So the CDC have backed down

[njhorseman]

8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

You are right- false positive was the wrong term. Is there a term for asymptotic and vaccinated (as opposed to asymptotic and not vaccinated?)

 

I read ncl was going to be testing at each port. If so, does that mean there will be a lot of chances for positive results  just like the Yankees? 

I'm not aware of any specific term for "asymptomatic and vaccinated" . There is a term for becoming infected (symptomatic or asymptomatic) after being fully vaccinated, which is "breakthrough infection".

 

While it's certainly possible that there may be circumstances warranting additional testing such as local requirements I don't see anything in NCL's protocols saying they will be testing at each port. Do you have a reference ?

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

I'm not aware of any specific term for "asymptomatic and vaccinated" . There is a term for becoming infected (symptomatic or asymptomatic) after being fully vaccinated, which is "breakthrough infection".

 

While it's certainly possible that there may be circumstances warranting additional testing such as local requirements I don't see anything in NCL's protocols saying they will be testing at each port. Do you have a reference ?

 

 I just revisited at the NCL protocols and again, you are correct. I don't see anything where NCL is specifically requiring additional testing at each port. I likely have confused this w/ the policy of another cruise line (or local requirement). Thank you for being so kind in pointing me to accurate information. It is appreciated as we all navigate the new requirements. 

[coffeebean]

14 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The data I"m reading is suggesting that the booster is the current wild card. No one knows or can pin point how long any of the vaccine lasts and it seems to be different for different people. I've read cases where it only lasts 6 months in some individuals. This could explain the Yankees. 

The Yankees received the J&J vaccine. mRNA vaccines have much stronger  efficacy from trials and stronger in real life efficiency. 

[HarpHarp]

On 5/13/2021 at 4:02 PM, njhorseman said:

Every state but one (IIRC New Hampshire is the exception)  has a centralized state vaccine data base, called an IIS...immunization information system . Your COVID vaccination record should be available in that database.

Here's the problem with that idea. Many people did not get the vaccine where they reside.  By brother lives just a few miles from the state border, & got his vaccine in the town right across the line. people object to electronic records. When this all started, I found my old smallpox yellow vaccine card from 1971 and thought how much things have changed.

 

[CptBoatface]

I've gotmy yellow card too

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, HarpHarp said:

Here's the problem with that idea. Many people did not get the vaccine where they reside.  By brother lives just a few miles from the state border, & got his vaccine in the town right across the line. people object to electronic records. When this all started, I found my old smallpox yellow vaccine card from 1971 and thought how much things have changed.

 

 While some will be vaccinated elsewhere the IIS works quite well for the vast majority of people because they'll be getting vaccinated in their state residence. I live in NJ, which is sandwiched between NY and Pennsylvania. Lots of people work or attend college  in NY City or Philadelphia but overwhelming NJ residents get vaccinated in NJ so their records would be available.

 

Here are data to support what I've stated. As of today the NJ Department of Health is reporting 3,738,885 NJ residents have been fully vaccinated at vaccination sites in NJ while (an estimated) 165,700 NJ residents have been vaccinated out of state. So of the 3,904,585 NJ residents who are fully vaccinated, 95.7% have been vaccinated in their home state and their vaccination records should be recorded and available in the state's IIS . 

[BermudaBound2014]

Both RCL and Carnival just sent ships to Florida (Odyssey and MardiGras respectively). They are scheduled to arrive early June. Couple this with NCL relisting Alaska sailings and I think we have the first really good sign that cruising may resume from the USA before the Framework for Conditions to Sail expires.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25025-new-carnival-and-royal-caribbean-ships-are-heading-to-florida.html

 

 

On a side note: Carnival recently stated they will not require vaccination for ships departing the USA. I don't believe Royal has made an official statement of policy yet for USA departures.

Carnival Cruise Line intends to restart service in the United States without requiring passengers to have the COVID-19 vaccine, according to President Christine Duffy, in an interview on NBC Nightly News on Monday.

