Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Here's a LINK to an article regarding forged CDC vaccination cards - and the vaccine passport issue. This post, and the site itself, should be less controversial than the last one I referenced which was deleted.

 

My apologies regarding any posts in the past where my values/emotions got the best of me and I waded into that landmine area which is politics. I'm sure I could sit down and enjoy a drink while at sea with most any of you folks - and have plenty of positive things to discuss!

 

Tom

[dallasdan]

For those worried about the 5% and criminal forgers ruining their cruise because of an outbreak, please answer the following:  Couldn't a vaccinated person bring covid on to the ship and cause an outbreak among the vaccinated?  I thought you could still get covid and transmit with the vaccine.  

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

12 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

...Couldn't a vaccinated person bring covid on to the ship and cause an outbreak among the vaccinated?  I thought you could still get covid and transmit with the vaccine.  

 

Anything is possible, but the likelihood of that scenario occurring (over:  an unvaccinated person brining it onto the ship and causing an outbreak among the unvaccinated) is next to nothing. It's a discussion for the sake of discussion essentially.

 

Tom

[OceanZena]

1 minute ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Anything is possible, but the likelihood of that scenario occurring (over: substitute unvaccinated brining it onto the ship and causing an outbreak among the unvaccinated) is next to nothing. It only a discussion for the sake of discussion essentially.

 

Tom

Until the ships begin sailing and we have real data, this is merely speculation. 

[cscurlock]

22 hours ago, moondog73 said:

This thread is just Great!!!  By the same logic people will not get the vax, then you should never take advil since it is bad for you liver, dont eat fried foods since it is bad for you heart and pancreas, redmeat bad for heart, eggs bad for chloestoral, alcohol bad for liver, and most drugs have a super lsmall percentage of death.  Also you can NEVER have any surgery since there is a smaal percentage of death too. 

 

Yes it is true some people got blood clots that took certain vaccines.  But saying the vaccine caused it though would be like me saying it prevented blood clots in 99% of the people who took it.  It is just all nonsense. No one can say with 100% certainty.

 

I wish all health care companies would rally together and just say if you dont get a vax, pay for any potential covid related costs yourself.  My company said we do not have to get a vax.  However, if we get covid with a vax they would pay us while off.  Without a vax, it is on your dime.  Not one person has complained about it. 

 

If/when cruising starts back up, I hope they require vaccinations.  For every person with out one, there will be 4 lined up and waiting to go.  It is your right to get one or not, but you can't complain if a compay requires you to hav one to sail.  Why should I potentially surfer a cancelled cruise/quarantine becuase peopel won't comply?  If the risks were so high, the governments of the world would not all be on board with it.  Heck, the drug compaines would not put themselves out there for all the sue happy clowns in the USA either.

I think at the end of the day the cruise lines will require vaccinations because of the cost.  Its just a no brainer.  Vaccinated people could get Covid but it won't put them in a hospital and it wont stop a cruise.  At the end of the day this is the bottom line.  They wont take a chance on having to turn around and quarantine the entire ship.  They just cant afford that headline. So they are going to throw out the simulated voyages and just require vaccinations because it costs very little.  People who want to wait for full approval for the vaccine or herd immunity, they can wait.  I wouldn't worry about the counterfeit cards, states have databases they can check those when you do your check in.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

8 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

...  I wouldn't worry about the counterfeit cards, states have databases they can check those when you do your check in.

 

Even if they don't go to the trouble/effort of checking all appropriate databases, I'd hope that at least they SAY that they're going to verify it. That alone would cut down on those trying to skim their way back onboard prematurely.

 

Sort of like when Carnival had they muster drills and loudly announced "the count" to assure people were all there. They were just going through the motions trying to appear as if they were conducting some type of comprehensive attendance. I think that they were the last line (that we frequent) who actually verified attendance at the safety briefings.

 

Tom

[bamaone]

1 hour ago, cscurlock said:

I think at the end of the day the cruise lines will require vaccinations because of the cost.  Its just a no brainer.  Vaccinated people could get Covid but it won't put them in a hospital and it wont stop a cruise.  At the end of the day this is the bottom line.  They wont take a chance on having to turn around and quarantine the entire ship.  They just cant afford that headline. So they are going to throw out the simulated voyages and just require vaccinations because it costs very little.  People who want to wait for full approval for the vaccine or herd immunity, they can wait.  I wouldn't worry about the counterfeit cards, states have databases they can check those when you do your check in.

It will be interesting to see this play out. Both Florida and Texas have said no vaccine requirements in their states. I can see Louisiana and Alabama following their lead.  

[BoozinCroozin]

For FL, DeSantis is about to sign the ban on vaccine passports. That is going to be a minor roadblock that can be overcome fairly easily. The CSO injunction case is on May 12th. I think there will be several discussions before then to see if a compromise can be made. I think both sides are closer than either want to make public at the moment. I think it will go down in order to avoid the case going to court.

 

CDC: Mid-July start with 98% and 95%.

