Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Is Crafting An Exemption For Cruise Lines To His ‘Vaccine Passport’ Ban

[AdoraBelle]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=62a45f395ed5
 

“On a call with travel agents last Thursday, Dondra Ritzenthaler, senior VP of sales, trade support and service at Celebrity Cruises, discussed “the elephant in the room,” according a scoop in the unofficial Royal Caribbean Blog, which is not affiliated with the cruise line. The blog’s founder, Matt Hochberg, was not on the call but obtained an audio recording, which he shared with Forbes.

In the clip, the Celebrity Cruises executive is heard outlining how DeSantis is working with the largest cruise lines — Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line — to find a workaround. When the governor came out with his prohibition against vaccine verifications, “he was talking about restaurants, bars, hotels, Disney, places that weren’t cruise ships — because at the time, cruise ships weren’t open yet,” explained Ritzenthaler. “And we’re ironing out a statement that will articulate how cruising will be different than [being] in the state.”

Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.”

Edited May 30, 2021 by AdoraBelle

[rkacruiser]

20 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.”

 

The Governor blinked.  

[iamaqt2]

47 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=62a45f395ed5
 

“On a call with travel agents last Thursday, Dondra Ritzenthaler, senior VP of sales, trade support and service at Celebrity Cruises, discussed “the elephant in the room,” according a scoop in the unofficial Royal Caribbean Blog, which is not affiliated with the cruise line. The blog’s founder, Matt Hochberg, was not on the call but obtained an audio recording, which he shared with Forbes.

In the clip, the Celebrity Cruises executive is heard outlining how DeSantis is working with the largest cruise lines — Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line — to find a workaround. When the governor came out with his prohibition against vaccine verifications, “he was talking about restaurants, bars, hotels, Disney, places that weren’t cruise ships — because at the time, cruise ships weren’t open yet,” explained Ritzenthaler. “And we’re ironing out a statement that will articulate how cruising will be different than [being] in the state.”

Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.”

That's hilarious considering that just two days ago he was still digging in his heels on cruise line mandated vaccines.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-desantis-cruise-ships-vaccine-passports-20210528-n7jed5ukszchpizifs534iorhi-story.html

[cbfb]

Yes!!!! I won’t say anything else because I don’t want to make it political but, yes!!! 

[AbbyCruiser45]

Is this the thread where we say, "You were right, pee?" 😄

[AdoraBelle]

Congrats to those of you on that first Edge sailing. I opted to just take my money out of FL for now, but it does mean I don’t cruise till August. (And only then if NCL can get their staffing act together.)

 

Enjoy the win.

[39august]

The ship can't be in "international waters" when it is in a Florida port.  But I'm sure they will come up with something. 

[cscurlock]

20 minutes ago, 39august said:

The ship can't be in "international waters" when it is in a Florida port.  But I'm sure they will come up with something. 

What happens on the inside of the ship can only only be regulated by the federal government unless their is a danger to the state in some way even at port.   The only exception to the rule is with alcohol sales which is laid out in the constitution specifically for foreign flagged ships.  Anything before the gangway is under state control.  Anything after that the congress makes the rules.  This is specifically laid out in previous litigation and the commerce clause.  So if the requirement to board the vessel comes from inside the ship the state has zero authority and cant interfere or it would go against separation of powers i.e. unconstitutional.  This is something that should have been fairly obvious for someone who went to an Ivy league school.

Edited May 30, 2021 by cscurlock

[Fouremco]

33 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.”

The past time I checked, Port Everglades was located on the Stranahan River, some 12 nautical miles from international waters. That must be one hell of a long gangplank that Ritzenthaler envisions Celebrity using for future boarding.

[Ken the cruiser]

57 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

What happens on the inside of the ship can only only be regulated by the federal government unless their is a danger to the state in some way even at port.   The only exception to the rule is with alcohol sales which is laid out in the constitution specifically for foreign flagged ships.  Anything before the gangway is under state control.  Anything after that the congress makes the rules.  This is specifically laid out in previous litigation and the commerce clause.  So if the requirement to board the vessel comes from inside the ship the state has zero authority and cant interfere or it would go against separation of powers i.e. unconstitutional.  This is something that should have been fairly obvious for someone who went to an Ivy league school.

