Canadian cruisers to USA ports: vaccine challenges w/ cruise lines (inc Celebrity)

[nocl]

1 hour ago, truckswain said:

Yes case counts  have fluctuated and some provinces are seeing increases.  I would completrly agree smaller case counts is due to a number of factors and just not vaccines.  However declining hospitalizations and deaths amid a  rise in case counts is directly related to vaccination.  So whatever combination of dosing has led to full vaccination is working period.

 

And the CDC/FDA stating I am not fully vaccinated is insulting and reinforces the ignorance and uselessness of these two organizations.  There is a big world out there thst extends beyond the US borders.

The World Health Organization agrees with FDA since they also do not accept vaccine combinations as being fully vaccinated.  No one has produced the information and submitted it to either authority for review.

 

While the CDC used either WHO or FDA, the EU does not accept WHO, only those approved by its regulatory authority the EMEA.  Every country in the EU accepts those authorized by the EMEA, but it is up to each country in Europe for those that EMEA has not approved.

 

For example in the case of some such as those AZ lots that were produced in India (which some people in Canada received) the EMEA has not certified that manufacturing location, so those lots are not acceptable to the EMEA and as a result some countries in the EU will not accept those lots as proof of vaccination (Italy, Portugal and Poland for example)

 

Some EU countries also do not recognize vaccine combinations.  For example Ireland does not consider someone to be fully vaccinated with mixed doses (atleast as of Aug 10).  Some EU countries do, some do not.

 

When someone gets around to doing the required studies and assembling the data an AZ first shot with a Moderna or Pfizer second shot will most likely get approval, because indications are that  such a combination is better than two AZ (which WHO recognizes).  It just has to be supported by the appropriate registration trials.

Edited August 14, 2021 by nocl

[redtop101]

So, I go back to my previously posted copy of a slide from Princess Cruises. This indicates the confusion and inconsistency that exists in the cruising industry, not only in the US, but worldwide. So, is Princess the only cruise line that accepts mixed vaccinations for boarding their ships in US waters, and not only that, they are accepting AstroZenica vaccines as proof of fully vaccinated, per FDA/WHO/CDC guidelines. 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by redtop101

[truckswain]

47 minutes ago, nocl said:

The World Health Organization agrees with FDA since they also do not accept vaccine combinations as being fully vaccinated.  No one has produced the information and submitted it to either authority for review.

 

While the CDC used either WHO or FDA, the EU does not accept WHO, only those approved by its regulatory authority the EMEA.  Every country in the EU accepts those authorized by the EMEA, but it is up to each country in Europe for those that EMEA has not approved.

 

For example in the case of some such as those AZ lots that were produced in India (which some people in Canada received) the EMEA has not certified that manufacturing location, so those lots are not acceptable to the EMEA and as a result some countries in the EU will not accept those lots as proof of vaccination (Italy, Portugal and Poland for example)

 

Some EU countries also do not recognize vaccine combinations.  For example Ireland does not consider someone to be fully vaccinated with mixed doses (atleast as of Aug 10).  Some EU countries do, some do not.

 

When someone gets around to doing the required studies and assembling the data an AZ first shot with a Moderna or Pfizer second shot will most likely get approval, because indications are that  such a combination is better than two AZ (which WHO recognizes).  It just has to be supported by the appropriate registration trials.

To clarify, the WHO did not agree with the FDA, the WORLD Health Organization does not take its advice from one countries regulatory body. The WHO has not supported nor spoken out against mixed vaccines.  One of their scientist was mis-quoted when she was talking about 3rd doses/boosters and was not speakiing about the mixing of viral vector and mRNA vaccines.

 

Mixing and matching vaccines,  known as heterologous prime-boost vaccination, is nothing new and started many years ago with HIV research.  It is a proven method and Covid vaccines are no different.

 

My point all along has been I can sail from Greece (or Canada, Germany etc., etc., ) and be considered fully vaccinated but if I sail the same cruise line from the US I am not considered fully vaccinated.  

