No vaccine mixing allowed in US… I hope this changes very very quickly 😱

[MR_T]

It’s on the celebrity website now! 

[ipeeinthepool]

I'm sorry that a combination of vaccines is affecting some cruisers, but maybe those people shouldn't consider themselves fully vaccinated.   I'm not aware of any studies that document the effectiveness of mixing the vaccines.  Sounds like a reasonable policy to me.

[pixiedust777]

5 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I'm sorry that a combination of vaccines is affecting some cruisers, but maybe those people shouldn't consider themselves fully vaccinated.   I'm not aware of any studies that document the effectiveness of mixing the vaccines.  Sounds like a reasonable policy to me.

Studies that have been completed in Europe have proven that mixing AZ with Moderna or Pfizer have a higher immunity than those with a double AZ, Pfizer or Moderna shot.

Many Countries in the EU and Canada mixed vaccines when AZ was pulled from use.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

Edited July 17, 2021 by pixiedust777

[ipeeinthepool]

3 minutes ago, pixiedust777 said:

Studies that have been completed in Europe have proven that mixing AZ with Moderna or Pfizer have a higher immunity than those with a double AZ, Pfizer or Moderna shot.

Many Countries in the EU and Canada mixed vaccines when AZ was pulled from use.

 

This is my last post on this because I don't want any problems.  According to this article it sounds like the EU doesn't even know what to recommend about mixed vaccines.  I think the CDC is making the right call.

 

 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-says-90-virus-circulation-be-delta-variant-by-end-august-2021-07-14/

[MR_T]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I'm sorry that a combination of vaccines is affecting some cruisers, but maybe those people shouldn't consider themselves fully vaccinated.   I'm not aware of any studies that document the effectiveness of mixing the vaccines.  Sounds like a reasonable policy to me.

There have been studies out of the uk, Canada and I believe Germany that back the mixing of vaccines

[schiff1997]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I'm sorry that a combination of vaccines is affecting some cruisers, but maybe those people shouldn't consider themselves fully vaccinated.   I'm not aware of any studies that document the effectiveness of mixing the vaccines.  Sounds like a reasonable policy to me.

Canada states we are fully vaccinated!  

[ipeeinthepool]

1 minute ago, schiff1997 said:

Canada states we are fully vaccinated!  

 

That's probably good enough in Canada.

[Ken the cruiser]

So far I haven't seen any posts today where "mixed vaccine" guests boarding the Edge were moved to the unvaccinated queue. Hopefully, this continues to be the case until this issue either (1) gets resolved or (2) Celebrity at least allows enough lead time for the applicable folks on future sailings to either resolve the issue or cancel their flights rather than being told at the last minute when they try to board. I know we're scheduled to sail in 3 weeks and so far all we've told Celebrity is that we're fully vaccinated and have received no word about this new "mixed vaccine" restriction.

[Fouremco]

3 hours ago, pixiedust777 said:

Studies that have been completed in Europe have proven that mixing AZ with Moderna or Pfizer have a higher immunity than those with a double AZ, Pfizer or Moderna shot.

Many Countries in the EU and Canada mixed vaccines when AZ was pulled from use.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

 

1 hour ago, MR_T said:

There have been studies out of the uk, Canada and I believe Germany that back the mixing of vaccines

Therein lies the problem. None of the studies have been conducted in the US so they will be ignored by the CDC, at least for the time being. 

[schiff1997]

37 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

That's probably good enough in Canada.

And good enough for us to enter the USA 

[ipeeinthepool]

1 minute ago, schiff1997 said:

And good enough for us to enter the USA 

 

At least you have that going for you.  I thought you could fly into the US for quite some time and you didn't even need to be vaccinated.  Is that correct?

[markeb]

19 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

 

Therein lies the problem. None of the studies have been conducted in the US so they will be ignored by the CDC, at least for the time being. 

I don’t think any of the studies are actual clinical trials. And it’s the FDA that approved the labels under Emergency Use. And the FDA that would review clinical trials to change the EUA. Not the CDC. 
 

I don’t see any changes on the CDC’s information pages. But it hasn’t been handled well. 

[schiff1997]

8 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

At least you have that going for you.  I thought you could fly into the US for quite some time and you didn't even need to be vaccinated.  Is that correct?

You are probably right on that,  I haven’t travelled anywhere since we got home on March 1st 2020.  

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, markeb said:

I don’t think any of the studies are actual clinical trials. And it’s the FDA that approved the labels under Emergency Use. And the FDA that would review clinical trials to change the EUA. Not the CDC. 
 

I don’t see any changes on the CDC’s information pages. But it hasn’t been handled well. 

We are on the same page, as I recognize the respective responsibility areas of the FDA and the CDC. When I said that the CDC would ignore European studies, I meant in the absence of FDA clinical trials coming to the same conclusions. 

[lobsternight]

I am kind of glad this topic is still open.  Dw and I are both 2 dose AZ, although it was almost a mix with Mondera.  One kid has M and the other has Pfizer.  I will now be very diligent that they recieve the matching second dose after reading this thread.