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25027-carnival-may-not-require-covid-19-vaccine.html

 

Today is the first day since last March that I see light at the end of the cruising shut-down tunnel. Of course, things change so rapidly I'm hesitant to get too excited. 

[IrieBajan54]

Well, looks like more light at the end of the tunnel especially for Europe vacationers. The EU is going to make it convenient and rewarding for the fully vaccinated. Don't know why this couldn't be applied to cruises as well.

 

"European Union ambassadors are set to meet on Wednesday to finalise a plan to allow fully vaccinated people to fly to Europe without quarantine or Covid testing."

 

"Ambassadors are expected to approve the proposal on Wednesday and formal adoption would follow on Thursday by EU trade ministers."

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americans-fly-europe-eu-set-150343821.html

Edited May 18, 2021 by IrieBajan54
correction

[CaptainWoody]

4 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

On a side note: Carnival recently stated they will not require vaccination for ships departing the USA.

That would make me very hesitant to book a Carnival cruise because:

a) it may have a much higher chance of being cancelled and

b) if it sails it may have to enforce all the no-fun rules we're trying to get away from (i.e. no deck chairs, gas masks at dinner with straw openings, wear your mask in your cabin if you share it with somebody else, only three people in a bar at a time, cold box meals only, etc.).

[BermudaBound2014]

5 minutes ago, CaptainWoody said:

That would make me very hesitant to book a Carnival cruise because:

a) it may have a much higher chance of being cancelled and

b) if it sails it may have to enforce all the no-fun rules we're trying to get away from (i.e. no deck chairs, gas masks at dinner with straw openings, wear your mask in your cabin if you share it with somebody else, only three people in a bar at a time, cold box meals only, etc.).

 

It also makes me nervous for the industry as a whole. I'm not sure how much more bad press the cruise industry can take. Public perception is severely damaged. Pent up demand only goes so far. We need to get this right or the whole industry could suffer. 

[CaptainWoody]

44 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

It also makes me nervous for the industry as a whole. I'm not sure how much more bad press the cruise industry can take. Public perception is severely damaged. Pent up demand only goes so far. We need to get this right or the whole industry could suffer. 

The funny thing is, that people seem to think this is binary:

 

a) 60% desperate for vaccine because they're afraid of dying from Covid and

b) 40% who don't trust the government and refuse the vaccine because they think the vaccine will kill them

 

In reality, I think there are about 10% - 20% on each extreme and the other 60% - 80% either get it because their doctor/wife/husband/employer tells them to or skip it because they just aren't worried.  I believe that a lot of these will just go get vaccinated if it's required for them to cruise.

 

Cruises are a great thing and most of us who cruise often will not lose interest just because of a new hoop or two to jump through.

[em-sk]

14 hours ago, HarpHarp said:

Here's the problem with that idea. Many people did not get the vaccine where they reside.  By brother lives just a few miles from the state border, & got his vaccine in the town right across the line. people object to electronic records. When this all started, I found my old smallpox yellow vaccine card from 1971 and thought how much things have changed.

 

 

That smallpox card is part of a system for doing this that has existed for decades and is still used today.  The World Health Organization has had a standard for what a vaccination passport looks like and a process for each country to issue one.  It is called the "International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis"  Each country then issues these.  The organization that administers the vaccine places a stamp, and certifies the vaccination was delivered.  This is what is used as proof of yellow fever vaccination for countries that requires it. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Certificate_of_Vaccination_or_Prophylaxis

Edited May 19, 2021 by em-sk

[KennyFla]

12 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 

Today is the first day since last March that I see light at the end of the cruising shut-down tunnel. Of course, things change so rapidly I'm hesitant to get too excited. 

There is no way the genie is going back in the bottle.

In Florida, we are done.  I went into a Wawa gas station yesterday, I was the only one in the store without a mask (except for employees).

 

The mask required signs are all down.  Momentum is building fast to get back to normal.  At least it is here.

