2 Passengers on Seaside Test Positive for Covid June 8

[little britain]

9 hours ago, sugcarol said:

I still think that they will test unvaccinated passengers maybe every single day, and they should, why should 95% of the passengers be sympathetic to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated. They should have to walk the plank and swim to shore. GO VAX!!

Currently on Virtuosa which sailed from from Southampton on Saturday.

We are double vaccinated however we had nasal test at port before boarding; we have temperature check every day and we have just had a 2nd mandatory nasal swab today Thursday. 
I think MSC are doing everything correctly 

[8420PR]

Good to see everything working as planned.   It is based on the swiss cheese model, that no barrier is perfect so multiple imperfect barriers are used to reduce the potential for Covid outbreaks to a minimum.  The layers are:

- testing before embarkation

- testing at embarkation

- testing during the cruise

- testing before disembarkation

- daily temperature checks

- daily activity checks

- social distancing on board

- masks on board where not eating or drinking or by the pool.

- quarantine cases 

- contact tracing

 

It is a real credit to MSC and EU authorities that they implement these science based measures and you can see they have improved them since August last year when they started sailing - for example, we saw photos last year of waiters just wearing face guards whereas now they all have FFP2 (or equivalent) masks.

 

 

[MotownVoice]

11 hours ago, capriccio said:

I understand asymptomatic.  My question is were 3 passengers determined to have Covid?  The first article about the cancellation of the stop in Malta mentioned 1 passenger reporting illness.  The second article says two asymptomatic passengers were disembarked in Siracusa.  Just curious as to the number of identified cases.

This followup in USA Today makes it .

 

”...Two passengers on board MSC Cruises' MSC Seaside ship tested positive for COVID-19, disembarking Tuesday during a scheduled port call Siracusa a city in Sicily, Italy...”

 

So whatever your confusion about one person having reported it, two people were ill.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/06/09/msc-cruise-passengers-disembark-italy-after-positive-covid-tests/7627317002/

 

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, 8420PR said:

Good to see everything working as planned.   It is based on the swiss cheese model, that no barrier is perfect so multiple imperfect barriers are used to reduce the potential for Covid outbreaks to a minimum.  The layers are:

- testing before embarkation

- testing at embarkation

- testing during the cruise

- testing before disembarkation

- daily temperature checks

- daily activity checks

- social distancing on board

- masks on board where not eating or drinking or by the pool.

- quarantine cases 

- contact tracing

 

It is a real credit to MSC and EU authorities that they implement these science based measures and you can see they have improved them since August last year when they started sailing - for example, we saw photos last year of waiters just wearing face guards whereas now they all have FFP2 (or equivalent) masks.

 

 

Well said. People just need to get used to the idea that no disease is 100% preventable, including Covid-19. So either you accept that fact and cruise anyway, knowing there's NEVER going to be a 0% risk, or you don't cruise, period. Everyone will have to decide for himself. My choice is to cruise anyway, and the new data coming from the Cleveland Clinic is just more proof that my risk level is VERY low (I've had Covid and I've had my 2 shots). Once more: even supposedly 100% vaccinated cruises DO NOT GUARANTEE you can't get sick. The risk is very low, but it isn't now and never will be 0. I applaud MSC and any line that understands that, and has in place reasonable protocols to mitigate the risk. Mitigate, not eliminate. As they say in legislative politics, "don't make the perfect the enemy of the good."

[MotownVoice]

4 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

People just need to get used to the idea that no disease is 100% preventable, including Covid-19. (...) I applaud MSC and any line that understands that, and has in place reasonable protocols to mitigate the risk. Mitigate, not eliminate. As they say in legislative politics, "don't make the perfect the enemy of the good."

Agreed, but there is another layer to this situation that your sentiments don't touch on.

There is a relatively vast group of people who are deliberately working against any mitigation, prevention or inoculation at all either through personal campaigns of deliberate misinformation or by actually injecting their unprotected selves into dangerous, public situations.  And they do it just to prove that they are the masters of their liberties and anyone who doesn't like it can go to hell.

That dynamic introduces an entirely new dimension to your "Perfect the Enemy of the Good" theory.

And that is that we have to be on guard not only to protect ourselves from the passively ignorant, but against the aggressively malicious, including those in policy making positions who rattle the passions of their base by blocking mitigation or by using political propaganda to try and turn the tide of public opinion toward the disregard of the their own best interests.

