U.S. appeals court lifts CDC cruise ship restrictions in win for Florida

[AtSeaWithChris]

14 minutes ago, SDN said:

CCL is down after hours since this broke. The only thing keeping cruise stocks in the game is their cautious approach. If they opened up 100% capacity tomorrow with no testing and unlimited unvaccinated, the bottom would fall out. Everyone knows another shutdown and they're toast.

There stock market is fickle and acts like lemmings. But at least they are free to plot their own course like other business.

[cruisingguy007]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

We'll see.  Now the cruise ships can operate with 90% vaccinated if they choose to do so without doing test cruises.  So we will see if the stock starts creeping up once more cruise ships are in operation, more exemptions can be granted, and more families can cruise without rescheduling or cancelling.  The tight noose of the CDC has been removed.  We will just have to see how the cruise lines ease back into to operations, but at least the CDC isn't going to be able to just shut the industry down again.

 

So who will have oversight and deal with pandemics and such? Will it fall on FL and other individual states? Can they handle such a responsibility when most states declare a emergency for basically everything (floods, fires, annual weather etc)? That part still doesn't square with me and no one has answered that even though many have suggested they can police themselves. There has to be some level of government intervention for global or national events. What does that look like and who is in charge of that?    

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

What's crazy to me is that people can fly without even taking a covid test and sit within inches of another person for hours.  The CDC was fine with it and is still fine with it, yet the risk is high.  Cruising was singled out and shut down.  Very hypocritical since it's obvious that sitting within inches of a covid positive person for hours on end is high risk.

The air on planes is exchanged every 2-3 minutes and masks are required for all. It is not at all obvious that it is high risk.

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

What's crazy to me is that people can fly without even taking a covid test and sit within inches of another person for hours.  The CDC was fine with it and is still fine with it, yet the risk is high.  Cruising was singled out and shut down.  Very hypocritical since it's obvious that sitting within inches of a covid positive person for hours on end is high risk.

These are not normal times we are living in.

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

The other issue is what if they stop following the CDC rules and the rules are reinstated?  I don't think they will change anything they are not forced to until the Supreme Court rules.

This should be decided by the Supreme court

[TNcruising02]

Just now, cruisingguy007 said:

 

So who will have oversight and deal with pandemics and such? Will it fall on FL and other individual states? Can they handle such a responsibility when most states declare a emergency for basically everything (floods, fires, annual weather etc)? That part still doesn't square with me and no one has answered that even though many have suggested they can police themselves. There has to be some level of government intervention for global or national events. What does that look like and who is in charge of that?    

 

The industry had a right to operate safely and not lose BILLIONS of dollars because the CDC treated the cruise lines like they were super spreaders from March 2020.  And yet, the airlines never skipped a beat.  Untested and unvaccinated people continue to crowd on planes, buses, and trains. Those industries never risked getting shut down when they are responsible for the majority of the spread.  It was wrong for the CDC to try to bankrupt one industry  based on fear and not facts.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Not at all. 

On this we agree

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 

The industry had a right to operate safely and not lose BILLIONS of dollars because the CDC treated the cruise lines like they were super spreaders from March 2020.  And yet, the airlines never skipped a beat.  Untested and unvaccinated people continue to crowd on planes, buses, and trains. Those industries never risked getting shut down when they are responsible for the majority of the spread.  It was wrong for the CDC to try to bankrupt one industry  based on fear and not facts.

Cruising shutdown worldwide.  CDC had nothing to do with that.

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

So who will have oversight and deal with pandemics and such? Will it fall on FL and other individual states? Can they handle such a responsibility when most states declare a emergency for basically everything (floods, fires, annual weather etc)? That part still doesn't square with me and no one has answered that even though many have suggested they can police themselves. There has to be some level of government intervention for global or national events. What does that look like and who is in charge of that?    

The CDC is not without power. They can most certainly stop any group of people from coming to the country if there is a virus that breaks out in alarming numbers. They just can't say "you can't sail" or "you can only sail if you do a, b, and c. That is not in their scope of power.

[jimbo5544]

45 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

They have said they were going to sail 100% vaccinated, I do not see how that is possible now.  In fact, I don't see how Carnival will be able to keep their 95%/5% in Florida now.  And the fact that the rules are subject to change at any time leaves the public with no faith in what the Cruise lines will actually do.

Rhey hve done absolutely nothing to suggest that the cruise lines would so anything other than the right thing.   