 

It is just dumb and it is organizations like the CDC that are part of tne problem and not the solution.

 

 

[bEwAbG]

1 hour ago, redtop101 said:

So, I go back to my previously posted copy of a slide from Princess Cruises. This indicates the confusion and inconsistency that exists in the cruising industry, not only in the US, but worldwide. So, is Princess the only cruise line that accepts mixed vaccinations for boarding their ships in US waters, and not only that, they are accepting AstroZenica vaccines as proof of fully vaccinated, per FDA/WHO/CDC guidelines. 
 

 

 

 

 

Not really understanding the point you're trying to make with this slide.  It says they will accept mixed vaccinations only if you have also gotten 2 mRNA shots (not just a single one), which is also what Celebrity is doing AFAIK (based on the 2 mRNA shots, if they were administered within the specified timelines).

 

Also, the Princess website currently says this:

 

In accordance with health authority guidance, guests who have received one single dose of a vector vaccine (e.g. AstraZeneca) and only one single dose of a mRNA vaccine (e.g. Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna) will not be considered fully vaccinated. Guests who have received two doses of a vector vaccine or two single doses of mixed mRNA vaccines will be considered fully vaccinated and will be permitted to sail, so long as the final dose is received at least 14 days prior to the beginning of the cruise.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, redtop101 said:

So, I go back to my previously posted copy of a slide from Princess Cruises. This indicates the confusion and inconsistency that exists in the cruising industry, not only in the US, but worldwide. So, is Princess the only cruise line that accepts mixed vaccinations for boarding their ships in US waters, and not only that, they are accepting AstroZenica vaccines as proof of fully vaccinated, per FDA/WHO/CDC guidelines. 
 

 

 

 

The other cruise lines are pretty much the same as far as US departures are concerned.

 

Other cruise lines are accepting mixed Pfizer and Moderna.

 

The AZ with 2 mRNA is basically a completed mRNA series with the AZ not really even part of the consideration.  I suspect that they list it just to indicate the the 3 shot does not invalidate the completed mRNA series.

 

The cruise lines also accept the completed AZ series as that is accepted by WHO.

[K_e_short]

5 hours ago, AlbertaCruisers said:

@cachoutonacruise - Just as a note, I have friends in both Ontario and Alberta that have tried to get 3rd doses and they were not allowed to do so.  The government still wants to push to get everyone first and second doses and won't allow thirds.  

 

I can confirm this. I am in Ontario. I wrote to Doug Ford, Christine Elliott, and my MPP. The response was that they want a two dose summer and will not be allowing anyone to get a 3rd dose just to travel.

 

This has been discussed in the Canadian section of this forum. The issue is that even if you snuck in to get a 3rd dose you still need documentation that says that.

[nocl]

51 minutes ago, truckswain said:

To clarify, the WHO did not agree with the FDA, the WORLD Health Organization does not take its advice from one countries regulatory body. The WHO has not supported nor spoken out against mixed vaccines.  One of their scientist was mis-quoted when she was talking about 3rd doses/boosters and was not speakiing about the mixing of viral vector and mRNA vaccines.

 

Mixing and matching vaccines,  known as heterologous prime-boost vaccination, is nothing new and started many years ago with HIV research.  It is a proven method and Covid vaccines are no different.

 

My point all along has been I can sail from Greece (or Canada, Germany etc., etc., ) and be considered fully vaccinated but if I sail the same cruise line from the US I am not considered fully vaccinated.  

 

It is just dumb and it is organizations like the CDC that are part of tne problem and not the solution.

 

 

Actually the WHO Chief scientist stated that decisions concerning mixing should be left to national regulatory authorities.  She also referred to it as a data free zone in that there was insufficient information.

 

WHO does not list mixed vaccines as being accepted for fully vaccinated status.  They have not reviewed and placed such combinations on their EUA list.  Their view matches the FDA matches the FDA in that they also have not listed vaccine combinations has having authorization status.