Because you are correct that even though I've had both vaccine shots, there is no guaranteed that I cannot contract Covid, and given my age and risk factors, I have to consider that there may be whole families of people who have disregarded their opportunity to get vaccinated and will come aboard a ship on 2 week cruise itinerary.  They may be undetectable at embarkation, either asymptomatic or ill by the end of week one, and by the time mitigation measures are taken, my fate could have already been sealed.

I personally am for the complete protection of the passengers of a cruise ship, and that would include the use of vaccine passports.  People who have not even taken the small measure to get vaccinated should not be permitted aboard a ship on to which they will be sealed off with other passengers who have. 

Yes, I can either accept that there are idiots out there and not cruise ... or take my chances.  Those are my choices.

But I advocate for doing more, and not just acquiescing to the me-first obsessed.

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

Agreed, but there is another layer to this situation that your sentiments don't touch on.

There is a relatively vast group of people who are deliberately working against any mitigation, prevention or inoculation at all either through personal campaigns of deliberate misinformation or by actually injecting their unprotected selves into dangerous, public situations.  And they do it just to prove that they are the masters of their liberties and anyone who doesn't like it can go to hell.

That dynamic introduces an entirely new dimension to your "Perfect the Enemy of the Good" theory.

And that is that we have to be on guard not only to protect ourselves from the passively ignorant, but against the aggressively malicious, including those in policy making positions who rattle the passions of their base by blocking mitigation or by using political propaganda to try and turn the tide of public opinion toward the disregard of the their own best interests.

Because you are correct that even though I've had both vaccine shots, there is no guaranteed that I cannot contract Covid, and given my age and risk factors, I have to consider that there may be whole families of people who have disregarded their opportunity to get vaccinated and will come aboard a ship on 2 week cruise itinerary.  They may be undetectable at embarkation, either asymptomatic or ill by the end of week one, and by the time mitigation measures are taken, my fate could have already been sealed.

I personally am for the complete protection of the passengers of a cruise ship, and that would include the use of vaccine passports.  People who have not even taken the small measure to get vaccinated should not be permitted aboard a ship on to which they will be sealed off with other passengers who have. 

Yes, I can either accept that there are idiots out there and not cruise ... or take my chances.  Those are my choices.

But I advocate for doing more, and not just acquiescing to the me-first obsessed.

I can't do anything about those people. My choice is to understand my own risk and make my cruising choices based on what protocols the cruise line has in place. That's it.

[MotownVoice]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

I can't do anything about those people. My choice is to understand my own risk and make my cruising choices based on what protocols the cruise line has in place. That's it.

You can also choose to vocally advocate for better solutions than what has been offered.

You don't have to, obviously.

But you may.

[DCGuy64]

Just now, MotownVoice said:

You can also choose to vocally advocate for better solutions than what has been offered.

You don't have to, obviously.

But you may.

Yes, I can. But without going into my entire personal life, I can't fight every battle and like most people, I have limited time and resources. You have to pick your battles and this is one I'm personally not going to fight. That's just me. Others have to choose what they're willing to do.

[capriccio]

We are vaccinated and want to cruise with vaccinated passengers for another reason:  we do not want ports unavailable or suddenly canceled or, in a worst case scenario, the cruise canceled and the ship returned to home port or the nearest port that will accept it.  That would be the antithesis of a relaxing vacation.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

8 hours ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

How will those Governors and CEOs feel if a child or god-forbid two dies of COVID caught on one of these ships?

seriously? They don't care.

[elbarney]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

We are vaccinated and want to cruise with vaccinated passengers for another reason:  we do not want ports unavailable or suddenly canceled or, in a worst case scenario, the cruise canceled and the ship returned to home port or the nearest port that will accept it.  That would be the antithesis of a relaxing vacation.

While I understand this position, you have to understand others.

I'm waiting to be vaccinated, but as I am Spanish and relatively young, it's still not my turn. 

I have been waiting to have holidays more than a year, as I don't feel safe in a hotel with many guest around me and not knowing if they could have covid.

For me, MSC provides the possibility of a relatively safe holiday.

Those of you that have been vaccinated already(lucky you!) can choose to go to a 100% vaccinated cruise on other company, but for me this is my only option where at least everyone has been tested recently and they are trying to keep safe groups.

So, please, as long as vaccines aren available for everyone, understand that for some of us it's not a choice, and that you have other companies that accept you but not people like me.

