Judge Denied CDC request to keep Covid-19 Cruising restrictions.

[Joe817]

9 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Yes.  It's almost like they know what they are doing better than we do.

Yup. 

[TNcruising02]

36 minutes ago, songbird1329 said:

There’s a reason why the cruise lines didn’t join the suit …

It should be common sense that the cruise lines supported a lawsuit to START CRUISING AGAIN.  It's funny that some people actually think the cruise lines were fine with being shut down and losing billions of dollars without the opportunity to use precautions like every other business.


"But Port Canaveral CEO John Murray, who attended Thursday’s hearing, said afterward that the federal rules are “way overly burdensome,” though he said no cruise companies joined DeSantis’ lawsuit because the industry still has to work with the Centers for Disease Control long into the future."

Edited July 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

44 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

It should be common sense that the cruise lines supported a lawsuit to START CRUISING AGAIN.  It's funny that some people actually think the cruise lines were fine with being shut down and losing billions of dollars without the opportunity to use precautions like every other business.


"But Port Canaveral CEO John Murray, who attended Thursday’s hearing, said afterward that the federal rules are “way overly burdensome,” though he said no cruise companies joined DeSantis’ lawsuit because the industry still has to work with the Centers for Disease Control long into the future."

John Murray is not associated with any cruise line. To keep quoting him isn't going to change that fact.

 

Another fact is NCL is suing Florida over the illegal vaccine passport ban. That's a funny way to support the Desantis lawsuit. Carnival has stated they intend to keep running vaccinated cruises. Another funny way to support the Desantis lawsuit.

[BlerkOne]

I see that in fact, NCL HAS joined the suit on the side of CDC.

 

"The 2-1 decision by the U.S. Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals judges was a win for the CDC and, by extension, Norwegian Cruise Lines, which filed an amicus brief in this case."

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I see that in fact, NCL HAS joined the suit on the side of CDC.

 

"The 2-1 decision by the U.S. Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals judges was a win for the CDC and, by extension, Norwegian Cruise Lines, which filed an amicus brief in this case."

That is interesting. Do you have a cite for that?

 

It would be nice if Carnival  and Royal Caribbean (the parent companies, not just those cruise lines) also showed that they sided with the CDC in the suit by Florida. The fact that they did not join Florida in the suit was telling. They want to start, but safely and with rules that if passengers complain they can say are the "fault" of the CDC, not them.

[jimbo5544]

29 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

That is interesting. Do you have a cite for that?

 

It would be nice if Carnival  and Royal Caribbean (the parent companies, not just those cruise lines) also showed that they sided with the CDC in the suit by Florida. The fact that they did not join Florida in the suit was telling. They want to start, but safely and with rules that if passengers complain they can say are the "fault" of the CDC, not them.

If they are making decisions on whom to blame when they fail, than that would be the real story.  I think CCL and RCCL chose wisely, they are cruising and NCL is not, that is the real fact here. 

[songbird1329]

Here’s the thing.  
 

When Florida filed suit, the cruise lines were already working with the CDC to get the industry moving again.

 

so let’s assume Florida’s victory was not stayed by the appellate court.  Assume the restrictions were lifted tomorrow.  Assume the CDC dictates have now morphed into “guidance” and ‘recommendations”.

 

what do you think the cruise lines would do?

 

My guess?  They’d follow the CDC recommendations…

[songbird1329]

I mean, can you imagine a cruise line choosing to ignore CDC guidelines, then having a COVID outbreak on board?  
 

the fallout would be massive.   Bad publicity, lawsuits …

 

and the first question asked in each lawsuit?  Why didn’t you follow CDC protocols?

[songbird1329]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

That is interesting. Do you have a cite for that?

 

It would be nice if Carnival  and Royal Caribbean (the parent companies, not just those cruise lines) also showed that they sided with the CDC in the suit by Florida. The fact that they did not join Florida in the suit was telling. They want to start, but safely and with rules that if passengers complain they can say are the "fault" of the CDC, not them.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2021/07/18/appeals-court-sides-with-cdc-norwegian-cruise-lines-over-desantis-on-vaccination-rules/

[DGNewton]

10 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Um, I am vaccinated.  LOL.

Then pay for the insurance which half the people do regardless, get pre-tested and post tested, plus other test on-board.  Ports disembarkation is to the county.  

 

 

[songbird1329]

The Miami Herald thinks the CDC is right and DeSantis is out of his mind

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article252879403.html

[DGNewton]

5 minutes ago, ericfromri said:

in the case of cruising, CDC is correct.  it should  ONLY be VACCINATED.

Agreed....stay the course until the Pandemic is controlled, which is going to be a long time!

I respect if someone doesn't want the VAX, but they need to be tested for the protection of others and the cruise industry.

Big picture - the cruise line does not want to start and fail. 

[TNcruising02]

59 minutes ago, DGNewton said:

Then pay for the insurance which half the people do regardless, get pre-tested and post tested, plus other test on-board.  Ports disembarkation is to the county.  

 

 

I am vaccinated, have an annual travel insurance plan, and always arrive at the port a day before the cruise.  If Carnival requires testing, I will get it.  I have no issue with following rules.  Thanks for playing.

[kdr69]

1 hour ago, DGNewton said:

Then pay for the insurance which half the people do regardless, get pre-tested and post tested, plus other test on-board.  Ports disembarkation is to the county.  

 

 

They dont need to pay for the insurance or get tested pre post or otherwise if they are vaccinated.  Those are unvaccinated protocols.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

Here’s the thing.  
 