 

The CDC requires that to be fully vaccinated one must receive a therapy that has received either FDA or WHO authorization.  In that area, as I stated earlier,  both FDA and WHO are in agreement in that neither has authorized combinations for vaccinations

 

For that matter neither has EMEA in Europe.  Some countries in Europe accept them but not all when it comes to full vaccination status.

 

The day WHO actually adds the combinations to their authorized vaccine list is the day that they will be accepted by CDC and the cruise lines. But as with the FDA their process requires that the trials be conducted, the data assembled and submitted for a successful review.

Edited August 14, 2021 by nocl

[nocl]

2 hours ago, truckswain said:

To clarify, the WHO did not agree with the FDA, the WORLD Health Organization does not take its advice from one countries regulatory body. The WHO has not supported nor spoken out against mixed vaccines.  One of their scientist was mis-quoted when she was talking about 3rd doses/boosters and was not speakiing about the mixing of viral vector and mRNA vaccines.

 

Mixing and matching vaccines,  known as heterologous prime-boost vaccination, is nothing new and started many years ago with HIV research.  It is a proven method and Covid vaccines are no different.

 

My point all along has been I can sail from Greece (or Canada, Germany etc., etc., ) and be considered fully vaccinated but if I sail the same cruise line from the US I am not considered fully vaccinated.  

 

It is just dumb and it is organizations like the CDC that are part of tne problem and not the solution.

 

 

I never said that WHO take advice from a national regulatory authority.  They have their own clearly defined process. The FDA and the EMEA also each have their own processes.  The mixed vaccines have not completed that process for any of the three (WHO, FDA or EMEA).

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, truckswain said:

To clarify, the WHO did not agree with the FDA, the WORLD Health Organization does not take its advice from one countries regulatory body. The WHO has not supported nor spoken out against mixed vaccines.  One of their scientist was mis-quoted when she was talking about 3rd doses/boosters and was not speakiing about the mixing of viral vector and mRNA vaccines.

 

Mixing and matching vaccines,  known as heterologous prime-boost vaccination, is nothing new and started many years ago with HIV research.  It is a proven method and Covid vaccines are no different.

 

My point all along has been I can sail from Greece (or Canada, Germany etc., etc., ) and be considered fully vaccinated but if I sail the same cruise line from the US I am not considered fully vaccinated.  

 

It is just dumb and it is organizations like the CDC that are part of tne problem and not the solution.

It is the cruise line that complies with the guidance and regulations from whatever country they are sailing from.  And whatever country they are sailing to.  So you can sail APEX from Greece and have to mask onboard the ship.  But not so if you sail the identical ship EDGE from the USA.  And St Martaan has very specific testing and travel rules.  Every single country does.  Same with vaccines.  Do you consider them all dumb if they don't agree with your point of view?  The entire world has been and continues to be inconsistent in approach to the pandemic.  The country view is based entirely on protecting the majority of their own citizenship.  CDC only affects cruises out of the US.  You are free to go to another country to cruise that might have rules more acceptable to your situation.  

[jg51]

18 hours ago, truckswain said:

Yes case counts  have fluctuated and some provinces are seeing increases.  I would completely agree smaller case counts is due to a number of factors and just not vaccines.  However declining hospitalizations and deaths amid a  rise in case counts is directly related to vaccination. So whatever combination of dosing has led to full vaccination is working period.

 

And the CDC/FDA stating I am not fully vaccinated is insulting and reinforces the ignorance and uselessness of these two organizations.  There is a big world out there that extends beyond the US borders.

.

No, "truckswain," it is not true that, in Canada, "case counts have fluctuated" recently.  As we stated last time, Canadian case counts have only risen for the last three weeks.

 

In your previous message, you stated that "Canada ... is lowering case counts."  In reply, we explained that you were mistaken about that, and we provided a link to a Google graph, showing the three-week rise in Canadian case counts ( https://www.google.com/search?q=graph+covid+cases+canada&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1 ). 

 

From your new reply, we can only conclude that you did not even look at the graph, because you made the same basic error as before.  This time, you stated this: "I would completely agree smaller case counts is due to a number of factors and just not vaccines."  There are no "smaller case counts" in Canada.  There are only higher case counts.

 

Finally, there was no need for you to say the following (which I'm sure, as you must know, is not news to CruiseCritic members nor to the CDC/FDA):  "There is a big world out there that extends beyond the US borders."  Yes, we know that you feel insulted by being called "less than fully vaccinated," but it is not helpful for you to try to get revenge by insulting others in return.

.

Edited August 15, 2021 by jg51

[NantahalaCruiser]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

It is the cruise line that complies with the guidance and regulations from whatever country they are sailing from.  And whatever country they are sailing to.  So you can sail APEX from Greece and have to mask onboard the ship.  But not so if you sail the identical ship EDGE from the USA.  And St Martaan has very specific testing and travel rules.  Every single country does.  Same with vaccines.  Do you consider them all dumb if they don't agree with your point of view?  The entire world has been and continues to be inconsistent in approach to the pandemic.  The country view is based entirely on protecting the majority of their own citizenship.  CDC only affects cruises out of the US.  You are free to go to another country to cruise that might have rules more acceptable to your situation.  

As in NO cruises to Canada in 2021

[D C]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:27 AM, Miaminice said:

@mirkymirk
You are blaming Celebrity for something that isn`t their fault!
Celebrity merely follows CDC guidelines in the US.

 

Sailing from other destinations they follow the local guidelines - see Apex from Greece and Silhouette sailings from the UK. Mixed vaccination is accepted in both cases. I had a mix of AZ and BioNtech and will be sailing on Apex in 3 weeks.

 

Quote:
 

All sailings departing the U.S. are subject to guidance from the CDC. Currently, the CDC does not recognize any mixed combination of COVID-19 vaccines as fully vaccinated. For sailings departing the United States, to be recognized as fully vaccinated, guests 12 years of age and older, must complete a vaccine series with products from the same manufacturer, with the last dose administered at least 14 days prior to sailing. All sailings departing from St. Maarten will also follow this guidance.

 

For sailings departing from the UK, Greece or the Galapagos, we will follow the respective country guidance and allow for a mix of AstraZeneca, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Guests sailing on Celebrity Silhouette departing from Southampton, Celebrity Apex departing from Athens or Celebrity Flora, Xploration and Xpedition in the Galapagos may have mixed doses as follows:

 

• AstraZeneca, with the AstraZeneca dose being administered first, followed within 8–12 weeks by either the Pfizer or Moderna dose.
• One dose of Pfizer or Moderna followed at least four weeks later by a second dose of Pfizer or Moderna.  

Actually, Celebrity is NOT following CDC guidelines with their prohibition of mixed Pfizer-Moderna.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html

 

In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine.

[TeeRick]

30 minutes ago, D C said:

Actually, Celebrity is NOT following CDC guidelines with their prohibition of mixed Pfizer-Moderna.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html

 

In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine.

You are pointing out language for "exceptional" situations in the US.  Not for routine mixed vaccine types.  And in the US so far, with an abundance of mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, the guidance is to follow the protocols and timing developed and approved in the EUA for each of these vaccines.   Soon enough there will be actual clinical data on mixed vaccines in the USA.

[Miaminice]

35 minutes ago, D C said:

Actually, Celebrity is NOT following CDC guidelines with their prohibition of mixed Pfizer-Moderna.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html

 

In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine.

 

The topic and the OP`s problem here is about mixing mRNA with vector vaccine - so the common practice of using AstraZeneca followed by either Pfizer or Moderna.
 

The info above is for two mRNA vaccines of two different manufacturers - which might be OK with the CDC but only in "exeptional" situations. 
 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Miaminice

[D C]

8 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

 

The topic and the OP`s problem here is about mixing mRNA with vector vaccine - so the common practice of using AstraZeneca followed by either Pfizer or Moderna.
 