 

[KennyFla]

2 hours ago, MotownVoice said:

There is a relatively vast group of people who are deliberately working against any mitigation, prevention or inoculation at all either through personal campaigns of deliberate misinformation or by actually injecting their unprotected selves into dangerous, public situations.  And they do it just to prove that they are the masters of their liberties and anyone who doesn't like it can go to hell.

That dynamic introduces an entirely new dimension to your "Perfect the Enemy of the Good" theory.

And that is that we have to be on guard not only to protect ourselves from the passively ignorant, but against the aggressively malicious, including those in policy making positions who rattle the passions of their base by blocking mitigation or by using political propaganda to try and turn the tide of public opinion toward the disregard of the their own best interests.


But I advocate for doing more, and not just acquiescing to the me-first obsessed.

Are you serious?

If you are, that's sad.

[capriccio]

9 minutes ago, elbarney said:

While I understand this position, you have to understand others.

I'm waiting to be vaccinated, but as I am Spanish and relatively young, it's still not my turn. 

I have been waiting to have holidays more than a year, as I don't feel safe in a hotel with many guest around me and not knowing if they could have covid.

For me, MSC provides the possibility of a relatively safe holiday.

Those of you that have been vaccinated already(lucky you!) can choose to go to a 100% vaccinated cruise on other company, but for me this is my only option where at least everyone has been tested recently and they are trying to keep safe groups.a

So, please, as long as vaccines aren available for everyone, understand that for some of us it's not a choice, and that you have other companies that accept you but not people like me.

 

A cruise (or any type of vacation) is always a choice.

 

Our next cruise is not until July 2022 (replacing a July 2020 cruise that was cancelled) with our family group (6 adults, and two kids who will be 7 1/2 and almost 3).  When we re-booked last November before any vaccines were available all the adults agreed - without any discussion - that the cruise would be canceled unless everyone was vaccinated. We would just go without a family vacation for the 3rd year.

 

I hope you get your vaccination soon. 

[DCGuy64]

39 minutes ago, elbarney said:

While I understand this position, you have to understand others.

I'm waiting to be vaccinated, but as I am Spanish and relatively young, it's still not my turn. 

I have been waiting to have holidays more than a year, as I don't feel safe in a hotel with many guest around me and not knowing if they could have covid.

For me, MSC provides the possibility of a relatively safe holiday.

Those of you that have been vaccinated already(lucky you!) can choose to go to a 100% vaccinated cruise on other company, but for me this is my only option where at least everyone has been tested recently and they are trying to keep safe groups.

So, please, as long as vaccines aren available for everyone, understand that for some of us it's not a choice, and that you have other companies that accept you but not people like me.

 

You raise a good point. My view is that way too many people are focusing on vaccinations and not on what really counts, which is risk tolerance. I am sorry the vaccinations aren't moving forward as quickly in Spain as here in the US, but the reality is that if you're young and healthy, you're already VERY, VERY unlikely to either get Covid-19 in the 1st place and even more unlikely to have serious consequences if you do. For example, I'm 57 and in great health. I got Covid at the end of December 2020 and had it for about 10 days. It was like a mild cold, I had a little cough and I did lose my sense of taste and smell for a few days, but never had a fever or chills, trouble breathing, etc. And obviously I wasn't even vaccinated. (side note: I had a sinus infection in 2016 right before going on a cruise, and I'd also lost taste/smell which sucked because who wants to drink wine and espresso and not taste them? First day on the ship I went to see the doctor and by the next day I could smell the pasta and everything else). My wife and I spent a week in Mexico last summer and had no issues whatsoever. People who are trying to scare you by saying you'll catch your death onboard a cruise ship by not being vaccinated are just plain ignorant. There are very few actual doctors on Cruise Critic, and most people who post their worries and concerns as though they're actual fact are just speculating. And they have ZERO influence over what the cruise lines actually do. No matter what I or anyone else says, we won't be deciding SQUAT when it comes to cruise line policies. Take everything you read on this site with a grain of salt. Yes, including what I just wrote. There are cruise lines like MSC that have made the decision NOT to require 100% vaccinations, and I support them. I'm fully vaccinated myself and not worried one bit. Come onboard! No te preocupes. 😉

[MotownVoice]

45 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Are you serious?

If you are, that's sad.

Ah good.  Ad hominem.  Just a terrific contribution to the discussion. 

