Seatrade News - Coping With Florida’s Vaccine Passport Ban

[Cruising89143]

Photo of Captain Kate in front of Celebrity Edge.
 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/coping-floridas-vaccine-passport-ban-we-can-can-ask-we-cant-require

[ipeeinthepool]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens when they need to start canceling reservations to stay above the 95% vaccinated threshold.  

[Antropos]

43 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

It's going to be interesting to see what happens when they need to start canceling reservations to stay above the 95% vaccinated threshold.  

It's going to be interesting to see if we even get to know the actual numbers... that 95% threshold is self-imposed and is not externally monitored.

[ipeeinthepool]

29 minutes ago, Antropos said:

It's going to be interesting to see if we even get to know the actual numbers... that 95% threshold is self-imposed and is not externally monitored.

 

 I don't think so.  The CDC gave Celebrity two paths to resume service and Celebrity chose the path that didn't require test cruises but did require that at least 95% of passengers are vaccinated.

[Jeremiah1212]

59 minutes ago, Antropos said:

It's going to be interesting to see if we even get to know the actual numbers... that 95% threshold is self-imposed and is not externally monitored.

If they don’t keep the unvaccinated count below 5% they get their certificate pulled and can’t sail. It’s imposed with their agreement with the CDC and definitely monitored. 

[DirtyDawg]

32 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

 I don't think so.  The CDC gave Celebrity two paths to resume service and Celebrity chose the path that didn't require test cruises but did require that at least 95% of passengers are vaccinated.

I know this is a dumb question but it's early in the morning and I haven't had my first coffee of the day yet. ☕

If X can't make the passengers show documentation of their vaccination status prior to boarding, (for Florida departures) how can they make sure they sail with 95% fully vaccinated passengers? They can sail with people who say they are fully vaccinated but how do they prove that 95% of the passengers are actually fully vaccinated to the CDC? 

[Jeremiah1212]

7 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I know this is a dumb question but it's early in the morning and I haven't had my first coffee of the day yet. ☕

If X can't make the passengers show documentation of their vaccination status prior to boarding, (for Florida departures) how can they make sure they sail with 95% fully vaccinated passengers? They can sail with people who say they are fully vaccinated but how do they prove that 95% of the passengers are actually fully vaccinated to the CDC? 

 

You voluntarily show your card at check-in. If US cruises operate like SXM, they take a photo of the card. If you show your card, you are in the vaccinated group. If you can't or won't, you're in the unvaccianted 5% bucket. If the 5% bucket is full when you check-in, you'll probably be back to the airport before dinner. 

[WestLakeGirl]

 

[DirtyDawg]

8 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

You voluntarily show your card at check-in. If US cruises operate like SXM, they take a photo of the card. If you show your card, you are in the vaccinated group. If you can't or won't, you're in the unvaccianted 5% bucket. If the 5% bucket is full when you check-in, you'll probably be back to the airport before dinner. 

If the 5% bucket is filled can they put you off the ship under that Florida law without getting fined?

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[WestLakeGirl]

You wouldn’t be allowed on the ship at all, it appears.

[Babr]

10 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

If the 5% bucket is filled can they put you off the ship under that Florida law without getting fined?

 

They don’t put you off. Your status is determined before you get to the port. I suppose it is on a “space available” basis. If all reservations are filled, you are declined.

[DirtyDawg]

5 minutes ago, Babr said:

They don’t put you off. Your status is determined before you get to the port. I suppose it is on a “space available” basis. If all reservations are filled, you are declined.

But how is your status determined? Can X ask you to provide proof of your vaccination status and not run afoul of the Florida law?

[Babr]

Just now, DirtyDawg said:

But how is your status determined? Can X ask you to provide proof of your vaccination status and not run afoul of the Florida law?

Apparently so. See post #10. It refers you to another thread where people are discussing just that.

 

 

[johare]

 Emoji

45 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

If the 5% bucket is filled can they put you off the ship under that Florida law without getting fined?

 

Not sure, but I would think the number of guests not complying with the vaccine requirement would be very low and any number exceeding 5% would be minimal so if there are any fines, it wouldn't amount to much. Keep in mind the $5,000 is a maximum and not an automatic amount. Also, since this cruise was advertised with vaccination being a requirement for boarding, I would hope that anyone denied boarding for that reason would be denied without compensation or any sort of refund...which would help offset any penalty. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by johare

[Cruising89143]

20 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

But how is your status determined? Can X ask you to provide proof of your vaccination status and not run afoul of the Florida law?