The info above is for two mRNA vaccines of two different manufacturers - which might be OK with the CDC but only in "exeptional" situations. 
 

Regardless, Celebrity is not following the CDC guidelines.  

 

9 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

You are pointing out language for "exceptional" situations in the US.  Not for routine mixed vaccine types.  And in the US so far, with an abundance of mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, the guidance is to follow the protocols and timing developed and approved in the EUA for each of these vaccines.   Soon enough there will be actual clinical data on mixed vaccines in the USA.

 

"exceptional" becomes a bit of semantics, Rick, as there is no "Was this an exceptional case?" indication on the CDC card.    And regardless of the reason why the mRNA doses were mixed, it's exceptional by definition, no? 🙂   And as an exceptional case, it's A-OK with the CDC.

[TeeRick]

15 minutes ago, D C said:

Regardless, Celebrity is not following the CDC guidelines.  

 

 

"exceptional" becomes a bit of semantics, Rick, as there is no "Was this an exceptional case?" indication on the CDC card.    And regardless of the reason why the mRNA doses were mixed, it's exceptional by definition, no? 🙂   And as an exceptional case, it's A-OK with the CDC.

Yes it is kind of messy.  The mRNA vaccines will eventually be interchangeable and boosters will be either/or.  Clinical studies will support this.  But keep in mind that Pfizer and Moderna actually have different doses of mRNA in their formulations.  And different waiting periods.  And clinical studies of booster doses are looking at a range of mRNA doses too.  Also pediatric mRNA vaccines are being evaluated at lower doses. So a lot of work is being done to optimize the mRNA vaccine approaches.  And then this becomes so much more complicated when you mix and match mRNA and adenovectors like J&J.

 

 So what is a cruise line to do?  Easy for now.  Sailing out of the US will consider fully vaccinated to be 14 days after 1 dose of J&J.  Or 14 days after the second dose in the series of one of the mRNA vaccines.  Cruise lines will need to comply with this for now.  Or a huge Can O' Worms with passengers.  I find it hard to believe that the "exceptional" situations as defined by the CDC will be applied.

Edited August 16, 2021 by TeeRick

[D C]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes it is kind of messy.  The mRNA vaccines will eventually be interchangeable and boosters will be either/or.  Clinical studies will support this.  But keep in mind that Pfizer and Moderna actually have different doses of mRNA in their formulations.  And different waiting periods.  And clinical studies of booster doses are looking at a range of mRNA doses too.  Also pediatric mRNA vaccines are being evaluated at lower doses. So a lot of work is being done to optimize the mRNA vaccine approaches.  And then this becomes so much more complicated when you mix and match mRNA and adenovectors like J&J.  So what is a cruise line to do?  Easy for now.  Sailing out of the US will consider fully vaccinated to be 14 days after 1 dose of J&J.  Or 14 days after the second dose in the series of one of the mRNA vaccines.  Cruise lines will need to comply with this for now.  Or a huge Can O' Worms with passengers.  I find it hard to believe that the "exceptional" situations as defined by the CDC will be applied.

I would argue that the simple "what is a cruise line to do?" answer would be "Does the CDC consider this individual to be fully vaccinated?"  In that case, mixed mRNA (Pfizer-Moderna) would be a yes as why a mixed dose was given is irrelevant.

[cachouonacruise]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:19 PM, K_e_short said:

 

I can confirm this. I am in Ontario. I wrote to Doug Ford, Christine Elliott, and my MPP. The response was that they want a two dose summer and will not be allowing anyone to get a 3rd dose just to travel.

 

This has been discussed in the Canadian section of this forum. The issue is that even if you snuck in to get a 3rd dose you still need documentation that says that.

 

This interesting to see the different provincial approaches to this issue.

 

Just to confirm, we did not stuck in to get our third dose. The third dose process for travelling purposes was approved province wide in Quebec. It was announced in the media, but only available in walk-in clinics.

