Per Michael Bayley, Some CSO Updates

[sandebeach]

Late last night we received multiple updates to the CSO from the CDC.  All reflect the significant progress made with the vaccines.  Reading the updates last night and this morning give me increased optimism.  Today the light at the end of this long dark tunnel is bright.  One step at a time !

[sandebeach]

But I don’t see updates on the CDC page?

[Biker19]

Just now, sandebeach said:

But I don’t see updates on the CDC page?

They don't usually update on a weekend. 

[smokeybandit]

The updates are there. They just added some testing guidance.  Antigen tests are now accepted as well as recent covid recovery documentation.

[sandebeach]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The updates are there. They just added some testing guidance.  Antigen tests are now accepted as well as recent covid recovery documentation.

I see something that I think is new. Under Embarkation and Disembarkation Testing, it says Not Applicable for Fully Vaccinated Passengers, including Fully Vaccinated doing a Back to Back sailing.  

[livingonthebeach]

8 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

I see something that I think is new. Under Embarkation and Disembarkation Testing, it says Not Applicable for Fully Vaccinated Passengers, including Fully Vaccinated doing a Back to Back sailing.  

 

Good news!  Thanks for sharing. 

[takeabreath3]

That is great news.  I'm standing at the tunnel opening waiting on that light.  I have my first B2B scheduled for October and have been sweating it, now I can breath a huge sigh of relief.

 

.  

[paulh84]

Updates were posted in the doc. Summary is at the top of the page. It appears that testing is not required for fully vaccinated pax. B2B are alllowed w/o tests also (assuming fully vaxxed).

 

Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

Screening Testing of All Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

	Not Fully Vaccinated Passengers	Fully Vaccinated Passengers
Embarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable*
Disembarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable
Back-to-Back Sailing¥ Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable

Edited May 15, 2021 by paulh84

[Blizzard54]

I feel better about my B2B's coming up this fall.

 

[100viper]

8 hours ago, paulh84 said:

Updates were posted in the doc. Summary is at the top of the page. It appears that testing is not required for fully vaccinated pax. B2B are alllowed w/o tests also (assuming fully vaxxed).

 

Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

Screening Testing of All Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

	Not Fully Vaccinated Passengers	Fully Vaccinated Passengers
Embarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable*
Disembarkation Day Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable
Back-to-Back Sailing¥ Testing	Viral (NAAT or antigen)	Not Applicable

Good news! I hate the COVID test. Perks of being vaccinated. 

[lazydayz]

37 minutes ago, 100viper said:

Good news! I hate the COVID test. Perks of being vaccinated. 

Exactly.  I like carrots a lot better than sticks.  

[NKS50]

Is there anything about sailings that are longer than 7 nights?

[shutterbug63]

It's going to be interesting to see how they verify whether or not someone is truly fully vaccinated.  The CDC cards we have are honestly kind of flimsy and don't look like they'd be hard to duplicate. 

[nyc12345]

5 minutes ago, shutterbug63 said:

It's going to be interesting to see how they verify whether or not someone is truly fully vaccinated.  The CDC cards we have are honestly kind of flimsy and don't look like they'd be hard to duplicate. 

 

Agreed.  Some people bought fake/blank card and intend to fake their vaccination status.  If there is no way to verify this information, not sure how that is going to work...

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

5 minutes ago, shutterbug63 said:

It's going to be interesting to see how they verify whether or not someone is truly fully vaccinated.  The CDC cards we have are honestly kind of flimsy and don't look like they'd be hard to duplicate. 

 

I definitely share your concern that it will be important for cruise lines to find a way to determine whether or not someone is truly vaccinated.

 

It is easy to duplicate/fake the vaccine cards on their surface, but faking a manufacturer, lot number, vaccine provider, and date of dose(s) will be very difficult. While it may be easy for a passenger to slip through the cruise terminal showing a fake card, once the cruise line does further inspection on the back end during and/or after the cruise, they can verify the hard-to-fake entries on the card.

 

If a passenger is found to have shown a fake card, the cruise line can then impose hefty penalties, including but not limited to pursuing legal action (perhaps getting the feds involved) and lifetime bans. Should an outbreak occur and the cruise line incurs financial damages, they could even make the fake cardholder partially liable via a passenger agreement that they sign before boarding.

 

With all this in mind, I highly doubt that anyone would try to fake their way through in the first place. The risk is just too high.

[smokeybandit]

I think the concerns over fake vax cards are very overstated.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, nyc12345 said:

 

Agreed.  Some people bought fake/blank card and intend to fake their vaccination status.  If there is no way to verify this information, not sure how that is going to work...

 

They might just have to rely on the honor system.  I have to believe that the vast majority of people are honest.  

 

The public health questionnaire that we had to sign before boarding in the past was not verified nor required proof.  

[DallasGuy75219]

16 minutes ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

With all this in mind, I highly doubt that anyone would try to fake their way through in the first place. The risk is just too high.

I disagree. The anti-vaxxers/COVID deniers live in their own reality and I don't believe have thought/will think the potential consequences through should they test positive onboard after supposedly being vaccinated.

