No vaccine mixing allowed in US… I hope this changes very very quickly 😱

[MR_T]

16 minutes ago, tert333 said:

This blog has been very good at getting the message out to people on cruisecritic of the issue around mixed doses. 

 

There has been a lot of articles around mixing doses today, one of which referenced a blogger from cruisecritic.  CTV news in Canada has picked it up.  The Toronto Star has an article. For those in Toronto, it was on cp24 this morning.  This is all good as it is putting a spotlight on the issue. 

 

The only thing we can do is put pressure on our elected officials and the TA/Cruiselines to work on getting the appropriate approvals and ignore the negative comments of why this can not happen.   I would encourage you to contact your leaders and let them know this is an issue.  I do believe something will happen if we keep the attention on this.  At the end of the day, the cruiselines want as many customers as possible, so they have a vested interest in allowing us to cruise.  

 

If we do not say another, nothing will change.

 

 

Unfortunately there’s always going to be people post negatively as it’s an easy way to increase their post numbers as I feel this makes the sad people feel better about their sad existence! 😂 

[Jeremiah1212]

The US and Canadian websites have been updated to reflect that Celebrity will accept mixed does of only Moderna and Pzifer vaccines.  

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[tert333]

2 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

The US and Canadian websites have been updated to reflect that will accept mixed does of only Moderna and Pzifer vaccines.  

Thats great news.   We are almost there! 

[leafsnation]

Thats great news. Thanks for posting!

Bob

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

The US and Canadian websites have been updated to reflect that Celebrity will accept mixed does of only Moderna and Pzifer vaccines.  

 

 

While this is one step, it´s not more than just a baby step.

The remaining guideline still causes a problem for millions and millions of people in countries where mixing the vaccine after an initial dose of AstraZeneca was common practise.

A second step would be to clarify if the guideline only applies to the US - where the CDC has jurisdiction - or also to other countries.

 

Currently ships in Europe are sailing from the UK and Greece with a good number of UK and EU citizens.  Mixing the vaccine was not just common practise in the EU but even highly recommended after the AZ problems.

We are booked on Apex for September. Currently we couldn´t go since we received mixed vaccines. We would have to cancel our flights etc. - not all of it is rufundable. 
If Celebrity decides to stick to a CDC regulation in areas where the CDC has no jurisdiction (EU/Geece) according to EU laws they would have to refund the cost to us.

 

[PalmTreesSway]

2 hours ago, tert333 said:

Thats great news.   We are almost there! 

I called Celebrity today an th

 

2 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

The US and Canadian websites have been updated to reflect that Celebrity will accept mixed does of only Moderna and Pzifer vaccines.  

 

I just spoke to Celebrity on the telephone and this is the exact opposite of what they told me when I called to clarify - they said no mixed vaccines period. Clearly they have inconsistencies in what they're communicating. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by PalmTreesSway
updated info

[richardsavage]

2 minutes ago, PalmTreesSway said:

I called Celebrity today an th

 

I just spoke to Celebrity on the telephone and this is the exact opposite of what they told me when I called to clarify - they said no mixed vaccines period.

Yeah, it is a big, confused mess for now. Hopefully it will get clearer and standard in the next few days/weeks.

 

[JRG]

On 7/19/2021 at 5:30 AM, TeeRick said:

I do think the situation might be resolved through discussions and identifying an agreed path forward. Possibly not an easy path. It is an unusual situation.  Needs a solution. 

 

They have to do clinical trials....I can see no other way (but one) ...or much of what the CDC has done has been for naught.  This is about reliance and public confidence worldwide potentially,  not just Canada or the US.   A desperate move would be to wait and evaluate new cases and see if Mixed Dosage recipients are new cases and then make a 'statistical or inferential' decision based on a large enough sample size and still you are talking time.    

 

The Canadian cruise re-opening AND the US border reopening could both be in jeopardy.  (or it could all change in a NY minute too!).

 

But,

 

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

 

No Excuse.  Canadian travelers now need to plan with extreme flexibility.   This hurts the Canadian ports ability to persuade Cruiselines that they will be ready because even if they are,   the US PAX may not be willing to take the chance on flaky port visits due to start-up miseries.

 

p.s.   this is a mission critical topic for cruisers and the thread and I too am comfortable discussing my thoughts and developing solutions.   I believe it helps manage the expectations and that is all we can do right now anyways.   

 

You can't ignore or poo-poo it's significance.