A possible check-in scenario seems to be starting to emerge (in my mind) IF what you say proves to be true. Today, we watched the NCL Embark - The Series "Great Cruise Comeback" (Ep. 1) and in it NCL noted that everyone will be required to check-in online, no exceptions, to include providing a "selfie" and any other pertinent information, PRIOR to arriving at the terminal. If someone doesn't do the online check-in prior to arrival, they will not be allowed to even enter the terminal. Here's a link to the NCL Embark website. Just look for the Embark - The Series "Great Cruise Comeback" (Ep. 1) entry once you pull it up:

 

NCL Embark

 

Now, if Celebrity follows a similar path and requires you to also check-in prior to arriving at the terminal, to include providing a selfie, then doing a facial recognition check as well as a temperature check to complete the initial phase of the check-in process once you arrive at the terminal should be relatively quick. Then it's off to the ship once your designated boarding time arrives. Once you're onboard, you'll complete the check-in process to include providing proof you are fully vaccinated as well as providing any other information they might require.

 

At least that's how's it's starting to play out in my mind. But, hopefully, we'll find out what's really going to happen this coming week. One can hope anyway. 😎

Edited May 30, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[cscurlock]

13 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

A possible check-in scenario seems to be starting to emerge (in my mind) IF what you say proves to be true. Today, we watched the NCL Embark - The Series "Great Cruise Comeback" (Ep. 1) and in it NCL noted that everyone will be required to check-in online, no exceptions, to include providing a "selfie" and any other pertinent information, PRIOR to arriving at the terminal. If someone doesn't do the online check-in prior to arrival, they will not be allowed to even enter the terminal. Here's a link to the NCL Embark website. Just look for the Embark - The Series "Great Cruise Comeback" (Ep. 1) entry once you pull it up:

 

NCL Embark

 

Now, if Celebrity follows a similar path and requires you to also check-in prior to arriving at the terminal, to include providing a selfie, then doing a facial recognition check as well as a temperature check to complete the initial phase of the check-in process once you arrive at the terminal should be relatively quick. Then it's off to the ship once your designated boarding time arrives. Once you're onboard, you'll complete the check-in process to include providing proof you are fully vaccinated as well as providing any other information they might require.

 

At least that's how's it's starting to play out in my mind. But, hopefully, we'll find out what's really going to happen this coming week. One can hope anyway. 😎

Someone posted something they received in the mail regarding the July cruises for Celebrity and it seems that they will require you to upload the vaccine requirement when you online check in or earlier.  If you don't then your cruise is cancelled and refunded.  

[Ken the cruiser]

7 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Someone posted something they received in the mail regarding the July cruises for Celebrity and it seems that they will require you to upload the vaccine requirement when you online check in or earlier.  If you don't then your cruise is cancelled and refunded.  

We have a B2B2B on the Edge starting in late July and haven't received anything like that yet. Maybe it was for the Millennium out of St Maarten.

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

We have a B2B2B on the Edge starting in late July and haven't received anything like that yet. Maybe it was for the Millennium out of St Maarten.

it could be possibly, but why would they change the process if its already been designed and built for US cruises since its online?

[Lunesse]

1 hour ago, 39august said:

The ship can't be in "international waters" when it is in a Florida port.  But I'm sure they will come up with something. 

Reminds me of the history of river boats on the Mississippi where you couldn't gamble.... but you could on the boats, since they weren't on land. 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, cscurlock said:

it could be possibly, but why would they change the process if its already been designed and built for US cruises since its online?

Good question, other than they have to follow CDC rules when sailing out of a US port whereas they may have different rules when sailing out of St Maarten or Athens? In any event it would be nice to see just exactly what this person posted if youre able to find it.

[WeMissSeaView]

I would assume that cruise ships departing from FL for a foreign location are under the same Federal laws as airplanes departing Miami Airport for a foreign location.  For the airplane, once you present your boarding pass and step on the jetway you are considered to have initiated your departure from the US.  You can even be stopped by Customs on the Jetway and your hand carry bags searched as per Federal law.  Also, you have to present a passport before you can even enter the jetway.  That passport may be required to have visas for different counties before you are even issued a boarding pass.  So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Edited May 30, 2021 by WeMissSeaView
Spellcheck

[ghstudio]

1 hour ago, 39august said:

The ship can't be in "international waters" when it is in a Florida port.  But I'm sure they will come up with something. 

Think about what you're saying.  When you land at an airport from overseas, you are well within a US state...are you suggesting that's not an "international area" either.  Entering US waters or landing in the US does not equal being in a state and therefor, not equal to being in the US subject to state laws.

 

[ghstudio]

32 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Someone posted something they received in the mail regarding the July cruises for Celebrity and it seems that they will require you to upload the vaccine requirement when you online check in or earlier.  If you don't then your cruise is cancelled and refunded.  

