EdmundXXIII Posted July 24, 2021 #101 Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said: Outright lie there my friend Um, that is literally what happened. We can debate all day whether what the CDC did was right. (I think it was absurd.) But denying the facts of what they, in real life, did… that’s crazy talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted July 24, 2021 #102 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Just now, jimbo5544 said: I will leave the politics of congress to others I can't see the high courts doing anything with this. Seems more of a not liking the outcome of exercising of authority, not that the authority doesn't exist. There are already plenty of solutions if people want to change that and going to the court with a lazy "but it's too hard defense" isn't likely to spark motivation to step in. There is no constitutional crisis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted July 24, 2021 #103 Share Posted July 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: I am not disagreeing but have you seen what some of the congressmen are saying and doing? 🙂 Not sure what you are referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare AtSeaWithChris Posted July 24, 2021 #104 Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said: If you test positive before debarking from a cruise, you are required to quarantine and not fly. I am not disagreeing but That statement seems too much like a blanket statement. Where is the exact ruling you are referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare AtSeaWithChris Posted July 24, 2021 #105 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said: Not sure what you are referring to? there was one that said an island might tip over if too many people went to one side. There are many many more things that our lawmakers say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted July 24, 2021 #106 Share Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said: I can't see the high courts doing anything with this. Seems more of a not liking the outcome of exercising of authority, not that the authority doesn't exist. There are already plenty of solutions if people want to change that and going to the court with a lazy "but it's too hard defense" isn't likely to spark motivation to step in. There is no constitutional crisis. I agree. I cannot think of how they can find a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted July 24, 2021 #107 Share Posted July 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: I am not disagreeing but That statement seems too much like a blanket statement. Where is the exact ruling you are referring to? If you traveled by air to join your cruise and test positive at embarkation and are not able to cruise – or test positive during the debark testing – you may be required to quarantine before traveling home. While Carnival will help make quarantine arrangements, all guests are responsible for expenses associated with quarantine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare AtSeaWithChris Posted July 24, 2021 #108 Share Posted July 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said: I can't see the high courts doing anything with this. Seems more of a not liking the outcome of exercising of authority, not that the authority doesn't exist. There are already plenty of solutions if people want to change that and going to the court with a lazy "but it's too hard defense" isn't likely to spark motivation to step in. There is no constitutional crisis. The only thing that concerns me is that the government doesn't like to lose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted July 24, 2021 #109 Share Posted July 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, EdmundXXIII said: Um, that is literally what happened. We can debate all day whether what the CDC did was right. (I think it was absurd.) But denying the facts of what they, in real life, did… that’s crazy talk. It's not even about right or wrong, it's a matter of authority. Not liking the outcome of that authority isn't the same thing as them not having it to make. People in positions of authority make unpopular decisions all the time. Doesn't make those decisions illegal just because some, or even many, disagree with them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail Posted July 24, 2021 #110 Share Posted July 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, EdmundXXIII said: Um, that is literally what happened. We can debate all day whether what the CDC did was right. (I think it was absurd.) But denying the facts of what they, in real life, did… that’s crazy talk. So I must have dreamed it was a certain governor that prohibited disembarkment of a highly infected cruise ship? I’ll provide links. You’ll provide what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailingships Posted July 24, 2021 #111 Share Posted July 24, 2021 18 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said: That cruise ship didn't leave from the US. US cruising was shut down from March 2020 until June 2021, I believe. That is ridiculous. The CDC put them in a March 2020 Covid box and didn't want to let them out. It was overreach and completely unnecessary to shut them down for that period of time. Yes the middle of March. We got off the Breeze Feb 29 Those B2B cruises were normal no mention that the cruise lines might close down. April 1 was my first cancellations. The Legend was not going to Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare AtSeaWithChris Posted July 24, 2021 #112 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 minute ago, BlerkOne said: If you traveled by air to join your cruise and test positive at embarkation and are not able to cruise – or test positive during the debark testing – you may be required to quarantine before traveling home. While Carnival will help make quarantine arrangements, all guests are responsible for expenses associated with quarantine. Yes, I have seen that. That wording was may, not must or required. It depends on any local, state, or federal regulations vs recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted July 24, 2021 #113 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 minute ago, AtSeaWithChris said: The only thing that concerns me is that the government