 

 

 

[Jeremiah1212]

8 minutes ago, PalmTreesSway said:

I called Celebrity today an th

 

I just spoke to Celebrity on the telephone and this is the exact opposite of what they told me when I called to clarify - they said no mixed vaccines period. Clearly they have inconsistencies in what they're communicating. 

 

Calling the reservations call center to get up to date info (within 12 hours of a change being posted) isn't the best way to stay in the loop by a long shot. This updated info is on the Celebrity website and on the TA's Healthy Cruising Hub where all of the current protocols are outlined. 

[richardsavage]

7 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

They have to do clinical trials....I can see no other way (but one) ...or much of what the CDC has done has been for naught.  This is about reliance and public confidence worldwide potentially,  not just Canada or the US.   A desperate move would be to wait and evaluate new cases and see if Mixed Dosage recipients are new cases and then make a 'statistical or inferential' decision based on a large enough sample size and still you are talking time.    

 

The Canadian cruise re-opening AND the US border reopening could both be in jeopardy.  (or it could all change in a NY minute too!).

 

But,

 

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

 

No Excuse.  Canadian travelers now need to plan with extreme flexibility.   This hurts the Canadian ports ability to persuade Cruiselines that they will be ready because even if they are,   the US PAX may not be willing to take the chance on flaky port visits due to start-up miseries.

 

p.s.   this is a mission critical topic for cruisers and the thread and I too am comfortable discussing my thoughts and developing solutions.   I believe it helps manage the expectations and that is all we can do right now anyways.   

 

You can't ignore or poo-poo it's significance.

 

 

 

 

Directly from https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines.html

 

NACI recommends that while either an AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD COVID-19 vaccine or an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine product may be offered for the subsequent dose in a vaccine series started with an AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD COVID-19 vaccine, an mRNA COVID-19 product is preferred as a subsequent dose, due to emerging evidence, including the possibility of better immune response, and the safety of heterologous schedules. Regardless of which product is offered, a complete two-dose series is important for protection; the previous dose should be counted, and the series need not be restarted. Individuals who receive two doses of the AstraZeneca/COVISHIELD vaccine are considered protected and do not require further vaccination.

[JRG]

okay,  thanks.

 

Good to know NACI has things apparently under control.

 

[richardsavage]

we just need to wait and watch if and how will the US and Canada will find common grounds. With the borders opening to US residents in Canada in August, I expect this will get clarified soon. (Let's cross our fingers, I don't want to cancel my cruise 🙂 )

[kirtihk]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, pixiedust777 said:

Yep…..just weeks out and the CDC pulls this.

What will happen to those boarding today as the new policy just came out yesterday 😡😱

Do you think they (not cruise lines, of course) care?  There is 0 logic here, because logic is prohibited now as we all aware.  I really don't understand why any cruise subject is discussed in all threads within last 16 months - it's absolutely pointless and waste of time and efforts.  I talked to my cruise agent (not even sure though whether I may still call him a "cruise agent"), and he is sick to his stomach beyond of comprehension.

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, Miaminice said:

 

While this is one step, it´s not more than just a baby step.

The remaining guideline still causes a problem for millions and millions of people in countries where mixing the vaccine after an initial dose of AstraZeneca was common practise.

A second step would be to clarify if the guideline only applies to the US - where the CDC has jurisdiction - or also to other countries.

 

Currently ships in Europe are sailing from the UK and Greece with a good number of UK and EU citizens.  Mixing the vaccine was not just common practise in the EU but even highly recommended after the AZ problems.

We are booked on Apex for September. Currently we couldn´t go since we received mixed vaccines. We would have to cancel our flights etc. - not all of it is rufundable. 
If Celebrity decides to stick to a CDC regulation in areas where the CDC has no jurisdiction (EU/Geece) according to EU laws they would have to refund the cost to us.

 

Why not just get another vaccination after speaking with your doctor to make sure it is OK.  Niece in Holland did exactly that.

Celebrity is operated out of the US and likely can make whatever rules they want.

[Charles4515]

41 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

 

It appears that Canada wanted to get the vaccinations going and protecting the most vulnerable. I doubt that they thought about effects on Canadians having a problem taking cruises who are  a small percentage of the population. Hopefully it will be sorted out but if Canadians can't cruise for a while it is not the end of the world. None of us have been able to cruise for over year and a half. If giving all the on hand supply as first doses and delaying the second doses saved lives the decision was good even if some can't cruise for now....

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

Your ignorance of what decisions were made in Canada, why they were made and by whom they were made is astonishing. Even worse is your ludicrous  suggestion that Health Canada needed to talk to the CDC before making its decision. As you say, you don't know the details. I suggest that you spend a lot more time conducting research on the issues at hand and a lot less time writing absolute drivel.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Fouremco

[scottbee]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

 

Why would Canada's Health system need permission from a US Government department before progressing on what has been a highly successful vaccine rollout?

