Updated Mask Guidance from CDC

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

3 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

I do expect alot better than what we've been getting recently when the government is trying to force people to wear around a face diaper. Get real.

"face diaper"  

 

"get real"

 

Interesting, the dialog we have here!

 

I will say, I have more confidence in the government as it stands now, than I did a year, or two, or three, ago. It's always going to be a work in progress (well, two steps forward, perhaps a few back)

 

[Radiioman46]

21 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I agree that is probably the case, if the majority of cruisers are vaxxed, and everyone plays by the rules of those protocols, based on my lack of epidemiological studies.

 

But that's just it - I'm not an expert.  I also don't trust everyone to do the right thing.  Most people, on average, will.  But it is almost a guarantee that someone won't.

 

If the cruise line can't check for vax status, and over 50% of a particular cruise is non-vaxxed (because random groups of populations rarely match the overall average distributions), and someone carries it onboard, and no-one wears masks because everyone assumes everyone else is fully vaxxed, what are the likely implications?

 

 

It isn't that I think every cruise will be a headline-maker, but it only takes one...

 

You do realize that the only breakouts that occurred were at the very beginning of Covid19, and the cruise ships had no mitigation policies in place, for obvious reasons. 

 

You should also remember that for the first year there were no vaccinations.

 

You should also remember, since this all started, more than 98% of all US citizens did not die from Covid19.

Today about 35% of the population is fully vaccinated, and all future cruises will have a full set of mitigation protocols in place, all passengers on board, whether vaccinated or not, will be tested negative. 

 

The difference between any cruise ship sailing today vs the Diamond Princess back then, when it all started, is extremely large. So, please put your worries aside and enjoy sailing!  

Edited May 14, 2021 by Radiioman46

[ProgRockCruiser]

5 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

Btw adding ridiculous statements at the end of your comment doesn't convince anyone.

It was an analogy.  Some people find them useful.

 

And I won't mask up where I am not required to by law or by rule (e.g. my workplace still requires them as of today, hopefully that will change shortly), because I don't need to (because I am vaxxed), and I understand the general conditions and overall science.

 

That doesn't stop me from understanding how/why masks work (and when they aren't useful).

 

Frankly, I think it is dumb the CDC still says mask are required even for the vaccinated on airplanes and such.  I agree with others that they are slowly reflecting reality in their mask guidance, but I do think they could move faster and not so "committee-like".

[SNJCruisers]

14 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

 

Mask up if you want.. normal people won't be doing it anymore 

How about if your local supermarket requires them?  Will you just be defiant and flip them the proverbial bird?

[crewsweeper]

12 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Changing recommendations based on new information seems appropriate to me. This is the government we're talking about here - so don't expect perfection!

 

Tom

But we do expect a bit more timeliness.  The CDC has known since last fall, if not earlier, that masks outside were unnecessary.  The change they provided yesterday was known to be coming back in early April.  It' still confusion instead of clear cut guidelines and policies.  And the delays haven't really been backed by science.  The 10% probability of getting COVID outside without a mask for anyone was pulled out of their rears.  The study they used indicated 1% or less.

[IntrepidFromDC]

4 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

You should also remember, since this all started, more than 98% of all US citizens did not die from Covid19.

The difference between any cruise ship sailing today vs the Diamond Princess back then, when it all started, is extremely large. So, please put your worries aside and enjoy sailing!  

(330,000,000-600,000)/330,000,000= 99.82% did not die from Covid.  Agreed, masks be damned!

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

8 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

I do expect alot better than what we've been getting recently when the government is trying to force people to wear around a face diaper. Get real.

You said yourself in circa April 2020 that this was a cold; going away.  Close to 600k Americans dead in that 12 month period since only convinces you that they are old or not “my party”.  Can’t imagine how you live with yourself.

[jperry2011]

10 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

It was an analogy.  Some people find them useful.

 

And I won't mask up where I am not required to by law or by rule (e.g. my workplace still requires them as of today, hopefully that will change shortly), because I don't need to (because I am vaxxed), and I understand the general conditions and overall science.

 

That doesn't stop me from understanding how/why masks work (and when they aren't useful).

 

Frankly, I think it is dumb the CDC still says mask are required even for the vaccinated on airplanes and such.  I agree with others that they are slowly reflecting reality in their mask guidance, but I do think they could move faster and not so "committee-like".

I can agree with that.

[tallnthensome]

25 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Don't feed the kool aid drinkers.  Waste of time.  I am hoping that they split the cruises into vaccinated and non vaccinated and then these people can go on whatever applies to them.  Then everyone can be happy.  Once an outbreak occurs and the whole ship gets quarantined we will see how they feel.

Correct .... Trying to explain anything to them is a waste of time. They don’t understand. It is a mathematical certainty that at some point a passenger who was too afraid to get the vaccine will become infected on a cruise, become very ill, and force the ship to change course or return to the previous port to unload this passenger that requires hospitalization..... Thus affecting EVERYONES cruise ..... This is way over their tinfoil heads. 