doesn't like to lose. That's what elections are for, politicians don't like to lose (power) but they will have to get over themselves. We are the government and get the government we deserve for we give them authority with our votes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted July 24, 2021 #114 Share Posted July 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: there was one that said an island might tip over if too many people went to one side. There are many many more things that our lawmakers say. Yup, actually said sink, but the point remains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare AtSeaWithChris Posted July 24, 2021 #115 Share Posted July 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said: Outright lie there my friend umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Cruiser Posted July 24, 2021 #116 Share Posted July 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise. Yep. It certainly seemed to get them actually moving towards a plan to allow cruise ships to sail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailingships Posted July 24, 2021 #117 Share Posted July 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said: If you traveled by air to join your cruise and test positive at embarkation and are not able to cruise – or test positive during the debark testing – you may be required to quarantine before traveling home. While Carnival will help make quarantine arrangements, all guests are responsible for expenses associated with quarantine. But how would Carnival know? The vaccinated arent tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayj130 Posted July 24, 2021 #118 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, AtSeaWithChris said: Not much science or the CDC would not have lost in 2 courts, so far, when challenged. The courts aren't ruling on the science. They are ruling on the basis of scope and authority. What the CDC is or isn't allowed to impose. The science is pretty simple. Vaccines, mask etc. slow the spread of viruses. This is known medical science. The courts aren't disputing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted July 24, 2021 #119 Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise. No we wouldn't. And if Americans had followed simple instructions last year, we would have been cruising sooner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail Posted July 24, 2021 #120 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 minute ago, AtSeaWithChris said: umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise. Good to know Florida politicians have so much influence that a pending suit (at the time cruising did start domestically) led to the slow/sensible start schedule we currently are experiencing. Congrats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted July 24, 2021 #121 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 minute ago, sailingships said: But how would Carnival know? The vaccinated arent tested. If they are symptomatic, they are. If they are doing a b2b they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNcruising02 Posted July 24, 2021 #122 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said: umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise. Even the CEO of Port Canaveral said that the lawsuit helped move things forward. Anyone who has read the lawsuit can see what the cruise lines faced when dealing with the CDC over the past 1 1/2 years. The goal post always moved. I think the people who are not siding with Florida may have never even read the lawsuit. It's pretty bad when a lawsuit has to be filed just to try to get an entire industry back open after being completely shut down for 1 1/2 years. No government entity should be powerful enough to shut down an industry the way the CDC did to the cruise industry for the amount of time they did. They should have issued guidance like they did with the other industries. The cruise lines lost billions of dollars, had to sell ships, and were bleeding. Thankfully, DeSantis had the guts to stand up for them. Edited July 24, 2021 by TNcruising02 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailingships Posted July 24, 2021 #123 Share Posted July 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said: No we wouldn't. And if Americans had followed simple instructions last year, we would have been cruising sooner. I wore a mask everywhere I only left my house 2 times a month to go to the grocery store. I social distanced and seldom saw my grandchildren. Im an American and I followed every instruction simple and otherwise but I still had 20 cruises cancelled, .What more should i have done in order to cruise sooner? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail Posted July 24, 2021 #124 Share Posted July 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said: Thankfully, DeSantis had the guts to stand up for them. Always taking a stand & making sound decisions: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-ship-coronavirus-zaandam https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jacksonville.com/amp/112255994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDN Posted July 24, 2021 #125 Share Posted July 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said: No government entity should be powerful enough to shut down an industry the way the CDC did to the cruise industry for the amount of time they did. Thankfully, DeSantis had the guts to stand up for them. It seems like there is a lot of CDC this and CDC that while ignoring the rest of the world where many cruise lines that never call here also shut down for some time and most of their home ports had less cases than we did. That is because it was the correct decision. You are assuming that the cruise lines wanted to stay operating during that time (they didn't). If they wanted to stay operating, they would have fought for it. Luckily they were in a strong position to weather the storm and that was better to them than the risk of continuing operations. You also ironically say that "No government entity" should have the power to shut down an industry while praising a state "government entity" forcing them to fully open when they know they aren't ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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