July Exemption Denial Email

[BoozinCroozin]

25 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Really?

 

If she has not taken the vaccine because of a doctor's advice, then she has a medical reason.

There is a drastic difference between medically not able to take it and bring advised not to take it. Being advised is a recommendation with little out no scientific backing unless the drug makers and FDA say she can't take it. 

[arkaine23]

Since no one has posted the whole thing and speculation early in the thread strayed immediately to misinformation about there being no exceptions....

 

Its not hard.  There are a small number of exceptions allowed for a vaccinated cruise.  Final Payments need to be paid for there to be a passenger count.  They have to undercount exception slots a little to account for there being some no-shows or denials at the terminal.  There are 3 categories for unvaccinated exception in the request form- children under 12, religious, and medical.   Its expected children will be the largest group or be given priority based on the phrasing in the communication.  Yes, this sucks to have to put your money on the line and possibly be unable to fit into an exception slot and have to rebook for the future or wait for a refund.    If that's a deal breaker for your family, cancel or rebook for December or next year.

 

OPERATIONAL UPDATE MARDI GRAS JULY 31 AND AUGUST 2021 SAILINGS

Dear Carnival Guest: We are excited about getting to welcome you aboard your upcoming cruise in August. We know you are awaiting more details about pre-cruise and onboard protocols and procedures and we want to thank you for your patience while we finalized our plans. Our Have Fun. Be Safe. protocols and procedures have been designed to maximize the health and safety of our guests and crew while delivering a fun and memorable vacation experience. Please take note of our Have Fun. Be Safe. guidelines we expect to follow: Guests, including children who are age-eligible for vaccines, will need to be vaccinated and show proof of vaccination in advance of boarding. (As a reminder, fully vaccinated is defined as receiving the final dose of a vaccine at least 14 days before embarkation.) For your reference, any vaccine approved by either the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) or the World Health Organization (WHO) meets this requirement. According to current CDC guidelines, vaccinated guests on your sailing will not be required to wear face masks or physical distance while on board. However, masks are required at the cruise terminal during embarkation. Vaccinated guests may participate in Carnival-sponsored tours or independent activities. We are in the process of finalizing our tours and expect more availability to be added in the next few weeks. Please check back on Carnival.com by the end of the month. All guests are required to follow the protocols and requirements for each destination while ashore. These restrictions are under the control of local government and are subject to change without advance notice. We encourage you to come prepared for potential requirements ashore which may apply to health screening/testing, masks, physical distancing, organized tours/independent activities, etc. A Know Before You Go email will be sent to you the week before sailing with additional information on embarkation related matters.  Please watch for and read that email carefully, as it will be specific about vaccination verification and other details. We know there are some guests who are ineligible or unable to meet the vaccination requirements and we want to provide them with more information on our decision. The current CDC requirements for cruising with a guest base that is unvaccinated are much more restrictive and will make it very difficult to deliver the experience our guests expect especially given the large number of families with younger children who sail with us.  Specifically, the current CDC requirements for cruises with unvaccinated guests require that vaccinated guests wear a face mask indoors and that all unvaccinated guests undergo testing at the embarkation terminal (and within 24 hours of debark if the cruise is longer than 4 days).  This requirement applies to all unvaccinated guests, including children, along with physical distancing requirements that will have to be maintained between guests on board. We are in regular communication with the CDC requesting that more manageable guidelines be adopted, especially as it relates to families traveling with children under the age of 12 who are ineligible for vaccination. Until those guidelines are revised, our only alternative is to sail with vaccinated guests.  We also continue to work with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis on our plans for our Florida based ships.  We know this is disappointing to those guests who are unable to be or have not been vaccinated, including the many children who are booked to sail with us for their summer vacation.  We had to make some difficult decisions based on where we are with the CDC, general public health guidelines, and the overall health and safety of our guests and crew. We remain optimistic that requirements for cruising from the U.S. will continue to evolve and our approach to future sailings will become more flexible. However, at this time we must follow the guidance we have as of today.  As we operate to meet the CDC guidelines, there is an exemption process to accommodate a small number of guests who are unable or ineligible to be vaccinated (children under 12 and other exceptions as required by federal law).  The current standard to meet the CDC’s criteria for a fully vaccinated cruise – under which guests can sail without a mask and other restrictions – is that at least 95 percent of all guests on board are fully vaccinated.  Please click here to submit  an application for an exemption if a member of your party meets our criteria. Exemption request must be completed by end of day June 25. It’s important to note that the number of exemptions will be a very small subset, will largely be children under 12, and it will be less than 5 percent of guests to account for no shows and other operational matters.  And, we cannot begin to process these requests until after all final payments are received on June 21 and we have certainty on the total number of guests on board – so that we can determine the number of exemptions.  But we are committed to moving as quickly as possible. In the meantime, it is important that you make sure your booking is up to date, which includes the names and ages of all guests in your party.  You can manage that in the MyCruisePlanner function on Carnival.com, with your Personal Vacation Planner, your travel agent or by calling us at 1-800-CARNIVAL. If you determine the time is not right for you to sail, please call 1-800-CARNIVAL, your Personal Vacation Planner or your travel advisor who can help you rebook for a later date. We have ship itineraries open through 2024 and as previously communicated, we have extended your ability to rebook or request a full refund until Monday, June 21.  After that date, our regular fare rules will apply.  Ultimately, we are focused and committed to following all guidelines, protecting public health, AND delivering to our guests, a FUN Carnival cruise vacation.  We look forward to seeing you on a Carnival cruise next month. Sincerely,

Christine Duffy President, Carnival Cruise Line     And this is the link address for exceptions:  https://click.carnivalcruiselineemail.com/?qs=6c7fa3c3722fe8669ab72c51675cdaeafec6972370cff976a70017cf5342a9f88208f2b14fa8d0bb891296b5795989a526a2fafbfd96dfb9   I've heard that you can't submit the exception request if your booking isn't in the time frame (all August sailings + Mardi Gras July 31) and if it isn't paid in full.  My wife and I are vaccinated so no need for us to request an exception.  There DOES NOT seem to be a first-come-first served thing going on.  This link is supposed to stay live until June 25, meanwhile final payments are due by June 21.  Sometime after June 25 the request form link will close and they will follow-up and start selecting and notifying who does or doesn't make the cut.   My gut says a lot of families are going to cancel or rebook for later and this will pave the way for those who are patient and persistent to have a better shot at an exception slot.

Edited June 18, 2021 by arkaine23

[jsglow]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

CCL needs to just end this exemption garbage for July and August. It is wrong to string families along and require them to pay in full knowing they will not allow them. This is a cash grab where refunds will cross fiscal quarters. Make the books look as good as possible legally even though they won't have to. Just announce once and for all that July and August are vaccinated only. Then revisit in a few weeks for September. Most kids are in school then anyway and far fewer to even worry about. The next big kid vacation times are Fall Break and Thanksgiving. By then, this may be a moot point.

You understand that you have every right to cancel, yes?  The exemption does not compel you to travel during the ongoing Health Emergency and under the CSO. 

[sanmarcosman]

1 hour ago, BoozinCroozin said:

If there are exemptions, she would fall out of the group that would be considered. From the criteria and the number of people that would request it, it would be protected classes first (i.e. people with provable religious reasons)

This may be true of non-pandemic procedures for public school children admissions but faith based exemption applicants don't go to the head of the line during a pandemic. Especially for something as optional as a cruise vacation.

[ricka47]

45 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Really?

 

If she has not taken the vaccine because of a doctor's advice, then she has a medical reason.

 

Data has been collected on the level of antibodies produced by a Covid 19 infection and the point at which the antibodies drop. There are two main proteins (antibodies) that are produced. One drops below effective levels at around ninety days out from infection. The other slowly decreases over a longer period of time.

 

Before ninety days after infection, a vaccine will not add to the immunity. After that, the vaccine will be a "booster."

 

Check with Carnival.  

 

Another cruise line (MSC) has procedures for those who have had Covid 19 within ninety days of sailing , have recovered, and have not received the vaccine due to medical advice to not do so. There is documentation required and the controls for the Covid 19 within ninety days passengers fall between those for the vaccinated and the non-vaccinated passengers.

 

Perhaps Carnival has similar procedures for those who have required a natural immunity after infection and , therefore, are a sunset of the "vaccinated" population.

It is a medical reason for severe allergic reaction up to and including death. So, our doctor could provide anything that they need. But, I called CCL and they said they don't know what will happen in September and that they would give us back our deposit if we cancelled. So, we did that and will hope that they work things out in the future.

[Joe817]

20 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

It is a medical reason for severe allergic reaction up to and including death. So, our doctor could provide anything that they need. But, I called CCL and they said they don't know what will happen in September and that they would give us back our deposit if we cancelled. So, we did that and will hope that they work things out in the future.

I think you did the right thing. We've all waited this long, and better not take any chances for something tragic to happen. With the way things are going, I believe you will be able to sail in a few months. 