[rbschultz]

13 hours ago, CaptainWoody said:

The funny thing is, that people seem to think this is binary:

 

a) 60% desperate for vaccine because they're afraid of dying from Covid and

b) 40% who don't trust the government and refuse the vaccine because they think the vaccine will kill them

 

In reality, I think there are about 10% - 20% on each extreme and the other 60% - 80% either get it because their doctor/wife/husband/employer tells them to or skip it because they just aren't worried.  I believe that a lot of these will just go get vaccinated if it's required for them to cruise.

 

Cruises are a great thing and most of us who cruise often will not lose interest just because of a new hoop or two to jump through.

 

I definitely agree those binaries aren't applicable, but I'd argue there are more people on the extremes and that the middle segment is the group of "I just want to get back to living like normal" (whether getting back to normal means saying no to the vaccine and living with the consequences whatever that may be OR getting the vaccine so they can proceed with living as they were prior to the pandemic [there are two sides to this middle group of people])

Edited May 19, 2021 by rbschultz

[coffeebean]

14 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

It also makes me nervous for the industry as a whole. I'm not sure how much more bad press the cruise industry can take. Public perception is severely damaged. Pent up demand only goes so far. We need to get this right or the whole industry could suffer. 

Does DeSantis realize this?

[coffeebean]

On 5/16/2021 at 3:23 PM, ChutChut said:

Actually, there isn't a big difference in immunity as the JnJ trials were done later and addressed Covid variants - neither Moderna nor Pfizer addressed variants. So if you eliminate the variants, the vaccines are pretty much equal.

Then why do I keep hearing how the mRNA vaccines are protective against the variants that are circulating at this time? This was also stated by the CDC and why they are lifting mask mandates for vaccinated people outdoors and indoors. I know I heard the CDC state that the vaccines are protective against the variants. Or......did I dream that?

[KennyFla]

Does not look like RC is requiring vaccine passports:

 

Royal Caribbean finalized a port agreement with Port Canaveral so it can start test cruises

 

Royal Caribbean Group Vice President of Worldwide Operations, Captain Hernan Zini, spoke on Wednesday about Royal Caribbean Group's work to get its ships closer to be able to conduct test and revenue cruises.

 

Once that once Florida signs off on the plan, it can be submitted to the CDC. And once the CDC accepts the agreement, the Royal Caribbean group can make an application to the CDC to begin those test cruises.

 

These port agreements are part of the Phase 2A of the CSO and need to be signed by executives from the cruise line, as well as port and state health authorities, as will as be approved by the CDC.  The agreement explains what the cruise terminal would do in the case of Covid-19 cases on a cruise ship, as well as how it intends to keep the cruise terminal and gangways sanitized.

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

I suspect Carnival won't be far behind. I posted this in another thread; Both Royal and Carnival re-routed two ships last week to head specifically to Port Canaveral (Odyssey and Mardi Gras) scheduled arrival early June.

 

 Carnival has already stated they will not be requiring vaccines. I'm not sure if that means just Carnival Ships or the entire CCL Brand (Princess, HAL, Costa, etc.....). It is likely that whatever Royal does, Celebrity isn't far behind since they are both part of the Royal Caribbean Group.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25025-new-carnival-and-royal-caribbean-ships-are-heading-to-florida.html

 

[harkinmr]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

He is not going to take the pressure off the CDC until they approach something reasonable on cruises.  It is working, look how much movement there has been in the last 2 weeks.

 

Other businesses here, such as Publix, have waived restrictions if you are vaccinated.  It is the honor system.  If you are not, or feel like you should, you can wear a mask and distance.  We are not a police state.

 

That being said, there are some special considerations to consider on a cruise ship.  I don't know exactly how this will happen in July, but plenty of cruises are happening without needing to be vaccinated.

 

One thing we have seen from DeSantis so far is that he uses common sense.  I think when the time comes it will be resolved.

