit freaking out over Covid19

[yogimax]

39 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.

 

I truly say, we may all be dead tomorrow but it is damn well time to quit freaking out over Covid19

"having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying." 

 

Is this a joke?  This is totally insulting to families who are losing loved ones every day.

[Ellaleah]

2 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

ReneeFL, my point is how many people today in Miami are positive for Covid19?  1000, 2000.... ???

 

If 10 or 100 show up on a Carnival Mardi Gras ship with Covid, are they going to deny the people on the ship to get off?  I think if we are talking March of 2020... maybe.  Today?  NO WAY!

 

The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.

 

I truly say, we may all be dead tomorrow but it is damn well time to quit freaking out over Covid19

Written like someone who had has no up-close experience with people who have suffered from COVID.

[ReneeFLL]

4 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

ReneeFL, my point is how many people today in Miami are positive for Covid19?  1000, 2000.... ???

 

If 10 or 100 show up on a Carnival Mardi Gras ship with Covid, are they going to deny the people on the ship to get off?  I think if we are talking March of 2020... maybe.  Today?  NO WAY!

 

The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.

 

I truly say, we may all be dead tomorrow but it is damn well time to quit freaking out over Covid19

I don’t think they would deny them getting off. My point is why have a bigger chance of things going wrong and ruining the cruise for so many people. Yes, I know other things can go wrong, but we are talking about a deadly virus. I want to get back to normal whatever that may be, but I think if they jump head first into it things can backfire and set everything back. You know the saying slow and steady wins the race, at least I hope so. We all want to be over this crap and I do as much as the next person. 

 

If there was a big out break on a cruise that was allowed to sail out of the US, what do you think the CDC will do? Something I would hope that can be avoided. Being cautious is not freaking out.

[skywonder]

6 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

ReneeFL, my point is how many people today in Miami are positive for Covid19?  1000, 2000.... ???

 

If 10 or 100 show up on a Carnival Mardi Gras ship with Covid, are they going to deny the people on the ship to get off?  I think if we are talking March of 2020... maybe.  Today?  NO WAY!

 

The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.

 

I truly say, we may all be dead tomorrow but it is damn well time to quit freaking out over Covid19

One of the best post I have read today. Well said.

Edited April 16, 2021 by skywonder

[skywonder]

4 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

Written like someone who had has no up-close experience with people who have suffered from COVID.

Well a lot of people have had close up experience's with people who have suffered from a lot of things. That does not mean they should give up living life. If a person is that fearful, maybe they should stay inside and wait this thing out, that is up to them. The rest of us have lives to live and have been living them just fine, free of fear. Being cautious is one thing but living like a child that is scared of the dark is another.

[Junkhouse]

It appears again that politics override science/facts. During a committee meeting yesterday a congress”person” spilled the beans and “answered” for Fauci that it would take 90% of Congress to relax restrictions.

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, skywonder said:

Well a lot of people have had close up experience's with people who have suffered from a lot of things. That does not mean they should give up living life. If a person is that fearful, maybe they should stay inside and wait this thing out, that is up to them. The rest of us have lives to live and have been living them just fine, free of fear. Being cautious is one thing but living like a child that is scared of the dark is another.

 

I'm not sure flaunting and cloaking ignorance (of exponential growth and virus mutations) in machismo is very convincing.     

[xpcdoojk]

8 hours ago, yogimax said:

"having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying." 

 

Is this a joke?  This is totally insulting to families who are losing loved ones every day.

No, aren’t you the one quoting that half a million have died.  The tv tells me how many millions are infected.  I am not talking about the deaths and the tragic loss, and even you know better.  You are just pretending to care more.  Great, you care.  Happy for you.

 

if 100 people show up at a Port city like FLL or MIA with Covid19, it is not going to freak out the hospital infrastructure which was what I said, and not the cherry picked quote, and you know it.

 

I am going to start selectively editing your posts and we shall see how you like it.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

9 hours ago, yogimax said:

"having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying." 

 

Is this a joke?  This is totally insulting to families who are losing loved ones every day.