[jperry2011]

7 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

How about if your local supermarket requires them?  Will you just be defiant and flip them the proverbial bird?

Idk if this is surprising to you but most local supermarkets in towns have very few masked customers. As I said before normal people understand this is a political game at this point.

[jperry2011]

5 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

You said yourself in circa April 2020 that this was a cold; going away.  Close to 600k Americans dead in that 12 month period since only convinces you that they are old or not “my party”.  Can’t imagine how you live with yourself.

I live great. I live in a world where freedom matters. Where I believe people can think for themselves. 

 

If you want to get into the numbers game then riddle me this.. 

How did the flu cases drop from 50+ million to under 10,000 this year?! What could have possibly happened?

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, tallnthensome said:

Correct .... Trying to explain anything to them is a waste of time. They don’t understand. It is a mathematical certainty that at some point a passenger who was too afraid to get the vaccine will become infected on a cruise, become very ill, and force the ship to change course or return to the previous port to unload this passenger that requires hospitalization..... Thus affecting EVERYONES cruise ..... This is way over their tinfoil heads. 

 

It'll be inconvenient but it will serve as a public service announcement and a story that will carry. There will be some of these type stories early on but it's part of the process. Don't sweat the small stuff and control the controllable, everything else will work itself out naturally in its own time. Being frustrated over something you can't change is a waste of energy.   

[TNcruising02]

35 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I agree that is probably the case, if the majority of cruisers are vaxxed, and everyone plays by the rules of those protocols, based on my lack of epidemiological studies.

 

But that's just it - I'm not an expert.  I also don't trust everyone to do the right thing.  Most people, on average, will.  But it is almost a guarantee that someone won't.

 

If the cruise line can't check for vax status, and over 50% of a particular cruise is non-vaxxed (because random groups of populations rarely match the overall average distributions), and someone carries it onboard, and no-one wears masks because everyone assumes everyone else is fully vaxxed, what are the likely implications?

 

 

It isn't that I think every cruise will be a headline-maker, but it only takes one...

 

Do you actually think 50% of cruisers will show fraudulent vaccination cards for their family to cruise? I do not think that will happen. As long as the cruise lines have the passengers sign a form attesting to the truth of their vaccination information, it will be a criminal offense. I do not think the average person will choose to commit a crime in order to cruise.  They will simply choose a cruise that doesn't require proof of vaccinations. Either way, the covid threat on a cruise ship will be almost non-existent with all of the protections in place.

[zipper1]

22 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

"face diaper"  

 

"get real"

 

Interesting, the dialog we have here!

 

I will say, I have more confidence in the government as it stands now, than I did a year, or two, or three, ago. It's always going to be a work in progress (well, two steps forward, perhaps a few back)

 

And we are only at the beginning of the few steps back.

Edited May 14, 2021 by zipper1
spelling

[ProgRockCruiser]

Just now, TNcruising02 said:

Do you actually think 50% of cruisers will show fraudulent vaccination cards for their family to cruise?

No, I think it is possible that proof of vaccination will not be permitted if certain folks get their way, and testing will be argued as "unconstitutional", etc, resulting in just a bunch of people walking onto a ship, with only the obviously symptomatic from being stopped.  And that there is a high probability that eventually there will be a pseudo-random selection of pax on board a cruise where a large cohort of them will not be vaccinated.

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Do you actually think 50% of cruisers will show fraudulent vaccination cards for their family to cruise? I do not think that will happen. As long as the cruise lines have the passengers sign a form attesting to the truth of their vaccination information, it will be a criminal offense. I do not think the average person will choose to commit a crime in order to cruise.  They will simply choose a cruise that doesn't require proof of vaccinations. Either way, the covid threat on a cruise ship will be almost non-existent with all of the protections in place.

 

I agree. It won't be a big problem. It will be less than 10% (max), probably a lot less than that in reality. It will really depend on the cruise origination state. Some will be higher than others but I don't think it will be huge numbers who won't take the free travel insurance jab. 

[d12j28]

27 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Changing recommendations based on new information seems appropriate to me. This is the government we're talking about here - so don't expect perfection!

 

Tom

While I agree that changing based on new information would be appropriate, exactly what information has changed?

 

And, not directed at you Tom, the name calling on this forum is quite ridiculous. Amazing how some people always have to do that when they don't agree with someone and it sure seems to be one side more often than not. It takes away from the point they are actually trying to make when acting like a 2 year old.

[TNcruising02]

Just now, ProgRockCruiser said:

No, I think it is possible that proof of vaccination will not be permitted if certain folks get their way, and testing will be argued as "unconstitutional", etc, resulting in just a bunch of people walking onto a ship, with only the obviously symptomatic from being stopped.  And that there is a high probability that eventually there will be a pseudo-random selection of pax on board a cruise where a large cohort of them will not be vaccinated.