[nocl]

20 hours ago, markeb said:

 

They did. All the authorized (still waiting for one to be licensed) vaccines are authorized based on the same vaccine being used for both doses (if required). That's how the data was collected. IF, for instance, Health Canada were to authorize a protocol using Moderna followed by Pfizer (or vice versa), then I would assume the cruise lines would accept that based on their previous policy, but that isn't where we're at.

 

There's a lot of technical discussion beyond that, and in keeping with current CC guidance, I'll stay away from that. This was kind of predictable...

I believe that these changes effect US based cruises.

 

The issue is that CDC has stated that they will accept any authorized by FDA EUA or WHO emergency authorization.  No combinations are authorized by either agency.  Health Canada's view does not matter, unless the cruises were leaving from Canada.

 

Not clear about cruises leaving from the EU.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

Therein lies the problem. None of the studies have been conducted in the US so they will be ignored by the CDC, at least for the time being. 

None of the studies are the scope of clinical trials needed for review and EUA by either the FDA or WHO.  They are all pretty small scale of at most a few hundred patients such as the one in Spain.  Maybe Phase i level at best.

 

You also have the study in the UK that indicates that side effects were, in general, worse for those that received two different vaccines compared to those with the same vaccine.

[poffles]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:48 PM, RickT said:

The OP brings up a good point.  I was fortunate enough to get the Pfizer vaccine first and when it came time to get my second dose Pfizer was in short supply and it was being recommended that I could mix and match and should get the readily available Moderna vaccine.

 

I did my own research and while many countries are doing that it was clear that many countries weren’t and like the US it seems they won’t consider you fully vaccinated.  To that end I held out for Pfizer and am pleased to say I’m now fully vaccinated.

 

While it’s possible the US and other countries will eventually recognize mixed doses… it’s possible they won’t.  And while I’m pleased with the effort the Canadian Government has done to get vaccines into Canadians I am disappointed that this possible issue is never mentioned.

 

 

 

I did the exact same thing.  Kept at it until I could get my 2nd shot moved up but only if matched my initial Pfizer shot.  I am fortunate to now be fully vaccinated Pfizer both shots.  I am glad we had some level of choice.

 

This is all so messed up now and sad for anyone that falls into this terrible category, especially those that were thrown a curve ball after getting the AstraZeneca that was previously being 'promoted'.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

You also have the study in the UK that indicates that side effects were, in general, worse for those that received two different vaccines compared to those with the same vaccine.

Yet in Canada, with thousands of recipients of mixed doses, there have been no reports of negative side effects of significance. As you say, the European studies were all pretty small scale compared to the Canadian experience.

[nocl]

4 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Yet in Canada, with thousands of recipients of mixed doses, there have been no reports of negative side effects of significance. As you say, the European studies were all pretty small scale compared to the Canadian experience.

Unfortunately all that experience was not documented and submitted for review by the WHO. There was not a protocol to collect such data when they decided to go the mixed vaccine route.  They might be able to go to WHO and design a retroactive study based upon medical records review and comparison between those receiving combinations vs same vaccine.  Looking at the infection rate between the two groups as well as medical conditions after being vaccinated. Not as good as a properly designed randomized trial, but but make for an acceptable substitute with  a large enough sample size and appropriate data design.

 

But no sign that they are considering doing that.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by nocl

[poffles]

On 7/16/2021 at 6:08 PM, MR_T said:

just seen this on the FB cruise critic page… 😱 no mixed vaccines allowed for US departures or arrivals… via cruise ships. 
 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6302/ 

 

so far celebrity hasn’t announced anything but a few other lines have confirmed this. 

 

The article doesn't mention if Celebrity/Royal have altered their policy, is it known for sure if they are doing the same?

[Ken the cruiser]

2 minutes ago, poffles said:

 

The article doesn't mention if Celebrity/Royal have altered their policy, is it known for sure if they are doing the same?

See post #23

[poffles]

6 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

See post #23

 

Ooops thanks I missed that and also crap this is bad.

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, nocl said:

Unfortunately all that experience was not documented and submitted for review by the WHO. There was not a protocol to collect such data when they decided to go the mixed vaccine route.  THey might be able to go to WHO and design a retroactive study based upon medical records review and comparison between those receiving combinations vs same vaccine.  Looking at the infection rate between the two groups as well as medical conditions after being vaccinated.

 

But no sign that they are considering doing that.

 

 

Agreed, with the priority of getting as many people vaccinated as possible being the driving force, little or no thought was given to documenting and submitting results to the WHO. And AFAIK, you are right, there's been no mention of doing so retroactively. On the other hand, the GOC is aware of the issue and is addressing it now. International travel and the need to have mutual vaccine acceptance is becoming a high priority, one from which cruising Canadians with mixed doses will hopefully benefit.

[MR_T]

29 minutes ago, Fouremco said: