Well, now this is interesting.....Looks like Florida may have gotten it's way.

[ontheweb]

21 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

 

You can look at it that way, but it is a less tenable position.

 

We all knew from the beginning that there wouldn't be 100% vaccination. If we take your position, it's really a defeatists position, because the cruise industry will fail for certain if the standard for continued operation is 100% vaxxed. You'll never get there.

 

Yes, we all know we will never reach 100%, but there are things being done now to incentivize those not vaccinated to get their shots such as free beer, or free donuts, or lottery tickets to win college scholarships. Being able to cruise or visit foreign countries could be just another incentive.

 

And what about when those foreign ports require only vaccinated passengers from cruise ships? And please do not say well the unvaccinated passengers will just not be able to disembark at those ports. That is not the way it works. In the past say when Brazil required visas for passengers from the US if you showed up at the ship and did not have that visa, you were DENIED  boarding; you were not told just stay on the ship when we get to Brazil. Cruise lines could not do that because the ship would not have been cleared to come to port in Brazil. And the same was true if a country on the itinerary required yellow fever shot.

 

No one is denying you the right not to get one of the authorized Covid shots, but if you don't you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of your decision. 

[grest]

no sailing for me without vaccinations....too risky, and too much potential for disrupted cruises.

 

[mightycruisequeen]

13 hours ago, idiebabe said:

RCCL has posted their Protocols with regards to those who are not Vaccinated.  Testing will be required at $136 per test and will have two Tests.  Key Cards will be punched for those Unvaccinated and those Vaccinated will wear wrist bands.  Some Venues will be off limits and no Open Seating for Unvaccinated.  Masks, of course, must be worn.  

Yikes, glad we're not booked on RCCL; talk about draconian rules!

 

[kelleherdl]

3 hours ago, NavArch64 said:

To Mary 229 .... the CDC Foundation appears to be a methodology for the Congress to authorize multiple Cooperative Agreements with industry partners to accomplish a broad range of "public purposes" in the public health field. The Congress would have "oversight" responsibility to insure that these multiple programs were in the "public interest". Seems OK to me.

The Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, the DoD medical school, has the Henry M Jackson Foundation to do the same thing. Totally authorized by legislation. 

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

I'm pretty sure that CDC and USPHS are peer subordinate agencies to HHS.

 

Fun question: Prior to 2020, how many ship inspections did the CDC perform? @Copper10-8 can probably answer from personal experience.

 

Morning Bryan; CDC never performed ship inspections while I was onboard. USPH, did/does, mostly unannounced and on a semi-regular basis. Those inspectors wear USCG-like dark blue utilities with dark blue baseball hats. Have seen them in Ft. Lauderdale, Juneau and Boston

[JAVERZ]

I totally agree with grest.  Who wants to invest all that time and money to go on a cruise that's disrupted by unvaccinated people spreading the virus to one another?  Remember what happened to passengers and crew last year when Covid-19 broke out? 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Morning Bryan; CDC never performed ship inspections while I was onboard. USPH, did/does, mostly unannounced and on a semi-regular basis. Those inspectors wear USCG-like dark blue utilities with dark blue baseball hats. Have seen them in Ft. Lauderdale, Juneau and Boston

Correct.  CDC is an agency of the USPH Service, as is the USPH Commissioned Corps.  The Commissioned Corps is the inspection arm of the USPH, enforcing the CDC's VSP.

[AKJonesy]

4 hours ago, SumoCitrus said:

 

In that scenario, sounds like those who insist on 100% vaxxed cruises might actually have a part in destroying one of their favorite vacation activities. And that's the point really - getting comfortable with the fact that (i) your vaccines protect you; and (ii) there will be unvaxxed among you is more necessity than anything else.

Agree.  

[liamur14]

21 hours ago, leerathje said:

The unfortunate thing is that I am now cancelling my cruise from Fort Lauderdale, as I'm not sailing on ship that is not fully (or 95%) vaccinated. 

 

L.

 

 100% agree, 100% fully vaccinated cruises with  proof.  Paul Gauguin and Eurodam here we come!😎🇨🇦

[liamur14]

1 minute ago, AKJonesy said:

Agree.  

Happy to be going on 2 fully vaxed cruises.😎

[AKJonesy]

1 hour ago, JAVERZ said:

I totally agree with grest.  Who wants to invest all that time and money to go on a cruise that's disrupted by unvaccinated people spreading the virus to one another?  Remember what happened to passengers and crew last year when Covid-19 broke out? 

Also, remember what just happened on Celebrity?  Two vaccinated people tested positive.  Celebrity enacted their new protocols and everyone was happy.  

 

[AKJonesy]

2 minutes ago, liamur14 said:

Happy to be going on 2 fully vaxed cruises.😎

I am going on 1 and am happy but just like Celebrity things can and will likely happen.  The cruise industry will continue to learn and improve.  They did an excellent job on Celebrity.