Common sense is not his forte. Politics is.  You are giving him way too much credit for movement by the CDC. He is just a thorn in their side and they have been working with the cruise lines for over a month now despite his antics.  And your “police state” comment fully gives away your perspective. 

[harkinmr]

36 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Does not look like RC is requiring vaccine passports:

 

Royal Caribbean finalized a port agreement with Port Canaveral so it can start test cruises

 

Royal Caribbean Group Vice President of Worldwide Operations, Captain Hernan Zini, spoke on Wednesday about Royal Caribbean Group's work to get its ships closer to be able to conduct test and revenue cruises.

 

Once that once Florida signs off on the plan, it can be submitted to the CDC. And once the CDC accepts the agreement, the Royal Caribbean group can make an application to the CDC to begin those test cruises.

 

These port agreements are part of the Phase 2A of the CSO and need to be signed by executives from the cruise line, as well as port and state health authorities, as will as be approved by the CDC.  The agreement explains what the cruise terminal would do in the case of Covid-19 cases on a cruise ship, as well as how it intends to keep the cruise terminal and gangways sanitized.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I suspect Carnival won't be far behind. I posted this in another thread; Both Royal and Carnival re-routed two ships last week to head specifically to Port Canaveral (Odyssey and Mardi Gras) scheduled arrival early June.

 

 Carnival has already stated they will not be requiring vaccines. I'm not sure if that means just Carnival Ships or the entire CCL Brand (Princess, HAL, Costa, etc.....). It is likely that whatever Royal does, Celebrity isn't far behind since they are both part of the Royal Caribbean Group.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25025-new-carnival-and-royal-caribbean-ships-are-heading-to-florida.html

 

An unfortunate choice if RCL and Carnival are not going with vaccinated cruises.  Lots of testing and protocols required and risks of an outbreak on board. Won’t be much fun for cruisers and could upset progress for the industry. But that’s their call and they will have to live with the consequences. 

[mpdog42]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:37 AM, cscurlock said:

They will probably have permission to request vaccination verification when you sign up for a cruise and they will contact the relevant authority to verify.  You won't need too bring cards or anything.  If you don't approve the verification then they will cancel your reservation.  So no fake cards etc that will not be something used for crossing too verify.  

Not going to happen!!

[mpdog42]

20 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Just out of curiosity, where do you live?

If the poster tells the truth...I will go with "Give me a blue state for 1000 Alex"😁

Edited May 20, 2021 by mpdog42
ADD

[graphicguy]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:11 PM, HarpHarp said:

Here's the problem with that idea. Many people did not get the vaccine where they reside.  By brother lives just a few miles from the state border, & got his vaccine in the town right across the line. people object to electronic records. When this all started, I found my old smallpox yellow vaccine card from 1971 and thought how much things have changed.

 

I got my first Pfizer shot in northern Kentucky as that's where the sign up told me to go based on my zip code.  However, I live in Ohio.  So, they gave me the 2nd Pfizer shot in Ohio.  That is stipulated on my vaccine card.  And, it's part of my CDC record, too.  The number of the dose, and the location it was administered are all on my vaccine card.

 

I don't see where the location of the dose administered would be a problem, as I have a record of both doses, just in two different states.

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, mpdog42 said:

If the poster tells the truth...I will go with "Give me a blue state for 1000 Alex"😁

We have a lot of transplants.  But we are working on moving them out of the darkside.  :)

[HarpHarp]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I got my first Pfizer shot in northern Kentucky as that's where the sign up told me to go based on my zip code.  However, I live in Ohio.  So, they gave me the 2nd Pfizer shot in Ohio.  That is stipulated on my vaccine card.  And, it's part of my CDC record, too.  The number of the dose, and the location it was administered are all on my vaccine card.

 

I don't see where the location of the dose administered would be a problem, as I have a record of both doses, just in two different states.

Not a problem, except if NCL only checks the database in the state where you reside. A national database seems to be a non-starter and cards are being forged left & right.