[cruisegus]

1 hour ago, arkaine23 said:

There are 3 categories for unvaccinated exception in the request form- children under 12, religious, and medical.   Its expected children will be the largest group or be given priority based on the phrasing in the communication. 

not only will they give priority to children under 12, they will also prioritize those by the cabin prices, ie child booked into suites first, then balcony etc.

Anything less would not meet their fiduciary duty to stockholders.

 

No judgement, but I personally can't see why any parent who themselves are vaccinated (ie not anti-vaxers) would want to subject their children under 12 to the risk of possible exposure on a cruise ship yet.

[arkaine23]

That's just speculation, but I'd speculate along those lines too.  Prioritize salvaging a booking- i.e. a single exception request for a booking vs a booking with multiple exceptions requested.  And higher price booking > lower price booking.   Loyalty could also be a factor.  Wouldn't you want to approve the booking of the people who cruise with you 10/year and have other bookings already for the future?  Denying that exception could cause multiple cancellations.

 

But we have no way of proving that is the case.  And there very well could just be some randomization so they could be above board legally if there was any chance for case of discrimination.

 

The other thing is that as the bookings turnover....  many were booked a long time ago at lower rates than what they'd go for now, only weeks away from sailing in peak season.  Also many include $600 OBC's from cruises that were cancelled and rebooked in the last 1.25 years.   When those flip by voluntary cancellation the OBC disappears and a rebooking in that room is at a higher price.   As long as demand is very high, there won't be that many rooms that go unfilled, and the margin of profit is greater and/or the loss from OBC is lesser when a room cancels and someone else books it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by arkaine23

[TNcruising02]

25 minutes ago, cruisegus said:

not only will they give priority to children under 12, they will also prioritize those by the cabin prices, ie child booked into suites first, then balcony etc.

Anything less would not meet their fiduciary duty to stockholders.

 

No judgement, but I personally can't see why any parent who themselves are vaccinated (ie not anti-vaxers) would want to subject their children under 12 to the risk of possible exposure on a cruise ship yet.

I was thinking the same thing.  I have young grandkids and I talked to my son and his wife about waiting until next year to cruise.  They didn't have anything booked, but understand it is best to wait. It's not so much the risk on the cruise ships, but the risk traveling by plane, in the airport, and at the ports.  Even though kids usually have minor symptoms, I would wait until next year.  As for adults who have had covid, they are protected and I can see why they want to cruise.

Right now, there are a lot of restrictions for the unvaccinated and they have no idea what the ports will allow.  Maybe people from the lockdown states won't mind because that's the way they have lived, but people who are used to an almost normal life might not find all of the restrictions worth it.

Edited June 18, 2021 by TNcruising02

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, cruisegirl06 said:

This exactly! As a family with 3 kiddos

under 12, there’s no way I’m making final payment not knowing if they could go and not knowing how long a refund will take. I also refuse to stay in limbo seeing how often things are changing - I want to do everything I can to be sure our family has a nice vacation this summer.
 

I had been hoping they would just cancel for kids and offer families with kids the same refund or future OBC offers that all other cancelled cruises got - in that case we probably would have rebooked for next year and we still had would have a cruise to look forward to once things settled down a bit. But, given how this has all been handled, I’m in no hurry to rebook.

IF Carnival does not intend to sail with under 12s it would be better to just say it and let families know sooner so they can make alternate plans.

That was my point about getting passengers pissed off at them. There are other cruise lines and there are other vacation alternatives. In the long run you alienate your customer base when they are treated like this.

 

I know we once had a river cruise in the Netherlands and Belgium booked, and then well past final payment was made, they ship was chartered out. I believe they think they were treating us fairly when we were offered other cruises at an upgraded cabin, but I'm sure we are far from the only ones who have destination as the first thing we consider when we look to book. (We ended up flying to Amsterdam.) And we will NEVER consider booking with that river cruise line again.

 

BTW, even when they are the ones doing the cancelling, it is much harder to get your credit card refunded than to pay them. And they act like it is a big favor to you when you ask to get the refund so you can have the credit restored to book a different vacation since they just messed up what you had planned.

[Elaine5715]

53 minutes ago, cruisegus said:

not only will they give priority to children under 12, they will also prioritize those by the cabin prices, ie child booked into suites first, then balcony etc.

Anything less would not meet their fiduciary duty to stockholders.

 

No judgement, but I personally can't see why any parent who themselves are vaccinated (ie not anti-vaxers) would want to subject their children under 12 to the risk of possible exposure on a cruise ship yet.

