Judge Denied CDC request to keep Covid-19 Cruising restrictions.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

Sigh.  The constant opinion of the CDC’s role keeps being misconstrued.  Here is a basic link from HHS (which the CDC is under) of the role the CDC has regarding restricting travel.  
 

https://www.hhs.gov/answers/public-health-and-safety/who-has-the-authority-to-enforce-isolation-and-quarantine/index.html

[ontheweb]

19 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Not quite.  Haha.  The cruise lines didn't join the lawsuit because they will always have to deal with the CDC.  Do you seriously think they want to be shut down again and lose billions more dollars based on the CDC's strict infection requirements?  Really?  What business wants the threat of losing billions more?  Oh yeah, they want those restrictive rules in place.  Right.  That's why they are in place with airlines, subways, trains, and buses.  Oh wait, they aren't.

We were on planes this past Monday and Friday. We had to wear masks. The CDC has required that. They are not requiring that for vaccinated passengers on cruise ships. Where are the complaints about that? The cruise lines and the CDC were beginning to work together when Florida filed this suit. The suit only complicated things, though it looks like the cruise lines were going to keep their protocols in place even if the original ruling was not overturned. They want SAFETY; they do not want the bad publicity of another outbreak on a ship.

 

And I agree that they do not want another shutdown. And that would occur if they cannot show that cruises can be safely done at this time.

[TNcruising02]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We were on planes this past Monday and Friday. We had to wear masks. The CDC has required that. They are not requiring that for vaccinated passengers on cruise ships. Where are the complaints about that? The cruise lines and the CDC were beginning to work together when Florida filed this suit. The suit only complicated things, though it looks like the cruise lines were going to keep their protocols in place even if the original ruling was not overturned. They want SAFETY; they do not want the bad publicity of another outbreak on a ship.

 

And I agree that they do not want another shutdown. And that would occur if they cannot show that cruises can be safely done at this time.

Yes, they require masks on airplanes, but not testing and vaccinations.  Therefore, you will be flying with people who have covid. If the CDC was really trying to prevent spread, they would require testing before flights.  However, they do not.  The airlines were never shut down, even though that was the obvious most likely form of spread.  Anyway, it is what it is.  The CEO out of Port Canaveral said that the cruise lines didn't join the suit because they had to keep dealing with the CDC.  He said that he felt the lawsuit helped move things forward.  

Edited July 18, 2021 by TNcruising02

[DGNewton]

BOOM...time to let precautions take precedence over stupidly of those that deceive....

 

CDC is in control in FLorida - BOOM

[jimbo5544]

42 minutes ago, DGNewton said:

BOOM...time to let precautions take precedence over stupidly of those that deceive....

 

CDC is in control in FLorida - BOOM

Boom politics do not belong here, boom it only goes to the next court.  Boom check your facts boom, boom, boom

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

We were on planes this past Monday and Friday. We had to wear masks. The CDC has required that. They are not requiring that for vaccinated passengers on cruise ships. Where are the complaints about that? The cruise lines and the CDC were beginning to work together when Florida filed this suit. The suit only complicated things, though it looks like the cruise lines were going to keep their protocols in place even if the original ruling was not overturned. They want SAFETY; they do not want the bad publicity of another outbreak on a ship.

 

And I agree that they do not want another shutdown. And that would occur if they cannot show that cruises can be safely done at this time.

The suit started everything, without the suit we would be discussing the potential of resuming.  If that is “complicating” things, I wills end another thank you to the governor.  The CDC’s version of safety is to make sure sailing does not occur, because that is what they have always wanted.  No sailing, no worries.   So said the judge.  I have not read the 2-1 decree yet, but this was never going to be the final step.  

[MrMarc]

46 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Boom politics do not belong here, boom it only goes to the next court.  Boom check your facts boom, boom, boom

Oh, I didn't know we could add sound effects. POP

[DGNewton]

Boom any unvaccinated out  BOOM

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

15 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Oh, I didn't know we could add sound effects. POP

I think the sound effects are the only part of the message that makes any sense.  

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

The suit started everything, without the suit we would be discussing the potential of resuming.  If that is “complicating” things, I wills end another thank you to the governor.  The CDC’s version of safety is to make sure sailing does not occur, because that is what they have always wanted.  No sailing, no worries.   So said the judge.  I have not read the 2-1 decree yet, but this was never going to be the final step.  

We're going to disagree. The proven efficacy of the vaccines started the potential of resuming. Florida (and note not the cruise lines) only complicated things especially with there can't ask about vaccinations or deny for lack of vaccinations only complicated things.