When Florida filed suit, the cruise lines were already working with the CDC to get the industry moving again.

 

so let’s assume Florida’s victory was not stayed by the appellate court.  Assume the restrictions were lifted tomorrow.  Assume the CDC dictates have now morphed into “guidance” and ‘recommendations”.

 

what do you think the cruise lines would do?

 

My guess?  They’d follow the CDC recommendations…

That they were already beginning to work together is what everyone who gives Florida credit for getting the ball rolling has been ignoring. It is the fact that the vaccines have shown such real world efficacy is the reason that the CDC could begin to work with the cruise lines.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2021/07/18/appeals-court-sides-with-cdc-norwegian-cruise-lines-over-desantis-on-vaccination-rules/

Ok, I see that the article does mention that Norwegian filed an amicus brief in support of the CDC. I had seen that posted on these boards, but not the citation.

[crewsweeper]

41 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

That they were already beginning to work together is what everyone who gives Florida credit for getting the ball rolling has been ignoring. It is the fact that the vaccines have shown such real world efficacy is the reason that the CDC could begin to work with the cruise lines.

Except the wheels of the CDC turn very very slowly. Too slow for the 24/7/365 media.

[ericfromri]

in the case of cruising, CDC is correct.  it should  ONLY be VACCINATED.   whoever flagged the first post, good lucckkkkk!!!!!

Edited July 20, 2021 by ericfromri

[TNcruising02]

2 hours ago, ericfromri said:

in the case of cruising, CDC is correct.  it should  ONLY be VACCINATED.   whoever flagged the first post, good lucckkkkk!!!!!

As a public service announcement, that is not what the CDC is saying. For some reason people think because the CDC is able to continue with their strict rules and regulations and can shut down the industry if it doesn't meet their standards, that they are mandating only vaccinated cruises.  That is not the case.  It's the Norwegian lawsuit that wants vaccination passports.

"Per the CDC's Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, not all cruises in U.S. waters will mandate that passengers to be vaccinated. Some cruise ships, which will undergo test cruises before being permitted to sail with paying passengers, will not be required by the health agency to mandate vaccines. Other ships will be able to bypass test cruises by enforcing a 95% vaccination rate for crew and passengers."

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

Except the wheels of the CDC turn very very slowly. Too slow for the 24/7/365 media.

The CDC's mission is to prevent diseases from entering the country. It should err on the side of caution.

 

Also, the CDC has more things to deal with than cruise lines. Some people in these forums seem to believe they should drop everything else and focus on getting cruises from US ports going.

[TNcruising02]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

The CDC's mission is to prevent diseases from entering the country. It should err on the side of caution.

 

Also, the CDC has more things to deal with than cruise lines. Some people in these forums seem to believe they should drop everything else and focus on getting cruises from US ports going.

Covid is already in the country, so managing a virus that may be around for decades is more reasonable than trying to prevent a virus that is already in the country from entering the country.  Requiring covid tests before traveling would be a more productive move than only focusing on the cruising industry as a means for spread.  Vaccinated people can get covid, so making special exceptions just for the vaccinated doesn't solve the problem.  

Before anyone gets on a plane, ship, train, or bus, they should have to submit a negative covid test, but that isn't happening.  Excessive rules for only one industry isn't going to even make a dent in a pandemic that raged while that industry was completely shut down

[Babr]

14 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Covid is already in the country, so managing a virus that may be around for decades is more reasonable than trying to prevent a virus that is already in the country from entering the country.  Requiring covid tests before traveling would be a more productive move than only focusing on the cruising industry as a means for spread.  Vaccinated people can get covid, so making special exceptions just for the vaccinated doesn't solve the problem.  

Before anyone gets on a plane, ship, train, or bus, they should have to submit a negative covid test, but that isn't happening.  Excessive rules for only one industry isn't going to even make a dent in a pandemic that raged while that industry was completely shut down

You don’t seem to be taking into account that testing is required for international travel. Cruise ships go to other countries that have their own policies for admitting travelers.

 

International flights do require testing. If there are busses and trains that cross borders, I expect testing is also required.  
 

I don’t know that cruise ships are being singled out in that regard. They are subject to other regulations because people eat, sleep, and mingle in the confines of a ship for several days while also going ashore and mingling with locals.

Surely you can see the difference.

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, arkaine23 said:

Belief is a funny thing.  Many people have an opinion about facts.  Its a matter of critical thinking, education, and world view/beliefs.

Facts are facts.  What and whether people have a belief in them is relative, usually based upon preconceptions.  An example is the cdc did nothing for 6 months.  That is a fact. We can disagree on why they did that.  In my opinion it has little  or anything to do with critical thinking, but just why.  

[jimbo5544]

36 minutes ago, Babr said:

You don’t seem to be taking into account that testing is required for international travel. Cruise ships go to other countries that have their own policies for admitting travelers.

 

International flights do require testing. If there are busses and trains that cross borders, I expect testing is also required.  
 

I don’t know that cruise ships are being singled out in that regard. They are subject to other regulations because people eat, sleep, and mingle in the confines of a ship for several days while also going ashore and mingling with locals.

Surely you can see the difference.

I have traveled internationally recently.  The airline required nothing.  The place I was traveling to has all the requirements.  Of course  cruise lines are being treated differently.  

[Babr]

9 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have traveled internationally recently.  The airline required nothing.  The place I was traveling to has all the requirements.  Of course  cruise lines are being treated differently.  

Semantics. Testing was required to get on the flight to the destination requiring it. Not required for domestic travel.

 

Now, how else is a cruise ship different from an airplane. See my previous post.