I just don't think that will be the case. I think they will probably have vaccinated cruises and cruises for everyone. I really think most cruisers will be vaccinated. People who like to travel are more likely to protect themselves, in my opinion.  I think the worry about unvaccinated people is worry for nothing.

Several of my relatives said they would never get the vaccine, but now most are talking about getting Pfizer.  As time goes on, more people will get vaccinated and everything will be ok. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

Just now, d12j28 said:

While I agree that changing based on new information would be appropriate, exactly what information has changed?

My observations of three big ones:

 

COVID-19 is not spread as easily as thought via surfaces.  (At first it was thought that could be a primary vector.)

 

N95 masks are not required by the vast majority of the population, a simple two-layer cloth/fabric mask will suffice. (It turns out it is more practical for the infected person to wear the mask to minimize spread via droplets vs the non-infected wearing a "supermask".  The CDC did not recommend masking up early on to avoid the mass-panic buying of medical grade masks needed by front line workers.  And as we saw this past week, we see what stupid panic-buying fools the general public can be.)

 

Those who are vaccinated have a very low chance of getting any serious symptoms on the off-chance they do get infected, and a very very low chance of infecting others, especially if asymptomatic.  (At first it wasn't know how well the vaccines worked at stopping the spread.)

[d12j28]

11 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

My observations of three big ones:

 

COVID-19 is not spread as easily as thought via surfaces.  (At first it was thought that could be a primary vector.)

 

N95 masks are not required by the vast majority of the population, a simple two-layer cloth/fabric mask will suffice. (It turns out it is more practical for the infected person to wear the mask to minimize spread via droplets vs the non-infected wearing a "supermask".  The CDC did not recommend masking up early on to avoid the mass-panic buying of medical grade masks needed by front line workers.  And as we saw this past week, we see what stupid panic-buying fools the general public can be.)

 

Those who are vaccinated have a very low chance of getting any serious symptoms on the off-chance they do get infected, and a very very low chance of infecting others, especially if asymptomatic.  (At first it wasn't know how well the vaccines worked at stopping the spread.)

None of those are really new information. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

4 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

And the flu cases dropped by 50 million 🤣🤣 yep that's logical.. I have a better answer. They stopped testing for the flu. Covid test if you stubbed your toe, covid test if you broke your arm. Covid test this covid test that. A ton of people had the flu then were classified as covid. Wreck your car and test positive it was a covid death.

I usually get a couple of bad colds per year, and a few sniffly-colds on top of that, and the flu every three years or so.  I haven't had a cold or the flu since we started masking up, social distancing, and staying home.  The flu could have just been a fluke year - the colds not so much.  As best as I can remember, no-one I know has had a cold or the flu in that same time span.  Those are very unusual statistics.

 

Based on my sphere of friends & associates alone, I have seen a massive drop in flu cases.  

 

And I won't get into the details of how the flu vector from Asia would have been severely hampered by the lower travel rates and protocols observed while flying.

 

"Wreck your car and test positive it was a covid death."

 

Lots and lots of supposed anecdotes, none of which have been borne out to be statistically significant.  Yes, things got mis-categorized - it happens outside of a pandemic too.  It is called human error.

 

You don't want to "believe" in analytical science, OK.  But don't be surprised when you find out others disagree.

[ProgRockCruiser]

Just now, d12j28 said:

None of those are really new information. 

You didn't specify a timeline.  I gave three examples of info shifting over the course of the pandemic.

 

So, define a timeline of where you have observed a change that you'd like explained by new info (or lack thereof).

[TNcruising02]

People will never agree on this. There are those who believe in strict lockdowns and nearly 24/7 mask wearing and those who believe in the freedom for people to decide their own risks and act accordingly.  Debates from both sides usually do not change anyone's mind.

 

People who are concerned about getting covid can protect themselves by getting a vaccination instead of demanding others wear masks to protect them. People who aren't concerned about getting covid can accept the risk.  Now that vaccines are available to those who want them, trying to micro manage other people isn't necessary any more.  Let people live their lives and take care of your own life.

My husband and I got the vaccine. We are hoping other family members will do the same, but it's their decision.

Edited May 14, 2021 by TNcruising02

[d12j28]

8 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

You didn't specify a timeline.  I gave three examples of info shifting over the course of the pandemic.

 

So, define a timeline of where you have observed a change that you'd like explained by new info (or lack thereof).

Sorry Prog, I was referring to the new guide lines from the CDC and Tom saying change is good with new info. Everything gets lost in between the two year olds name calling. 

 

What exactly is the new information the CDC has that people (vaccinated) don't have to wear masks now vs say last month. 

[Joebucks]

48 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

People got flu shots, people wore masks, people washed their hands, Used hand sanitizer, social distanced, worked from home , and didn’t get together .... Anymore silly questions or was that too hard to figure out on your own? Same safety rules for Covid applied to the seasonal flu. Worked damm great.

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.