There is no such evidence of this.  It would make the most sense then to give all exemption slots to adults.  Children aren't sources of revenue.  

[ScottsSweetie]

3 hours ago, jennas_mum said:

 

We are also cruising on Sept 4, 2021. I called our PVP and she changed our due date to July 21, 2021. Did you try to call and get an extension? 

 

 

 

We did not call for an extension. I wasn't really worried about paying the balance, as a part of us was hoping for not sailing and receiving OBC. As it is, we'll be thrilled to sail if it happens.

3 hours ago, SCBarker said:

 

All of these final payment dates seem random.

Above we have a 9/4 cruise with a final that was due 6/6.

Another 9/4 cruise with a final of 7/21.

I also have a 9/4 cruise and my final is 6/21.

Very interesting. I received no less than THREE emails marked URGENT - scaring me each time I got the email only to see that it was a final payment reminder, which I already had in my planner. It does seem now that it should not have been that early, and I would think that I read the due date wrong if not for the several email reminders I received that week reminding me to pay.

[cruisegus]

8 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

There is no such evidence of this.  It would make the most sense then to give all exemption slots to adults.  Children aren't sources of revenue.  

would not want to do that, those are the exact folks that are causing the problems, adult who are not vaccinated

[crewsweeper]

5 hours ago, mondello said:

From their latest update it looks like they are going with vaccinated cruises for the restart.

I think vaccinated cruises are the 95%ers, unless specifically stating for the cruise 100% passengers need to be vaccinated.

[arkaine23]

16 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

There is no such evidence of this.  It would make the most sense then to give all exemption slots to adults.  Children aren't sources of revenue.  

Their cruise fare isn't free.  And if kids aren't exceptioned, the risk is their parents will cancel their booking instead of finding a family member to watch the kids for 3-8 days and do the vacation without the kids.  So that's most likely 2 adult fares plus the cheaper kids' fare(s) at risk.

[Homosassa]

3 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

There is a drastic difference between medically not able to take it and bring advised not to take it. Being advised is a recommendation with little out no scientific backing unless the drug makers and FDA say she can't take it. 

LOL - Have you ever told your doctor that his diagnosis and advice have no scientific backing?

 

By the way, part of the approval process for any product investigational product under FDA jurisdiction (IDE/PMA, IND/NDA, IND/BLA, not 510(k)s) include an advisory panel composed of doctors who after reviewing study data, offer their "advice" on if the product should be approved.

[BoozinCroozin]

1 minute ago, Homosassa said:

LOL - Have you ever told your doctor that his diagnosis and advice have no scientific backing?

 

By the way, part of the approval process for any product investigational product under FDA jurisdiction (IDE/PMA, IND/NDA, IND/BLA, not 510(k)s) include an advisory panel composed of doctors who after reviewing study data, offer their "advice" on if the product should be approved.

And it is approved. Good luck on an exemption based on "my doctor doesn't think I should get it". The number of exemptions are so small to begin with, if they take them, it will be kids under 12 and only those that are a protected class over 12, not some random medical advisement.

[AtoZgirl]

Approvals are already going our for July 4th Horizon cruise 🤞🤞

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

There is no such evidence of this.  It would make the most sense then to give all exemption slots to adults.  Children aren't sources of revenue.  

But families with children are a source of revenue.

[mondello]

13 minutes ago, AtoZgirl said:

Approvals are already going our for July 4th Horizon cruise 🤞🤞

That is the information I have been waiting to see. The 95/5% plan in action. I feel pretty silly knowing I missed the mention of the exemptions in the vaccinated cruises announcement.

[AtoZgirl]

53 minutes ago, mondello said:

That is the information I have been waiting to see. The 95/5% plan in action. I feel pretty silly knowing I missed the mention of the exemptions in the vaccinated cruises announcement.

Agreed! And it was easy to miss.

[AtoZgirl]

In case anyone was wondering. 

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, AtoZgirl said:

In case anyone was wondering. 

Congratulations for making the cut!  Have a great cruise!

[AtoZgirl]

29 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Congratulations for making the cut!  Have a great cruise!

Thank you, but we haven’t received ours yet! This is someone from a cruise going out 2 weeks earlier than us. Praying we get good news too and same for everyone that applied for their kiddos.

Edited June 18, 2021 by AtoZgirl

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, AtoZgirl said:

Thank you, but we haven’t received ours yet! This is someone from a cruise going out 2 weeks earlier than us. Praying we get news too and same for everyone that applied for their kiddos.

Well, it's good to see that someone made it.  I hope your family does too!