After some global concerns on bloodclots from AZ, Canada opted to offer an mRNA dose as the 2nd dose to a lot of people.  It also (based on global input) offered an alternate mRNA for your 2nd dose based on availability.

 

As a smaller country without domestic vaccine production, Canada's initial vaccine rollout was hindered by other countries intercepting Canada's purchased vaccines, for those countries to use for their own domestic consumption.

In summary, Canadians will have received;

AZ + AZ = OK

Pf + Pf = OK

Mod + Mod = OK
Pf + Mod = OK for cruise lines, however some countries have issues 

Mod + Pf = OK for cruise lines, however some countries have issues 
AZ + Pf = not accepted by cruise lines/some countries
AZ + Mod = not accepted by cruise lines/some countries

And Canada is not the only country that has mixed vaccines.  I believe it's common in Mexico as well

[rodndonna]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.  

 

Indeed - you are not remotely familiar with the details..... 

 

[DirtyDawg]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

It appears that Canada wanted to get the vaccinations going and protecting the most vulnerable. I doubt that they thought about effects on Canadians having a problem taking cruises who are  a small percentage of the population. Hopefully it will be sorted out but if Canadians can't cruise for a while it is not the end of the world. None of us have been able to cruise for over year and a half. If giving all the on hand supply as first doses and delaying the second doses saved lives the decision was good even if some can't cruise for now....

 Well said. 👍👍

[Miaminice]

17 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Why not just get another vaccination after speaking with your doctor to make sure it is OK.  Niece in Holland did exactly that.

Celebrity is operated out of the US and likely can make whatever rules they want.

 

First of all the problem is that there´s no approval of a third shot. So whatever the doctor in the Netherlands did is against official guidance and approval. Otherwise it would have been my plan B as well.

Not quite correct about Celebrity and the US... In our case we booked with Celebrity Germany. They are bound to EU/German consumer laws. They can cancel or change their rules... sure. 

However, if it is not backed by local regulations (and mixed vaccines are accepted in the EU and Greece, the country where the cruise is sailing) they have to reimburse you for cost unless it´s force majeure. A company decision to apply a CDC guideline where it doesn´t need to be applied is not force majeure.  

[DirtyDawg]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

....The Public Health system of Canada needed to talk to the CDC before it gave whatever permission or instructions to mix the dosage.   I don't know the details but from what I am reading Canadians felt they were given the okay to get a second dosage of anything that was available.  Did they see it on TV or was it social media?.    Didn't the Canadian physicians question this.   This is a potential global travel hurdle for Canadians.

 

 

I'm not going to pile on.

I think you meant to say something else in your first sentence. 😉

[gold1953]

35 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Your ignorance of what decisions were made in Canada, why they were made and by whom they were made is astonishing. Even worse is your ludicrous  suggestion that Health Canada needed to talk to the CDC before making its decision. As you say, you don't know the details. I suggest that you spend a lot more time conducting research on the issues at hand and a lot less time writing absolute drivel.

I was biting my tongue .. well said!!  Thank you. 

[K_e_short]

9 minutes ago, gold1953 said:

I was biting my tongue .. well said!!  Thank you. 

I agree.

 

 

[JRG]

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

I'm not going to pile on.

I think you meant to say something else in your first sentence. 

 

Yes Thanks,  I knew from the Molson and CC chaser comment you see the light. 

 

Some  correspondence between Canada and the CDC might have prevented the confusion,   there and here.   Maybe it happened maybe it didn't.   WHO knows?

 

Thank you to those of you biting your tongue,  if you have a reasonable point go ahead and ask a question.

 

Would Canada do it differently it they had to do it again?   I say they would do it differently.  

 

I think at a personal level I would have questioned somebody trying to give me a non-matching second dose; but then I have worked in a number of hospitals across the US.

 

A simple text exchange or diplomatic exchange beforehand seems like it would have prevented the problem,   maybe yes,  maybe no.  (that is what I meant by speak).   

 

 

[JRG]

3 hours ago, rodndonna said:

Indeed - you are not remotely familiar with the details..... 

You are absolutely right,   I am not remotely familiar with who said what in your province and frankly I could care less about it and I am not sure why you are even making a stink over it.

 

I am familiar with what I read here from Canadian cruisers who face this dillema.  They are cruisers from your country.

 

All you can do is manage your expectations,   or let somebody else manage them for you.