When we booked the Equinox for August, we were asked by our Celebrity TA if we were “fully” vaccinated and if we would provide proof at check in. If you state “no” then you move to the unvaccinated group. She stated that Celebrity was reaching out to those that booked via the website to check their status. 

[JamieLogical]

33 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

But how is your status determined? Can X ask you to provide proof of your vaccination status and not run afoul of the Florida law?

 

You aren't required to show proof of vaccination, you are being asked to volunteer proof. If you do not volunteer proof, it's assumed you are not vaccinated and you go into the 5% bucket. If the 5% bucket is full, then you don't get to sail.

[shibby sails]

I am on the June 26th sailing if we sail. Its really pretty simple and novel what X is doing. They call you and ask if you would voluntarily state you have had the vaccine and would you bring your card as proof on embarkation. If not that is fine with them but you go on the unvaccinated list even if you are vaccinated and the penalties which they are allowed to access are stiff. You will not enjoy your cruise and it will be costly. This way they stay within the CDC 5% rule and the so called Florida law. This is not a pro or con vaccination post. It is what it is. Get vaccinated and enjoy your cruise. Don't get vaccinated and you can go on the cruise but you won't enjoy it. Your choice. You are not being denied anything either way, just have to follow rules. What a novel concept.

[Fredric22]

I honestly don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Celebrity said they will be sailing with fully vaccinated guests (95%) and that is what they will do. There are plenty of creative ways to get around the FL law. The cruise lines are HAPPY Florida has won the suit (so far) against the CDC. Do you think they want the possibility of having the entire industry shut down again? This case has more to do with the authority the CDC has than any kind of vaccine rule. I think the media is truly getting people confused. Carnival will also be sailing out of Florida in July and August with 95% vaccinated. Carnival isn't even pretending to try and comply with the FL law. There are obviously discussions happening behind the scenes between the cruise lines and the governor's office and none of us will ever know what is really discussed or agreed upon. At the end of the day, the governor, the local politicians, and the cruise lines all have the goal of getting the industry started up again. 

[Antropos]

3 minutes ago, cruisingator2 said:

When we booked the Equinox for August, we were asked by our Celebrity TA if we were “fully” vaccinated and if we would provide proof at check in. If you state “no” then you move to the unvaccinated group. She stated that Celebrity was reaching out to those that booked via the website to check their status. 

I am not from the US and have no idea how this legally works in FL, but what about the following scenario? A Celebrity sales rep reaches out to those who have booked and asks them "are you fully vaccinated and will you bring and voluntarily show proof at check-in"? A passenger who is not can still answer "yes, I am". Then when this person shows up at the terminal there will probably be some kind of indication on the check-in forms that this person will voluntarily show proof of vaccination. But since the person is not really vaccinated he/she is going to say "no, I am not showing proof". Per CDC regulations this person now has to be placed into the 'unvaccinated group'. What keeps this passenger from saying "I am vaccinated and you're not allowed to ask for proof; now, get me in the vaccinated group". 

 

This is just for argument's sake - I don't think (hope...) that there will be that many unvaccinated people trying to force their way into the vaccinated group, but given the fact there are also people creating fake vaccination cards, I wonder how in the end someone is going to determine if that threshold of 95% has been reached or not. 

 

And then there is the question of how to monitor this. If I am correct, the CDC cannot do any monitoring. If they ask Celebrity about vaccination levels and Celebrity says "yeah, we called everybody and we are confident that we reached 95%" then all the CDC can do is take Celebrity's word for it. Right? 

[JamieLogical]

8 minutes ago, Antropos said:

I am not from the US and have no idea how this legally works in FL, but what about the following scenario? A Celebrity sales rep reaches out to those who have booked and asks them "are you fully vaccinated and will you bring and voluntarily show proof at check-in"? A passenger who is not can still answer "yes, I am". Then when this person shows up at the terminal there will probably be some kind of indication on the check-in forms that this person will voluntarily show proof of vaccination. But since the person is not really vaccinated he/she is going to say "no, I am not showing proof". Per CDC regulations this person now has to be placed into the 'unvaccinated group'. What keeps this passenger from saying "I am vaccinated and you're not allowed to ask for proof; now, get me in the vaccinated group". 