 

When we went, there was nobody in the clinic. Nurses were chatting waiting for patients to arrive. In Quebec 75% of the population has received two doses, and 85% one dose.

 

Both my daughter and I have received revised QR codes ( Official documentation) showing our three doses.

 

Interesting also to note that in the news, in Ontario, health professionals were concerned about having thousands of doses about to expire, yet, the province refuses to give them to Ontario traveller that could be interested.

 

Of note also, because of the Delta variant, the U.S, is planning to begin a program in September, consisting in giving a third dose to people as it is done in France and Israel and recommended by Pfizer and Moderna.

 

When politics mixes with money and health, interesting situations can develop. Sadly. 

[cangelmd]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:02 AM, TeeRick said:

You are pointing out language for "exceptional" situations in the US.  Not for routine mixed vaccine types.  And in the US so far, with an abundance of mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, the guidance is to follow the protocols and timing developed and approved in the EUA for each of these vaccines.   Soon enough there will be actual clinical data on mixed vaccines in the USA.

Any idea who is doing those trials, TeeRick? One thing that’s been in the back of my mind with the mixed vaccine controversy, is that Pfizer has no incentive to look at a mixed trial or even collect data from people who got mixed doses, so how will that data ever get presented to FDA? N I H sponsored?

[TeeRick]

31 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Any idea who is doing those trials, TeeRick? One thing that’s been in the back of my mind with the mixed vaccine controversy, is that Pfizer has no incentive to look at a mixed trial or even collect data from people who got mixed doses, so how will that data ever get presented to FDA? N I H sponsored?

I think cruising will be eventually covered by clinical studies on mixed vaccines.  Yes right now they are small trials on mixed mRNA vaccines and other combinations.  I believe once Pfizer and Moderna get full approvals these types of clinical studies will be expanded.    Studies are being run by academic medical centers and government funded institutes in the US, EU, UK and Canada.

 

Here is one using research sites in Canada 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04894435

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-evaluating-mixed-covid-19-vaccine-schedules-begins

 

Studies have been ongoing in the EU and UK on combinations with the AZ vaccine plus mRNA vaccines.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3

Edited August 21, 2021 by TeeRick

[nocl]

2 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Any idea who is doing those trials, TeeRick? One thing that’s been in the back of my mind with the mixed vaccine controversy, is that Pfizer has no incentive to look at a mixed trial or even collect data from people who got mixed doses, so how will that data ever get presented to FDA? N I H sponsored?

Actually it makes economic sense for both Moderna and Pfizer to do label expansion trials in combination. After all they would want the ability for their vaccine to be accepted as the second shot in combination with another vaccine.

 

They would also want to be able to give their vaccine as a booster for someone that has received someone else's vaccine.

 

Pfizer is certainly doing a registration label expansion trial for their vaccine as the second dose, as well as as a booster for those that originally received the full course of another vaccine.

 

Health Canada is also doing a registration quality study of the combinations.

 

I would expect submissions to be made to both the FDA, EMEA, and WHO by Pfizer and Moderna. I would expect Health Canada to submit atleast to the WHO.

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Actually it makes economic sense for both Moderna and Pfizer to do label expansion trials in combination. After all they would want the ability for their vaccine to be accepted as the second shot in combination with another vaccine.

 

They would also want to be able to give their vaccine as a booster for someone that has received someone else's vaccine.

 

Pfizer is certainly doing a registration label expansion trial for their vaccine as the second dose, as well as as a booster for those that originally received the full course of another vaccine.

 

Health Canada is also doing a registration quality study of the combinations.

 

I would expect submissions to be made to both the FDA, EMEA, and WHO by Pfizer and Moderna. I would expect Health Canada to submit atleast to the WHO.

Yes I definitely agree with you.

[scottbee]

Some slightly good news on this.  I just received confirmation from Celebrity that they consider AstraZeneca branded AZD1222 as one and the same as Covishield branded AZD1222 and that Covishield+AZ is not considered a mixed dose.  Don't know how many that may apply to here, but it's a small win.