[kazu]

6 minutes ago, AKJonesy said:

Those with a strong position in favor of 100% vaccination rates may also be the people that bring down the cruise industry.  Many of the posts across these threads have a very hard line position.  As you said, we are never going to get there.  If you want 100% there are other options, and perhaps your cruising days are over on the big operators.  Hire a small private boat or stay home.  Even then, you have to travel on an airplane, go through and airport, and so forth.  I'm vaccinated and I realize there is no guarantee.  

 

Well we’ll just agree to disagree.  Caribbean cruises are not on our bucket list often and if the ships are not going to be taking vaccination measures we have no desire to go.  Nor is Florida appealing right now.

 

We’ll happily sail Europe and other such places where vaccination is a requirement.

 

There are variants and mutations that will develop and no one knows if vaccination will protect or not.

All we need is one Diamond Princess scenario and that will kill the cruise industry.  Not those that are doing their best to keep other safe.  JMO.

[AKJonesy]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

There are variants and mutations that will develop and no one knows if vaccination will protect or not.

All we need is one Diamond Princess scenario and that will kill the cruise industry.  Not those that are doing their best to keep other safe.  JMO.

We do not know about the variant, but in absence of the variant I doubt opinions would change.  The Diamond Princess narrative seems to be on the end of an extreme position.  We had a ship recently sail; Celebrity.  That ship had two vaccinated passengers test positive.  Celebrity enacted their protocols which was marvelous and hopefully the other lines will look at this as a success story.  You are right; we won't agree, so we will have to agree to disagree.  IMHO.  

[NavArch64]

To AKJonesy ... for those of us sailing to Alaska this summer aboard Nieuw Amsterdam, what can we expect in Juneau, Ketchikan and Sitka?

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, SueMo said:

Why can’t some sailings be vaccinated and others not?

 

At this time, I think such sailings would a source of concern for many of us.  

 

Cruise A is a fully vaccinated cruise.  Cruise B that followed is not.  If I am on Cruise C--a fully vaccinated cruise--would I have some concern that some of the virus remains onboard from those unvaccinated guests on the previous cruise?  To answer my own question:  yes, I would.  

[kazu]

7 minutes ago, AKJonesy said:

We do not know about the variant, but in absence of the variant I doubt opinions would change.  The Diamond Princess narrative seems to be on the end of an extreme position.  We had a ship recently sail; Celebrity.  That ship had two vaccinated passengers test positive.  Celebrity enacted their protocols which was marvelous and hopefully the other lines will look at this as a success story.  You are right; we won't agree, so we will have to agree to disagree.  IMHO.  

 

I don’t think the Diamond Princess is an extreme at all.  A ship not vaccinated risks spread quickly.

The Celebrity cruise you mention was with fully vaccinated crew and passenger and I agree, it was handled well.  Can you imagine the mess if 1/2 the cruise passengers had NOT been vaccinated?  

Vaccination is the key - all over the world - to stop the variants and mutations.  IMHO.

[AKJonesy]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, we all know we will never reach 100%, but there are things being done now to incentivize those not vaccinated to get their shots such as free beer, or free donuts, or lottery tickets to win college scholarships. Being able to cruise or visit foreign countries could be just another incentive.

 

And what about when those foreign ports require only vaccinated passengers from cruise ships? And please do not say well the unvaccinated passengers will just not be able to disembark at those ports. That is not the way it works. In the past say when Brazil required visas for passengers from the US if you showed up at the ship and did not have that visa, you were DENIED  boarding; you were not told just stay on the ship when we get to Brazil. Cruise lines could not do that because the ship would not have been cleared to come to port in Brazil. And the same was true if a country on the itinerary required yellow fever shot.

 

No one is denying you the right not to get one of the authorized Covid shots, but if you don't you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of your decision. 

I'm using your post to continue the discussion, if that is possible.  The problem I have with the hard line 100% position is that 100% to you, to me, to someone else's definition is different.  Case in point, on this forum in another thread, and perhaps even posted by someone in this thread, the issue of AZ vaccine came up.  People on this forum have said, people who had the AZ vaccine should not be allowed to cruise, or I don't want to cruise with anyone that had the AZ vaccine.  So what?  Those with Moderna, J&J, and Pfizer are ok to cruise, but not AZ?  What about the other type of vaccines?  No to those?  Where does this end?  

[rkacruiser]

100% vaccination means to me that all aboard my ship have received a vaccine of whatever manufacturer that has been FDA approved--even if it is has been an emergency approval.  

 

While I would prefer that the vaccine was made by Pfizer or Moderna, at this point in trying to control the pandemic, let's let science determine if--in the long run--one type of vaccine is better than the other.  

[AKJonesy]

12 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

To AKJonesy ... for those of us sailing to Alaska this summer aboard Nieuw Amsterdam, what can we expect in Juneau, Ketchikan and Sitka?