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

This should be decided by the Supreme court

Doubt it will. Congress could easily make the CDC authority crystal clear. Game over.

[jimbo5544]

51 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Pfft, you make it sound like it's a bad thing. LOL. Investors like money, nothing wrong with that, you seem sensitive. 

The point is they have been bleeding profusely since last month. 

[jimbo5544]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 

The industry had a right to operate safely and not lose BILLIONS of dollars because the CDC treated the cruise lines like they were super spreaders from March 2020.  And yet, the airlines never skipped a beat.  Untested and unvaccinated people continue to crowd on planes, buses, and trains. Those industries never risked getting shut down when they are responsible for the majority of the spread.  It was wrong for the CDC to try to bankrupt one industry  based on fear and not facts.

Bingo

[SDN]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 And yet, the airlines never skipped a beat.  

Domestic air travel fell by 60% and International by 74% but other than that.

Edited July 24, 2021 by SDN
.

[cruisingguy007]

9 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 

The industry had a right to operate safely and not lose BILLIONS of dollars because the CDC treated the cruise lines like they were super spreaders from March 2020.  And yet, the airlines never skipped a beat.  Untested and unvaccinated people continue to crowd on planes, buses, and trains. Those industries never risked getting shut down when they are responsible for the majority of the spread.  It was wrong for the CDC to try to bankrupt one industry  based on fear and not facts.

 

Still doesn't answer the question. Who should have oversight over a pandemic? This won't be the last one or last global or national event. If not the CDC, who?  

Edited July 24, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, SDN said:

Domestic air travel fell by 60% and International by 74% but other than that.

Right, but the airlines were never shut down, made to do test flights, required to test unvaccinated passengers or anything like what the CDC did to the cruise industry.  Can you imagine how much the airlines would have lost if they had been shut down?  The CDC did it to the cruise industry just because they could and let covid rage through airline travel.

Edited July 24, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, SDN said:

Domestic air travel fell by 60% and International by 74% but other then that.

and domestic had bailouts, again.

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Still doesn't answer the question. Who should have oversight over a pandemic? This won't be the lst one or last global or national event. If not the CDC, who?  

The CDC should have issued guidance, but not shut them down.  As long as the CDC had their strict requirements, which we know were based off of March 2020 data before vaccines and treatments, then the industry still risked being shut down again.

Edited July 24, 2021 by TNcruising02

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

and domestic had bailouts, again.

And I was so pleased american turned a profit. 

 

I'm not flying anytime soon.

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Still doesn't answer the question. Who should have oversight over a pandemic? This won't be the last one or last global or national event. If not the CDC, who?  

The cdc, and not over step.  The original judge  was very clear on how they screwed it up.  Do the job correctly and the world would be just fine.  

[sailingships]

5 minutes ago, SDN said:

Domestic air travel fell by 60% and International by 74% but other then that.

Yes but they probably had less trouble receiving any necessary loans due to the fact they were operating though at a diminished capacity. They were at least still in business.

[Lee Cruiser]

35 minutes ago, SDN said:

CCL is down after hours since this broke. The only thing keeping cruise stocks in the game is their cautious approach. If they opened up 100% capacity tomorrow with no testing and unlimited unvaccinated, the bottom would fall out. Everyone knows another shutdown and they're toast.

CCL was down all day today.  It has been a roller coaster for days, but mostly down, about  25% lately.  Has nothing to do with this news.

[Lee Cruiser]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Doubt it will. Congress could easily make the CDC authority crystal clear. Game over.

Not likely to happen.  Too many would not support giving the CDC more power.

[cruisingguy007]

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

The cdc, and not over step.  The original judge  was very clear on how they screwed it up.  Do the job correctly and the world would be just fine.  

 

So feckless suggestions that the lines are free to ignore? Basically, police themselves ultimately? To what end? No matter what or is there a situation that you could fathom that may be too much for them to handle or in our national security interests to have some federal oversight or ultimate control to halt sailing?  

[SDN]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Right, but the airlines were never shut down, maybe to do test flights, required to test unvaccinated passengers or anything like what the CDC did to the cruise industry.  Can you imagine how much the airlines would have lost if they had been shut down?  The CDC did it to the cruise industry just because they could and let covid rage through airline travel.

It may be because a lot of business needs air travel and a cruise isn't essential. Planes have HEPA filters and aggressive air handling. Last year, I flew double masked and with eye protection. There were studies done that showed planes were safe for short periods. I believe a ship 3 days out to sea would be a lot more of a risk but I could be wrong about that.