FL: No vaccine requirement at all

CDC: Then no start in Mid-July

FL: 95% is fine for all that can be vaccinated excluding children under 16

CDC: That can work if they agree to daily temperature checks

FL: OK, I think we can all agree to it

 

Its like they say in a negotiation, if both parties come out unhappy, then it was a success.

Edited May 3, 2021 by BoozinCroozin

[BlerkOne]

The CDC mentioned 95% and 98%. No where did they say that was also the maximum. Easiest thing for Carnival to do is require vaccines of all, passengers and crew. Paradise is already vaccinated and more ships are getting vaccines. Might as well give them to the crews, since anti-vaxers are balking. I guess they won't be cruising.

 

I see a number of people have decided to skip the second shot - that means not fully immunized and no cruise for you!

 

Think surviving covid gets you out of the vaccine requirement? Nope - no cruise for you.

 

As for Arnold Donald, I still say he was saying there will be no mandate from corporate regarding vaccines - individual cruise lines decide for themselves. Christine is already on record as saying they think some ports might require vaccines for crew, which is one reason they are getting vaccinated. And if vaccines are required for crew, I don't see how passengers will be exempted. At least until the pandemic is over.

 

Speaking of pandemics, it is now looking less likely that the US will ever reach herd immunity. Masks for everyone!

 

 

[DCGuy64]

I can imagine the legal department at Carnival Corp and others working on some nice T&C's for future sailings. You can bet your bottom dollar they'll indemnify themselves six ways to Sunday. Probably something along the lines of "I acknowledge that sailing aboard this vessel during a global pandemic may expose me to some risk of contracting Covid-19 and I expressly hold Carnival Corp. and its assigns harmless henceforth and forever, etc. etc."

 

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

I can imagine the legal department at Carnival Corp and others working on some nice T&C's for future sailings. You can bet your bottom dollar they'll indemnify themselves six ways to Sunday. Probably something along the lines of "I acknowledge that sailing aboard this vessel during a global pandemic may expose me to some risk of contracting Covid-19 and I expressly hold Carnival Corp. and its assigns harmless henceforth and forever, etc. etc."

 

Carnival doesn't keep a herd of lawyers on staff for nothing. Or that Florida is the capital of ex-cruise ship lawyers turned ambulance chasers. Let the games begin. Carnival would settle most rather than risk having a precedent set.

 

Someone who won't stand a chance of being indemnified are the liars, cheaters, and thieves who try to sail with fake covid credentials. They will likely be risking criminal penalties and certainly civil liabilities. If they have any money left, they still won't be able to cruise with a lifetime ban. One would think they wouldn't disgrace and cheapen their family name, but I guess not everyone cares if their word is worth anything.

 

 

[Stallion]

Its already in the Cruise Contract I read this morning-I think it was Carnival. Had 5 long paragraphs about Covid

[crazy4themouse]

58 minutes ago, bamaone said:

It will be interesting to see this play out. Both Florida and Texas have said no vaccine requirements in their states. I can see Louisiana and Alabama following their lead.  

 

This keeps being said, but it's not entirely true. Abbott's order says that businesses or entities that receive state funding cannot require vaccines -- Cruise lines definitely do not fall under that. And as shown yesterday, we love, miss, and want to see cruising back here in Texas pronto!! 🥰

 

 

[harkinmr]

31 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

For FL, DeSantis is about to sign the ban on vaccine passports. That is going to be a minor roadblock that can be overcome fairly easily. The CSO injunction case is on May 12th. I think there will be several discussions before then to see if a compromise can be made. I think both sides are closer than either want to make public at the moment. I think it will go down in order to avoid the case going to court.

 

CDC: Mid-July start with 98% and 95%.

FL: No vaccine requirement at all

CDC: Then no start in Mid-July

FL: 95% is fine for all that can be vaccinated excluding children under 16

CDC: That can work if they agree to daily temperature checks

FL: OK, I think we can all agree to it

 

Its like they say in a negotiation, if both parties come out unhappy, then it was a success.

That's a nice little negotiation sketch IF DeSantis actually had any legal authority to ban vaccine requirements on cruise ships.  He doesn't.  In any event, his negotiations would be with the cruise lines not the CDC.  If the CDC were mandating vaccines the battle would be over in the blink of an eye.  Federal law wins.

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, Stallion said:

Its already in the Cruise Contract I read this morning-I think it was Carnival. Had 5 long paragraphs about Covid

 

https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/legal-notice/ticket-contract

 

Indeed, section 5, subsections a-f. This last part really stands out, kind of glad I'm not sailing until around 9 months after it restarts:

(f) Guest further understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Guest has fully complied with all COVID-19 Guest Protocols, such Guest tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carnival may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Guest as well as members of Guest’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carnival determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, any such Guest who is disembarked, refused re-boarding, or quarantined shall be entitled to a prorated future cruise credit for the unused portion of the Cruise Fare. Each such Guest is responsible for all related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expense. Under no circumstances shall Carnival be liable to any such Guest for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Guest.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/legal-notice/ticket-contract

 

 

 

I see nothing but good news!!