[KennyFla]

7 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

Ah good.  Ad hominem.  Just a terrific contribution to the discussion. 

I'm not attacking you, I feel bad that you think there is a large percentage of people that are doing those things.

Purposely infecting themselves and others to make some kind of political point?  I just don't believe that.  

They just disagree with you.

[MotownVoice]

4 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

I'm not attacking you, I feel bad that you think there is a large percentage of people that are doing those things.

Purposely infecting themselves and others to make some kind of political point?  I just don't believe that.  

They just disagree with you.

I didn't say "purposely infecting themselves."

That seems to be a common tool for you.  Pretend as though you're quoting someone, but make the quote as wild and idiotic and nothing like what the person said as possible.

This is the line you are pretending to cite:

"...There is a relatively vast group of people who are deliberately working against any mitigation, prevention or inoculation at all either through personal campaigns of deliberate misinformation or by actually injecting their unprotected selves into dangerous, public situations..."

Notice I said nothing about people purposefully making themselves sick.

This is why you are not to be taken seriously in a discussion.  You are passive aggressive and hostile toward set groups of people.  I don't even think you can help it, you've just done it for so long.
 

[kilkoyne]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yes, I can. But without going into my entire personal life, I can't fight every battle and like most people, I have limited time and resources. You have to pick your battles and this is one I'm personally not going to fight. That's just me. Others have to choose what they're willing to do.

 

Interesting how many cruisers are so against cruising with someone unvaxx yet I'm sure will  fly on a plane to get to their vaxx cruise port if need be.

 

People are using the excuse "it will ruin my cruise" or "think about the safety of others" but in reality there's an undertone of how they are really worried of getting sick themselves. 

 

There's always a risk. Even going grocery shopping there are many unvaxx people walking aisles. I trust the vaccine to keep me safe. I won't let who don't want to get the vaxx or can't limit what I want to do.

Edited June 10, 2021 by kilkoyne

[KennyFla]

16 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

I didn't say "purposely infecting themselves."

That seems to be a common tool for you.  Pretend as though you're quoting someone, but make the quote as wild and idiotic and nothing like what the person said as possible.

This is why you are not to be taken seriously in a discussion.  You are passive aggressive and hostile toward set groups of people.  I don't even think you can help it, you've just done it for so long.
 

If anybody aggressively attacks people, it is you.  You are also apparently a mind reader.

I don't think anybody's mind is going to be changed here.

[capriccio]

6 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

Interesting how many cruisers are so against cruising with someone unvaxx yet I'm sure will  fly on a plane to get to their vaxx cruise port if need be.

You are sure?  Based on what surveys?  Can you share them? 

 

I made a point earlier on that we are especially concerned about the impact of on board covid cases on a ship's itinerary including missing ports, shortening cruises, etc. and thereby wrecking a long awaited and expensive vacation.   I don't think that is nearly as big a concern on a flight from home to a cruise port.

[kilkoyne]

3 hours ago, capriccio said:

You are sure?  Based on what surveys?  Can you share them? 

 

I made a point earlier on that we are especially concerned about the impact of on board covid cases on a ship's itinerary including missing ports, shortening cruises, etc. and thereby wrecking a long awaited and expensive vacation.   I don't think that is nearly as big a concern on a flight from home to a cruise port.

 

I'm not going to go through and pick out all the posts. Read the forums.

[capriccio]

10 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

I'm not going to go through and pick out all the posts. Read the forums.

 

I have and I do.  That is why I am asking you for specifics.

 

Added:  do you have any concerns about cruise interruption or, worst case, cancellation in mid-cruise?

Edited June 10, 2021 by capriccio

[kilkoyne]

5 minutes ago, capriccio said:

 

I have and I do.  That is why I am asking you for specifics.

 

Added:  do you have any concerns about cruise interruption or, worst case, cancellation in mid-cruise?

 

If you can't find the posts then you're aren't looking very well. I'm not going to respond to your posts any longer. Have a great day.

 

 

[neptuno]

Does anyone know what happens to the unfortunate guests who are put off the ship due to covid?  Must they arrange their own transport back to port of embarkation?

[DCGuy64]

23 minutes ago, neptuno said:

Does anyone know what happens to the unfortunate guests who are put off the ship due to covid?  Must they arrange their own transport back to port of embarkation?

My understanding is that their repatriation costs are borne by the travel insurance they were required to purchase prior to sailing.