 

I see his point. People die each & everyday for many reasons. Car accidents, Cancer, Heart attacks, yet these three happen daily and have for many, many years. It is not insulting at all. There are far more people that have had Covid and lived than there are that have died. 

[ticketsunlimited]

Reading through the 300+ comments with both scientific and political responses I think the consensus has pretty much agreed on what the topic was initially about.

If cruising was to start in the near future (who knows what that means) it would be beneficial to start with ships completely vaccinated.  
I also think the consensus is that DeSantis stepping in to take that possibility of sailing away from all of us with his “executive order” is not beneficial to anyone.

The only benefit of his blocking companies from requiring proof of vaccination before boarding I have read about on this topic is the few that feel their  “liberty’s” are being stripped away.

My final thought is under the current conditions with Covid the cruising companies would get faster approval to sail, passengers would be safer, passengers would feel more comfortable, ports of call would be more accessible, and the industry could start to get on their feet if fully vaccinated cruises where allowed to begin initially. 
It would not be forever!! Those that don’t care to partake because they feel their “liberties” have been stripped can wait until the cruise companies change their policies back to pre-pandemic days.

 

 

[Joebucks]

22 hours ago, harkinmr said:

The obligation begins and ends when there is a deadly virus that impacts us all.  Common human decency and, yes, moral obligation comes into play.  I agree that people also have an obligation to not drink and drive and there are criminal and civil penalties for doing so.  Those who choose to drink and drive are violating their obligation to others as well.  Shall we have criminal or civil penalties against those who have been intentionally negligent and sickened another with COVID? 

 

My mother died of COVID.  She lived in a congregate elder care center in Florida and never left there.  A staff member brought COVID into the facility and sickened 40 out of 80 patients, numerous of which passed away, including my mother who suffered terribly.  I don't know whether that staff person was intentionally negligent, but that person suffered no consequences for their actions/inactions.  But I still hold them and the facility she was in responsible for her death.  My opinion.  It is not a slippery slope when it comes to common sense and decency. 

 

Finally, there will be no federal mandate for vaccines at this time.  Could that change in the future.  Maybe.  Vaccine mandates have been upheld in all 50 states for public schools and universities.  The EEOC has said that employers can mandate the COVID vaccine as well.  These mandates have, and will likely continue to be legally supported.  If the cruise lines mandate vaccines it is well within their rights to do so at this time.  Personal freedom and liberty will be left shoreside.

 

I'm really sorry you lost your mother to this. I truly am. 

 

With that said, almost every time I hear about "common decency and moral obligation" on the internet, it is an emotional play to override logic. This is no different. It's almost like correlating that me cruising without a vaccine personally killing people like your mother because I am selfish. 

 

COVID is not a threat to everyone, period. In the nursing home incidents, what if the patients and staff were vaccinated? What does it matter at that point what someone on vacation is doing? Quit always trying to point the blame to someone. For anyone who just opened up Google to find a reason to argue that, just stop. We had tons of nursing home deaths because we "took action" but not the right action in most cases. Look at the disaster in New York. Just "doing stuff" is ineffective and always will be. 

 

And then we talk about selfish people who don't want to get vaccinated because other people might have their vacation inconvenienced. Talk about irony. You can't make this self-righteousness up. I don't take medicine I don't need. I have already had COVID. Not only was I just fine, but no one has yet to prove why I need a vaccine or that the vaccine is stronger than my natural immunity. There is no reason to stop a cruise if all of the scared and sick people have the vaccination. We never stopped a cruise for an illness matter how old and sickly some people were on board. Just put the internet down. 

 

20 hours ago, D C said:

Mandated by whom?

A cruise line wanting to minimise illness and the potential for cruise disruption is perfectly in line requiring their customers be vaccinated.  It's for the benefit of them and their customers and offers the possibility of a cruise that is perfectly normal in every way.  People aren't required to vaccinate unless they want to partake in cruising. It's a personal decision/tradeoff.

 

This post screams of "I fully support the right of businesses to make the choices they feel are right for their business. As long as it is exactly the same view I have". 

[xpcdoojk]

4 hours ago, ticketsunlimited said:

Reading through the 300+ comments with both scientific and political responses I think the consensus has pretty much agreed on what the topic was initially about.