 

This is just for argument's sake - I don't think (hope...) that there will be that many unvaccinated people trying to force their way into the vaccinated group, but given the fact there are also people creating fake vaccination cards, I wonder how in the end someone is going to determine if that threshold of 95% has been reached or not. 

 

And then there is the question of how to monitor this. If I am correct, the CDC cannot do any monitoring. If they ask Celebrity about vaccination levels and Celebrity says "yeah, we called everybody and we are confident that we reached 95%" then all the CDC can do is take Celebrity's word for it. Right? 

 

The CDC is definitely allowed to do monitoring. The ruling against the CDC in FL doesn't go into effect until July 18. So they definitely still haver purview over the Edge sailing this weekend and any other sailings before then. As for your hypothetical scenario with a passenger claiming they are being required to show proof and raising a fuss, I suspect that in those cases (if they happen), then Celebrity will just eat the $5000 fine.

[Babr]

The policy is pretty clear that one must confirm his status upon boarding. If one refuses at that point, then it is logical that the “space available” provision comes into play. 
 

In any case, it is still voluntary.

[Cruising89143]

2 minutes ago, Babr said:

It is a puzzle, but the cruise lines seem to be moving forward without objection.

I agree. No doubt the state is watching how the cruise lines are handling the vaccine requirements. We haven’t heard a peep out of the state on how this is being handled. If this process was not acceptable then I think we would have heard about it by now. 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

But how is your status determined? Can X ask you to provide proof of your vaccination status and not run afoul of the Florida law?

This is what Celebrity sent to me when I asked the same question earlier this week regarding my 7/31  EDGE cruise out of FLL.  In brief, they can post this in your ticket sleeve.  So, they are not requiring you to show proof of vaccination.  But, if you don’t provide it, you fall into the other 5% of unvaccinated passengers.  And, if that 5% is filled, it will be like being bumped from a flight.  You won’t even be allowed to board.  And hopefully, you got the best travel insurance you could buy to cover your trip home without cruising.

 

The health of our guests is of the utmost importance.  As such, your cruise will sail with 95% of guests being fully vaccinated by approved COVID vaccines.  All guests 16 and over must be fully vaccinated.  As of August 1, 2021, all guests age 12 and older must be fully vaccinated. We will require documentation of full vaccination from all guests who are eligible, in the form of an original vaccination card. Guests that decline to provide proof of vaccination or provide insufficient documentation will be considered unvaccinated and will have to adhere to additional requirements including SARS-CoV-2 testing (at their own expense), and additional protocols including wearing masks at all times on board except while eating, drinking or in their stateroom and while ashore. Testing will be complimentary for children who do not yet meet the age eligibility criteria to be vaccinated and for guests who are unable to be vaccinated.

 

 

[graphicguy]

32 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The CDC is definitely allowed to do monitoring. The ruling against the CDC in FL doesn't go into effect until July 18. So they definitely still haver purview over the Edge sailing this weekend and any other sailings before then. As for your hypothetical scenario with a passenger claiming they are being required to show proof and raising a fuss, I suspect that in those cases (if they happen), then Celebrity will just eat the $5000 fine.

If the hypothetical happens, Celebrity has been very clear, regardless of what you say on your pre-board health questionnaire, or what you say to your PCC/TA when booking about your vaccine status, if you do not provide the official proof at embarkation of the COVID vaccine, you will be considered “unvaccinated”. 

 

Whether you claim to have had the vaccine when registering to cruise or not, if you claim you don’t have to show your proof at the pier, you are considered unvaccinated.

Edited June 23, 2021 by graphicguy

[Cruising89143]

3 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

If the hypothetical happens, Celebrity has been very clear, regardless of what you say on your pre-board health questionnaire, or what you say to your PCC/TA when booking about your vaccine status, if you do not provide the official proof of the COVID vaccine, you will be considered “unvaccinated”. 

 

Whether you claim to have had the vaccine when registering to cruise or not, if you claim you don’t have to show your proof at the pier, you are considered unvaccinated.

This is exactly what we were told.