I talked to people in those communities.  What I know right now is that smaller cruise ships have been in port and on those ships people are disembarking on their own and are around town.  Everyone says it feels different without the big cruise ships.  In Juneau, the city bus is running and visitors are using it to get out to Mendenhall Glacier; well, close...you still have to walk a bit, but that is option.  Also, cabs are running.  You can also take the bus to go hiking, Douglas Beach, etc.  Some good restaurants are open as well as food trucks including Tracy's Crab Shack, Deckhand Daves for fish tacos, V's for Korean/Mexican fusion.  Alaska Brewing downtown does not seem to be open now but asks to keep checking back.  I'm trying to get a response from the Macaulay fish hatchery, but the website says it is closed but you can still see everything that was available from outside. The Mt. Roberts Tram is open in Juneau.  Some of the whale watching tours are open also.  I've heard Jayleens is good.   Sitka:  I recommend watching going to their website reading about what is open and watching the vid.  I have not been able to connect with anyone in Sitka and the FB page doesn't really tell much.  https://visitsitka.org/.  I'm still waiting to hear from Sitka CVB and Hoonah.  Here's a report from Ketchikan:  Ketchikan has been lively all during the pandemic. Totem Parks are open air, so definitely open. All restaurants open and most of the shops except the most cruise/touristy ones. Kayaking, charter boats, some wildlife excursions will be operating this summer with reduced schedules.Both the City Museum and Totem Heritage Center are open....not sure the hours on the Discovery Center yet. The buses are running in Ketchikan also.  https://www.kgbak.us/145/Transit.  When I have all of the information, I will repeat the info across the various boards.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, AKJonesy said:

Those with a strong position in favor of 100% vaccination rates may also be the people that bring down the cruise industry.  Many of the posts across these threads have a very hard line position.  As you said, we are never going to get there.  If you want 100% there are other options, and perhaps your cruising days are over on the big operators.  Hire a small private boat or stay home.  Even then, you have to travel on an airplane, go through and airport, and so forth.  I'm vaccinated and I realize there is no guarantee.  

Another way of looking at it is those who refuse vaccinations are the ones that will bring down the cruise industry. Everyone is welcome to make their own decision, but that does not mean decisions do not come with consequences. Just ask the hospital employees in Texas who just lost their court case about vaccinations being mandatory to their employment. The judge both dismissed their argument that "the experimental vaccines" were like the n a z i s experimenting on people in concentration camps and further went on to say they were free to look for other employment. 

[NavArch64]

To AKJonesy .... fabulous response .... Thank you.

[Hlitner]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, I see this as waffling on the part of the judge, saying on one hand that the CDC does have the authority to issue regulations regarding public health, but also saying that the CSO is overreach.  I read part of the ruling, and the judge acknowledges that the federal government, and the CDC have the authority to issue "free pratique" and to inspect and detain any and all vessels wishing to enter US waters, but says that the CSO requirements are unfair and burdensome.  Don't know where the judge draws the line on "burdensome", since the cruise lines have been building ships and buying special equipment for the entire food service, laundry, child care, recreational water facilities, and other areas of hotel service, to meet the CDC's requirements of the VSP for decades.  Wonder if that will be the next to go.  I also feel that the part where the judge makes any future conditions on sailing "non-binding" will be a point of appeal, given his acknowledgement of the federal authority to make the regulations.  I know my viewpoint is not popular, but I really don't care.

Great post and I can see your logic.  And it is because you speak your mind, without concern of being popular or flamed, that makes you such as valuable contributor to these boards.  It is always good to get the opinion of professional mariners since you guys/gals look at things through a different lens.

 

Hank

[nole01cruiser]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:35 PM, wdw1972 said:

I would prefer to have a ship where everyone's vaccinated, and life is normal like it was pre-covid.  However, if anyone regardless of status can book, then so be it - I'm still going.  I'm not worried about catching it or getting sick if I did catch it.  However, I'd just hope that if the unvaccinated pass it around onboard they get put off the ship at the nearest port, and the cruise goes on for the rest of us.  I'm long past the point of wanting to be inconvenienced to keep the anti-vax people safe.  A person who truly can't get it for medical reasons will most likely either stay home or stay masked up to protect themselves as much as possible.  I don't want to be wearing masks or enduring other restrictions because the ship can't ensure everyone is vaccinated - let the chips fall where they may.  

 

Sue/WDW1972

 

[nole01cruiser]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:35 PM, wdw1972 said:

I would prefer to have a ship where everyone's vaccinated, and life is normal like it was pre-covid.  However, if anyone regardless of status can book, then so be it - I'm still going.  I'm not worried about catching it or getting sick if I did catch it.  However, I'd just hope that if the unvaccinated pass it around onboard they get put off the ship at the nearest port, and the cruise goes on for the rest of us.  I'm long past the point of wanting to be inconvenienced to keep the anti-vax people safe.  A person who truly can't get it for medical reasons will most likely either stay home or stay masked up to protect themselves as much as possible.  I don't want to be wearing masks or enduring other restrictions because the ship can't ensure everyone is vaccinated - let the chips fall where they may.  

 

Sue/WDW1972

Probably the best comment on this Board!