 

I especially like the parts about covid information on the website supersedes the ticket contract - very unusual.

 

and this:

(4) mandatory use by each Guest (except for children under the age of 2 years) of face masks in most locations outside of the Guest’s stateroom while on board, during embarkation, disembarkation and shore excursions;

 

It's like the greatest hits!

 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

Love, love, love this

 

"(d) Notwithstanding any other provision contained herein or in Carnival’s Refund Policy, any noncompliance by Guest or members of Guest’s travelling party with Carnival’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols or this Ticket Contract shall be grounds for refusal to board, refusal to re-board after going ashore, quarantine on board the Vessel, disembarkation, reporting to governmental or health authorities, or other steps deemed necessary in Carnival’s sole discretion under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, Guest shall not be entitled to a refund or compensation of any kind. Guest will be responsible for all related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expenses and for proper travel documentation for any port, or for departure from or arrival to the port of embarkation. Under no circumstances shall Carnival be liable for any damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Guest as a result of such denial of boarding, refusal to re-board, quarantine, disembarkation, or other steps taken by Carnival."

[BlerkOne]

15 hours ago, Moviela said:

Getting back to the title of the thread, the latest gestations from the CDC recognizes the effect of the vaccine on the spread of the disease, and the elimination of the need for hospitalization for the poor souls that contract it after vaccination.

 

Uh, hundreds or more of fully vaccinated poor souls have required hospitalization and dozens or more have died. Nothing is off the table, including masks. Per the Carnival ticket contract, masks are required.

[cruisingguy007]

16 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Love, love, love this

 

"(d) Notwithstanding any other provision contained herein or in Carnival’s Refund Policy, any noncompliance by Guest or members of Guest’s travelling party with Carnival’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols or this Ticket Contract shall be grounds for refusal to board, refusal to re-board after going ashore, quarantine on board the Vessel, disembarkation, reporting to governmental or health authorities, or other steps deemed necessary in Carnival’s sole discretion under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, Guest shall not be entitled to a refund or compensation of any kind. Guest will be responsible for all related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expenses and for proper travel documentation for any port, or for departure from or arrival to the port of embarkation. Under no circumstances shall Carnival be liable for any damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Guest as a result of such denial of boarding, refusal to re-board, quarantine, disembarkation, or other steps taken by Carnival."

 

Protocols: 

https://www.carnival.com/Legal/covid-19-legal-notices/covid-19-guest-protocols

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Protocols: 

https://www.carnival.com/Legal/covid-19-legal-notices/covid-19-guest-protocols

Aren't they great! And since on the website, supersede the ticket contract, per the ticket contract.

[cruisingguy007]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Uh, hundreds or more of fully vaccinated poor souls have required hospitalization and dozens or more have died. Nothing is off the table, including masks. Per the Carnival ticket contract, masks are required.

 

While there have been thousands upon thousands of breakthrough cases, the vast majority have had little to no symptoms. There have been some hospitalizations and a few deaths to be sure but the overwhelming majority of that sub group has been in very elderly/sick patients. The overall breakthrough case percentage is still hovering at/below 1% when you factor in vaccines given. Vaccines are performing at 99%. That is pretty awesome IMO and something to be excited about and  not pointed out as doom and gloom.   

Edited May 3, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

There have been some hospitalizations and a few deaths to be sure but the overwhelming majority of that sub group has been in very elderly/sick patients.

Simply not true. The majority have been in people under 60.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

 

5 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

The overall breakthrough case percentage is still hovering at/below 1% when you factor in vaccines given. Vaccines are performing at 99%. That is pretty awesome IMO and something to be excited about and  not pointed out as doom and gloom.   

 

The vaccines are performing well. There are almost no valid reasons for not getting vaccinated. Most of the people opting out of the vaccine are doing so for invalid reasons.

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Simply not true. The majority have been in people under 60.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

 

 

The vaccines are performing well. There are almost no valid reasons for not getting vaccinated. Most of the people opting out of the vaccine are doing so for invalid reasons.

 

Total number of vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC	9,245
Females	5,827 (63%)
People aged ≥60 years	4,245 (45%)
Asymptomatic infections	2,525 (27%)
Hospitalizations*	835 (9%)
Deaths†	132 (1%)

[BlerkOne]

Just now, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Total number of vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC	9,245
Females	5,827 (63%)
People aged ≥60 years	4,245 (45%)
Asymptomatic infections	2,525 (27%)
Hospitalizations*	835 (9%)
Deaths†	132 (1%)

 

45% is NOT a majority.

[cruisingguy007]

Just now, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Total number of vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC	9,245
Females	5,827 (63%)
People aged ≥60 years	4,245 (45%)
Asymptomatic infections	2,525 (27%)
Hospitalizations*	835 (9%)
Deaths†	132 (1%)

 

There is also plenty of state data from three states who recently compiled data. Breakthrough cases effect the older/sicker overwhelmingly.