If cruising was to start in the near future (who knows what that means) it would be beneficial to start with ships completely vaccinated.  
I also think the consensus is that DeSantis stepping in to take that possibility of sailing away from all of us with his “executive order” is not beneficial to anyone.

The only benefit of his blocking companies from requiring proof of vaccination before boarding I have read about on this topic is the few that feel their  “liberty’s” are being stripped away.

My final thought is under the current conditions with Covid the cruising companies would get faster approval to sail, passengers would be safer, passengers would feel more comfortable, ports of call would be more accessible, and the industry could start to get on their feet if fully vaccinated cruises where allowed to begin initially. 
It would not be forever!! Those that don’t care to partake because they feel their “liberties” have been stripped can wait until the cruise companies change their policies back to pre-pandemic days.

 

 

Thanks for presenting your opinion as a consensus.

 

I read it as an opinion.

[Pratique]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

There is no reason to stop a cruise if all of the scared and sick people have the vaccination. We never stopped a cruise for an illness matter how old and sickly some people were on board. Just put the internet down.

Huh?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/10/cruise-ship-norovrius-outbreak-sickens-300-amid-coronavirus-onboard-others/4715417002/

[coffeebean]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:47 PM, cruisinfanatic said:

And they wouldn't have died if they didn't get covid

Agree. This is a very simple concept to grasp. All those people who died with Covid should most certainly be included in the Covid death stats. They were still alive dealing with their co-morbidities but it was Covid that ultimately caused their untimely deaths. We will never know how much longer those people may have lived if they did not contract Covid.

[KsucAts]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I'm really sorry you lost your mother to this. I truly am. 

 

With that said, almost every time I hear about "common decency and moral obligation" on the internet, it is an emotional play to override logic. This is no different. It's almost like correlating that me cruising without a vaccine personally killing people like your mother because I am selfish. 

 

COVID is not a threat to everyone, period. In the nursing home incidents, what if the patients and staff were vaccinated? What does it matter at that point what someone on vacation is doing? Quit always trying to point the blame to someone. For anyone who just opened up Google to find a reason to argue that, just stop. We had tons of nursing home deaths because we "took action" but not the right action in most cases. Look at the disaster in New York. Just "doing stuff" is ineffective and always will be. 

 

And then we talk about selfish people who don't want to get vaccinated because other people might have their vacation inconvenienced. Talk about irony. You can't make this self-righteousness up. I don't take medicine I don't need. I have already had COVID. Not only was I just fine, but no one has yet to prove why I need a vaccine or that the vaccine is stronger than my natural immunity. There is no reason to stop a cruise if all of the scared and sick people have the vaccination. We never stopped a cruise for an illness matter how old and sickly some people were on board. Just put the internet down. 

 

 

This post screams of "I fully support the right of businesses to make the choices they feel are right for their business. As long as it is exactly the same view I have". 

This is how me and my wife (and 2 children) feel.  We all have had the virus.  There is no evidence that I have seen that any more than a tiny, tiny fraction of people have become reinfected.  So the logic tells me that the natural immunity is very strong.  I see articles every day about vaccinated people becoming infected.  So that reassures me that the natural immunity is stronger than the vaccine.  I also hear of a lot of people having (most of them minor) side affects to the vaccine.  So why on earth should I get a vaccine where I am likely to have some sort of side affects when I already have stronger immunity to the virus than the vaccine provides.

[time4u2go]

6 hours ago, Joebucks said:

We never stopped a cruise for an illness matter how old and sickly some people were on board. Just put the internet down. 

Uh...not true:

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article240761311.html

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/270-cruise-ship-passengers-sickened-norovirus-royal-caribbean/story?id=60291868

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by time4u2go

[D C]

13 minutes ago, KsucAts said:

This is how me and my wife (and 2 children) feel.  We all have had the virus.  There is no evidence that I have seen that any more than a tiny, tiny fraction of people have become reinfected.  So the logic tells me that the natural immunity is very strong.  I see articles every day about vaccinated people becoming infected.  So that reassures me that the natural immunity is stronger than the vaccine.  I also hear of a lot of people having (most of them minor) side affects to the vaccine.  So why on earth should I get a vaccine where I am likely to have some sort of side affects when I already have stronger immunity to the virus than the vaccine provides.