 

The cruise lines want to sail safely and with no bad publicity. To do this they have to have rules, some of which may not be appreciated by passengers. And they would rather blame the CDC for the rules than have passengers blame them. And they would not have to be jumping through all the procedures to try to discourage non-vaccinated passengers that they are using if not for the interference of Florida.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Yes, they require  on airplanes, but not testing and vaccinations.  Therefore, you will be flying with people who have covid. If the CDC was really trying to prevent spread, they would require testing before flights.  However, they do not.  The airlines were never shut down, even though that was the obvious most likely form of spread.  Anyway, it is what it is.  The CEO out of Port Canaveral said that the cruise lines didn't join the suit because they had to keep dealing with the CDC.  He said that he felt the lawsuit helped move things forward.  

We're going to have to disagree on this on several points.

 

I think the cruise lines did not join the lawsuit because they want to sail safely and know they have to have rules some of which passengers may not like and they would rather blame the rules on the CDC than have passengers blame them.

 

Also, I think it was the proven efficacy of the vaccines that moved things forward and possibly some pressure from Congress. I think the fact that the filing of the lawsuit and the timing of the moving forward was just coincidental.

 

Both of course are JMHO.

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Also, I think it was the proven efficacy of the vaccines that moved things forward and possibly some pressure from Congress.

The proven efficacy of the vaccine isnt helping alot with respect to what vaccinated individuals can be doing.  I still require 3 tests to travel to the US (1 going and 2 coming back).  Driving factors are still locked on how the unvaccinated figure into all of this. 

[arkaine23]

52 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We're going to have to disagree on this on several points.

 

I think the cruise lines did not join the lawsuit because they want to sail safely and know they have to have rules some of which passengers may not like and they would rather blame the rules on the CDC than have passengers blame them.

 

Also, I think it was the proven efficacy of the vaccines that moved things forward and possibly some pressure from Congress. I think the fact that the filing of the lawsuit and the timing of the moving forward was just coincidental.

 

Both of course are JMHO.

I agree.  CDC's CSO is a phased return to cruising.  6 month's after its release came FL's suit and also the technical requirements/revision.  Seemed like availability of vaccines and % of the population vaccinated were the key benchmarks to get to the current stage.  Florida man's antics, IMO, just puffing his chest for political points timed to take some of the credit for what was already in progress, and push it along as much as courts would allow.  Congress unanimously passed ATRA to salvage the Alaska season, so seems clear that restart this summer was always the goal, barring any unforseen setbacks with regards to the disease situation.

 

Cruising isn't an essential form of travel from point A to B like a bus, train, or plane.  Its a closed loop vacation in tight quarters that often lasts a week.  Its not helpful to compare apples to oranges.  CDC isn't alone in the world in restricting it or structuring its resumption.  It necessarily involves the requirements of the destination countires as well, some of which in the Caribbean for example are still disallowing it.

Edited July 19, 2021 by arkaine23
Spelling

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

We're going to disagree. The proven efficacy of the vaccines started the potential of resuming. Florida (and note not the cruise lines) only complicated things especially with there can't ask about vaccinations or deny for lack of vaccinations only complicated things.

 

The cruise lines want to sail safely and with no bad publicity. To do this they have to have rules, some of which may not be appreciated by passengers. And they would rather blame the CDC for the rules than have passengers blame them. And they would not have to be jumping through all the procedures to try to discourage non-vaccinated passengers that they are using if not for the interference of Florida.

LOL, we can disagree, it is just fine.  It is clear the cruise lines want to succeed and safely.  I also agree they are doing so with the CDC RULES.  They always wanted to work together.  The side that did not want to come to the table is the CDC.  Their actions clearly demonstrated they thought the best way was for the lines not to sail.  For 6 months they sat on their hands and did virtually nothing.  

 

Each cruise line is choosing their path in the return to the sea.  They are not (now) blaming the CDC, all the want, all they have ever wanted, was the opportunity to participate in the path to do just that.  The CDC kept them from that.  I will move on.

[jimbo5544]

26 minutes ago, arkaine23 said:

I agree.  CDC's CSO is a phased return to cruising.  6 month's after its release came FL's suit and also the technical requirements/revision.  Seemed like availability of vaccines and % of the population vaccinated were the key benchmarks to get to the current stage.  Florida man's antics, IMO, just puffing his chest for political points timed to take some of the credit for what was already in progress, and push it along as much as courts would allow.  Congress unanimously passed ATRA to salvage the Alaska season, so seems clear that restart this summer was always the goal, barring any unforseen setbacks with regards to the disease situation.

 

Cruising isn't an essential form of travel from point A to B like a bus, train, or plane.  Its a closed loop vacation in tight quarters that often lasts a week.  Its not helpful to compare apples to oranges.  CDC isn't alone in the world in restricting it or structuring its resumption.  It necessarily involves the requirements of the destination countires as well, some of which in the Caribbean for example are still disallowing it.

Every country’s health organization save 2 were willing to work openly and as a result it worked (BEFORE A VACCINE).  The CDC and Australia said no.  Look at the time line and actions.  It is clear who made the the impasse end, whether you see it or not, the facts do not lie.  