 

Even if the CDC doesn't have jurisdiction over the sailing you can bet they'll be interested in a breakthrough case on a supposedly fully vaccinated cruise and will quickly be able to determine the vaccine record is fake/fraudulent. 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

I definitely share your concern that it will be important for cruise lines to find a way to determine whether or not someone is truly vaccinated.

 

It is easy to duplicate/fake the vaccine cards on their surface, but faking a manufacturer, lot number, vaccine provider, and date of dose(s) will be very difficult. While it may be easy for a passenger to slip through the cruise terminal showing a fake card, once the cruise line does further inspection on the back end during and/or after the cruise, they can verify the hard-to-fake entries on the card.

 

If a passenger is found to have shown a fake card, the cruise line can then impose hefty penalties, including but not limited to pursuing legal action (perhaps getting the feds involved) and lifetime bans. Should an outbreak occur and the cruise line incurs financial damages, they could even make the fake cardholder partially liable via a passenger agreement that they sign before boarding.

 

With all this in mind, I highly doubt that anyone would try to fake their way through in the first place. The risk is just too high.

With whom do you suggest they cruise lines confirm this information? 
What health authority will share this information with a private third party?
 

[Russ Lomas]

3 hours ago, NKS50 said:

Is there anything about sailings that are longer than 7 nights?

I was wondering the same thing.  It would be strange to ban 8-day cruises, yet permit people to do bac-to-back 7-day cruises totaling 14 days on the same ship in a row.

[WeMissSeaView]

15 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

I was wondering the same thing.  It would be strange to ban 8-day cruises, yet permit people to do bac-to-back 7-day cruises totaling 14 days on the same ship in a row.

I agree.  I feel that my 9 day cruise in October has a good chance now.

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

With whom do you suggest they cruise lines confirm this information? 
What health authority will share this information with a private third party?
 

 

Good questions. What I'm about to say is all speculation. We will never know for sure how cruise lines will verify vaccination cards, but I can imagine some scenarios in which a cruise line can reliably procure information from health authorities/manufacturers/providers:

 

Reputation

Governmental Forces

The CDC, federal government, and other legal authorities have a vested interest in making sure their government documents are not being used illegitimately. I have already linked an article where the feds are already cracking down on people buying, manufacturing, or using fake vaccination cards. What would trigger their cooperation is an outbreak on a "fully vaccinated" cruise ship sailing or even a handful of cases that don't constitute a technical outbreak. If it's an outbreak, the feds and the CDC will come knocking to see if everyone was truly vaccinated. At that point, what happens next is out of the cruise lines' hands. If it was a handful of cases that ended up causing some financial damages for the cruise line (e.g., vaccinated passengers using this an an opportunity to complain and get a refund/FCC, Caribbean ports turning away cruise ships, etc.), the cruise line will want to find someone to blame, and the primary culprits are the handful "vaccinated" passengers that got infected. The cruise line will then pursue legal action and get the feds involved to check vaccination cards.

 

Manufacturers/Providers

Out of convenience and/or self-interest, entities like Pfizer and CVS might willingly work with the cruise lines to make sure passengers aren't faking lot numbers or dose providers on their cards. The last thing these Fortune 500 companies want is to send the message that the data they are putting on legitimate vaccination cards can easily be forged. They also certainly don't want to be associated with dishonest anti-vaxxers that are using their products/namesake to potentially cause biological harm on a cruise ship vacation. I'm not a legal expert, but if the feds came knocking or if the cruise line pursued legal action/tipped the "vaccinated" infected passengers to the feds, these entities might be forced to provide this data anyway in the form of a subpoena.

 

Triggers

Just to reiterate, whether it's a handful of cases or a technical outbreak, there are paths in which the fakers can and will get found out. The best case scenario for the fakers is that no cases appear onboard; otherwise, the ball gets rolling to get them found out. The cruise line does not necessarily need to verify a single vaccination card if a cruise goes smoothly, but if they do, it will only be the cards of the infected that will be put under a microscope.

Edited May 16, 2021 by BOOKBOOKBOOK

[Merion_Mom]

6 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

I definitely share your concern that it will be important for cruise lines to find a way to determine whether or not someone is truly vaccinated.

 

It is easy to duplicate/fake the vaccine cards on their surface, but faking a manufacturer, lot number, vaccine provider, and date of dose(s) will be very difficult. While it may be easy for a passenger to slip through the cruise terminal showing a fake card, once the cruise line does further inspection on the back end during and/or after the cruise, they can verify the hard-to-fake entries on the card.

 

 

 

My extremely legitimate and genuine vaccine card does not have the lot number on it.

[3kidsncats]

41 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

My extremely legitimate and genuine vaccine card does not have the lot number on it.

The provider that administered the vaccine will have that info — if the type of scenario were to play out as BookBookBook laid out, your info could be verified.  Many of the cards also have that info (the cards in our family have it).  
 

I do think people will try to use fake cards, without really thinking about potential consequences.  Whether it ends up coming back to haunt them, I don’t know, but it’s a real possibility imo.  

[Iamcruzin]

There was a report on the news a week or two ago that fake vaccine cards were selling for $89 on the street.