Unfortunately, vaccine cards are available on-line so, as always, there will be some who view this like buying a fake service dog certificate.  

 

Your best protection is having the shot yourself and not relying on anyone else being truthful.

  

[cscurlock]

12 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

I am not going to give away any helpful hints, but people who look at the cards will have a very easy way of finding fake vaccination information on the cards.

I don't think many people will try it and if they did the penalty would be severe, permanent ban, and maybe being sued if the ship has to turn around or alter itinerary.  What does the contract say happens if you are caught lying about your medical records?

[AdoraBelle]

24 minutes ago, ghstudio said:

Unfortunately, vaccine cards are available on-line so, as always, there will be some who view this like buying a fake service dog certificate. 

Or to put another way: lots of our fellow humans are comfortable with committing fraud.

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, AdoraBelle said:

Or to put another way: lots of our fellow humans are comfortable with committing fraud.

You have to remember some ports will require proof of vaccination and they expect the cruise line to pre-verify.   If that is breached and causes an outbreak at the port of call the pushback will be severe.   They will validate the cards with the originating state/country somehow.  They can't afford a failure here.

  

[rkacruiser]

My first cruise was on a vessel registered in the Netherlands, Rotterdam V in 1970.  It was my understanding then and has ever since been, when my feet touch the deck of whatever vessel, then I am in the jurisdiction of the Flag State of that vessel.  On Rotterdam V, I was in the jurisdiction of the Netherlands.  Just as I was in the jurisdiction of Malta when I stepped aboard Celebrity Eclipse in Port Everglades.   

 

 

[cscurlock]

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

My first cruise was on a vessel registered in the Netherlands, Rotterdam V in 1970.  It was my understanding then and has ever since been, when my feet touch the deck of whatever vessel, then I am in the jurisdiction of the Flag State of that vessel.  On Rotterdam V, I was in the jurisdiction of the Netherlands.  Just as I was in the jurisdiction of Malta when I stepped aboard Celebrity Eclipse in Port Everglades.   

 

 

For port Everglades with the exception of alcohol sales taxes which states control you are correct.   Once on the ship and in US waters or at port Congress has the power to regulate them using federal laws under the commerce clause in the US constitution.  Outside of US waters you are in Malta.

[MamaFej]

22 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

I don't think many people will try it and if they did the penalty would be severe, permanent ban, and maybe being sued if the ship has to turn around or alter itinerary.  What does the contract say happens if you are caught lying about your medical records?

I'm going to give my fellow humans the benefit of the doubt and postulate that the vast, vast majority of Covid vaccine documents presented will be genuine. Cruiselines could choose to randomly spot check a small percentage of cards (like schools do for reduced preice or free lunch applications). 

 

If the lot number matches the shot location and date that lot was administered, it's "Have a nice cruise." If not, "Buh bye."

 

If someone onboard became symptomatic, check their document. After verifying the lot number matches the location and the date the location administered that lot (as a good fake would) contact the adminisering agency and make sure that the person is in their records. If they are, "Bummer, I guess you're one of the small percentage for whom it didn't work as well. Let's treat your symptoms and keep you away from others until you no longer test positive." If they aren't: release the full power of whatever the consequences are upon them. 

 

It would take some effort, but it would certainly not be impossible, with a miniscule number of possible exceptions. I've made sure that my information is verifiable, and I'm thinking that most other cruisers would as well, especially if the consequences were made clear upfront. 

[harkinmr]

4 hours ago, AdoraBelle said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=62a45f395ed5
 

“On a call with travel agents last Thursday, Dondra Ritzenthaler, senior VP of sales, trade support and service at Celebrity Cruises, discussed “the elephant in the room,” according a scoop in the unofficial Royal Caribbean Blog, which is not affiliated with the cruise line. The blog’s founder, Matt Hochberg, was not on the call but obtained an audio recording, which he shared with Forbes.

In the clip, the Celebrity Cruises executive is heard outlining how DeSantis is working with the largest cruise lines — Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line — to find a workaround. When the governor came out with his prohibition against vaccine verifications, “he was talking about restaurants, bars, hotels, Disney, places that weren’t cruise ships — because at the time, cruise ships weren’t open yet,” explained Ritzenthaler. “And we’re ironing out a statement that will articulate how cruising will be different than [being] in the state.”

Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.”

Except as we all know that is a legal stretch. You are not in international waters until 12 miles out. But if they think that explanation will wash with the targeted masses, then more power to him. As was said in the article, the Governor has gotten himself into quite a pickle. Getting out of it won’t be logical or graceful. All the more reason to look before you leap.