[ontheweb]

34 minutes ago, arkaine23 said:

I agree.  CDC's CSO is a phased return to cruising.  6 month's after its release came FL's suit and also the technical requirements/revision.  Seemed like availability of vaccines and % of the population vaccinated were the key benchmarks to get to the current stage.  Florida man's antics, IMO, just puffing his chest for political points timed to take some of the credit for what was already in progress, and push it along as much as courts would allow.  Congress unanimously passed ATRA to salvage the Alaska season, so seems clear that restart this summer was always the goal, barring any unforseen setbacks with regards to the disease situation.

 

Cruising isn't an essential form of travel from point A to B like a bus, train, or plane.  Its a closed loop vacation in tight quarters that often lasts a week.  Its not helpful to compare apples to oranges.  CDC isn't alone in the world in restricting it or structuring its resumption.  It necessarily involves the requirements of the destination countires as well, some of which in the Caribbean for example are still disallowing it.

Thank you for filling in details to what I had previously posted.

 

And I so agree with your statement that comparing the start of cruising with other means of transportation is like comparing apples and oranges. There are separate rules because there are differing circumstances and differing problems involved with each.

[ProgRockCruiser]

15 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

If the CDC was really trying to prevent spread, they would require testing before flights.

They do, for all in-bound international flights.

 

They knew that wasn't tenable for domestic travel, so they did the next-best thing - Mask Mandate.  It was a compromise, but since interstate travel is easy and common via other private methods (cars), it was deemed the best acceptable solution.

[arkaine23]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Every country’s health organization save 2 were willing to work openly and as a result it worked (BEFORE A VACCINE).  The CDC and Australia said no.  Look at the time line and actions.  It is clear who made the the impasse end, whether you see it or not, the facts do not lie.  

To be fair I did say Florida's goal was to push things along, and didn't deny their lawsuit could have added some pressure to do just that.  I implied they could have started this pushing anytime between November and March (or even earlier during the NSO), but they chose to do so at the end of April.  I mean by that point even if they had outright lost the lawsuit, they could still claim victory when cruising resumed this summer by having pushed.  I also implied the framework was pretty clearly in motion for a summer restart, vaccines were/would be a key factor, and the final necessary details for certifying ships from the CDC landed in May.  Florida's timing is suspect.  Were they really the force of change or were they jumping on the coattails at the last minute to take some credit?  Is there even merit to continuing to fight the CSO when cruising has already resumed under the CSO?  Because Florida wants there to be no binding CSO, and for the industry to regulate itself in regards to health and safety.  Cruiselines on the other hand seem to be ok with the CDC's guidelines now that they have reasonable paths to resume operations SAFELY. And at least one line has beef with Florida's Vaccine Passport ban.

 

UK's also just started their phased approach.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by arkaine23

[cruiseracer]

17 hours ago, DGNewton said:

BOOM...time to let precautions take precedence over stupidly of those that deceive....

 

CDC is in control in FLorida - BOOM

LOL. Do as I say... (18 hours ago)

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by cruiseracer

[TNcruising02]

15 hours ago, DGNewton said:

Boom any unvaccinated out  BOOM

You may be mistaken about the unvaccinated not being able to cruise.  The CDC allows up to 5% unvaccinated to cruise.  They will allow unlimited unvaccinated to cruise as long as the cruise lines do test cruises.  Your impression about the unvaccinated not being able to cruise is misguided.  This lawsuit isn't about vaccine passports.  You might want to look into the Norwegian lawsuit, which is.  Boom.

Edited July 19, 2021 by TNcruising02

[DGNewton]

6 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

You may be mistaken about the unvaccinated not being able to cruise.  The CDC allows up to 5% unvaccinated to cruise.  They will allow unlimited unvaccinated to cruise as long as the cruise lines do test cruises.  Your impression about the unvaccinated not being able to cruise is misguided.  This lawsuit isn't about vaccine passports.  You might want to look into the Norwegian lawsuit, which is.  Boom.

BOOM chicken chicken dinner it ain't over yet non VAX!

 

Do a VAX cruise (with) or seek common sense.....but then again you can't take stupid out of stupid or those that won't look in the mirror.....

 

 

[TNcruising02]

2 hours ago, DGNewton said:

BOOM chicken chicken dinner it ain't over yet non VAX!

 

Do a VAX cruise (with) or seek common sense.....but then again you can't take stupid out of stupid or those that won't look in the mirror.....

 

 

Um, I am vaccinated.  LOL.

[BlerkOne]

Carnival has stated they intend to continue with vaccinated cruises for the next few months at a minimum. The suit continues to be irrelevant.

[songbird1329]

There’s a reason why the cruise lines didn’t join the suit …

[MrMarc]

14 minutes ago, songbird1329 said:

There’s a reason why the cruise lines didn’t join the suit …

Yes.  It's almost like they know what they are doing better than we do.