 

Just because infection after vaccination is a hot topic in the media, why would you conclude that natural immunity is stronger?  There is plenty information out there suggesting that the immune response from vaccines is stronger than that from an infection. 

[Mikew0805]

11 hours ago, skywonder said:

Well a lot of people have had close up experience's with people who have suffered from a lot of things. That does not mean they should give up living life. If a person is that fearful, maybe they should stay inside and wait this thing out, that is up to them. The rest of us have lives to live and have been living them just fine, free of fear. Being cautious is one thing but living like a child that is scared of the dark is another.

Living like a child that is scared of the dark? Where do you get this nonsense? 1 in 55 people who get Covid in the US... die from it. They key is to do everything you can to NOT get it. The fragile snowflakes that are scared of a mask... amaze me. 

 

In America it really is about looking out for what is best for me isn't it? I really need to change to that, and the next time I hear someone on these boards, as they have in the past, say "it's not all about me," I am going to jump in and and tell em right where to go:

 

You can't come to the dining room in shorts and flip flops... too bad, it's all about me.

You can't  be late returning to the ship and causing everyone to wait - too bad, it's all about me.

You can't  hold a chair with a towel from dawn to dusk -  too bad, it's all about me.

You can't reach in to the buffet and grab food with my hands - too bad, it's all about me.

You have to tip the staff - too bad, it's all about me.

 

 

Not sure how the mitigation of the loss of life, during a global pandemic (which will not last forever, but certainly longer than it should have so far) is a controversy.

 

 

[grapau27]

18 hours ago, yogimax said:

"having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying." 

 

Is this a joke?  This is totally insulting to families who are losing loved ones every day.

I agree.

After having covid19 and stuck in bed for 4 weeks it certainly is worrying and my deepest condolences go to the families of every single person who died with covid19.

Graham.

[DCGuy64]

6 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I'm really sorry you lost your mother to this. I truly am. 

 

With that said, almost every time I hear about "common decency and moral obligation" on the internet, it is an emotional play to override logic. This is no different. It's almost like correlating that me cruising without a vaccine personally killing people like your mother because I am selfish. 

 

COVID is not a threat to everyone, period. In the nursing home incidents, what if the patients and staff were vaccinated? What does it matter at that point what someone on vacation is doing? Quit always trying to point the blame to someone. For anyone who just opened up Google to find a reason to argue that, just stop. We had tons of nursing home deaths because we "took action" but not the right action in most cases. Look at the disaster in New York. Just "doing stuff" is ineffective and always will be. 

 

And then we talk about selfish people who don't want to get vaccinated because other people might have their vacation inconvenienced. Talk about irony. You can't make this self-righteousness up. I don't take medicine I don't need. I have already had COVID. Not only was I just fine, but no one has yet to prove why I need a vaccine or that the vaccine is stronger than my natural immunity. There is no reason to stop a cruise if all of the scared and sick people have the vaccination. We never stopped a cruise for an illness matter how old and sickly some people were on board. Just put the internet down. 

 

 

This post screams of "I fully support the right of businesses to make the choices they feel are right for their business. As long as it is exactly the same view I have". 

Smartest thing I've read all day. Especially the part about people taking cheap shots at others in the name of "caring" more for others. Classic ad hominem, specifically this one, it's an appeal to emotion, and thus a logical fallacy. Anyone who tries that on me, has failed to persuade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

[harkinmr]

21 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Smartest thing I've read all day. Especially the part about people taking cheap shots at others in the name of "caring" more for others. Classic ad hominem, specifically this one, it's an appeal to emotion, and thus a logical fallacy. Anyone who tries that on me, has failed to persuade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

Pretentious nonsense.  Pure and simple.  "Cheap shots"?  Pot meet kettle.

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

.......The world has changed in so many regrettable ways, but the reality is having Covid19 is not special or unique or even worrying.  We need to realize where we are!  We need to get back to life.......

 

 

 

Did you really mean to say that? Honestly? SMH!