 

(for what it's worth, but the WHO and the FDA consider them interchangeable as well, and I'll be taking printouts from the FDA, from the WHO and a copy of the email they just sent me)

[mirkymirk]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:10 PM, cachouonacruise said:

 

Hi Myrkymirk,

 

Just in case this information can help you.

 

I am a fellow Canadian, from the province of Quebec. Exactly like you, I received Astra-Zeneca as a first dose and Moderna as a second while my wife received two doses of Moderna. My daughter received a first dose of Covishield (Astra-Zeneca) and a second dose of Pfizer.

 

My wife and I are booked on two upcoming cruises: X and NCL, while my daughter is booked on a different NCL cruise.

 

Of note, the vaccine requirements varied for X in Europe versus NCL in Europe, and NCL in USA. In addition, requirements may vary from country to country, rendering a trip with stops in multiple countries quite complex.

 

Taking this in consideration, and also, taking in consideration the Delta variant impact resulting in countries such as France and Israel opting to provide an additional booster shot to specific population groups and also,: for Moderna and Pfizer to recommend a third dose, I decided to inquire if I should and could get another dose of Moderna.

 

To my surprise and relief, in Quebec, our health authority authorizes people initially vaccinated with Astra-Zeneca for the first dose, to receive an additional dose for travelling purposes. 

 

So both my daughter and me were able to go to a local walk-in clinic. I have received another shot of the Moderna, while my daughter has received another shot of Pfizer. So we both meet fully vaccinated criteria for cruise lines and most countries.

 

If this worked in Quebec..... there is no reason it should not work in BC. ( Of note, my daughter, by phone, was also initially refused access to a third dose. Our only option was via a walk-in clinic).

 

Hoping this can help you too! Good luck! 

 

 

Hello

 

Thanks for your reply.  In BC, they are not yet offering third doses (or rather, second doses of mRNA vaccine) to travellers or those who received AZ.  They are offering 3rd dose boosters to the immune-compromised which is great!  I can't get a booster at this time, but as you may have read, the USA is now accepting mixed vaccines including AZ + an mRNA as considered to be fully vaxxed.  So, my wife and I are able to cruise.  

Whether we now want to is the question. We were due to leave for Disneyland two weeks ago and my 9 year old ended up testing positive at our airport, so the trip was cancelled. I then got Covid and have spent the last 7 days in bed and 10 days isolated.  My wife is nervous about going and getting Covid and being barred from entry back to Canada and having to quarantine/ isolate for 14 days in the USA.

We haven't made up our minds... but it almost seems that since Covid is everywhere, maybe all this testing is now becoming somewhat useless on some level.  It's not that I disagree with the testing and prevention measures that ensue if positive, but we caught Covid in our own home town and didn't need to travel internationally to get it.  

[cachouonacruise]

22 hours ago, mirkymirk said:Hello

 

Thanks for your reply.  In BC, they are not yet offering third doses (or rather, second doses of mRNA vaccine) to travellers or those who received AZ.  They are offering 3rd dose boosters to the immune-compromised which is great!  I can't get a booster at this time, but as you may have read, the USA is now accepting mixed vaccines including AZ + an mRNA as considered to be fully vaxxed.  So, my wife and I are able to cruise.  

Whether we now want to is the question. We were due to leave for Disneyland two weeks ago and my 9 year old ended up testing positive at our airport, so the trip was cancelled. I then got Covid and have spent the last 7 days in bed and 10 days isolated.  My wife is nervous about going and getting Covid and being barred from entry back to Canada and having to quarantine/ isolate for 14 days in the USA.

We haven't made up our minds... but it almost seems that since Covid is everywhere, maybe all this testing is now becoming somewhat useless on some level.  It's not that I disagree with the testing and prevention measures that ensue if positive, but we caught Covid in our own home town and didn't need to travel internationally to get it.  

 

I am sorry to hear that you and members of your family had Covid. I sure hope that your vaccinated status helped reduced the severity of the ailment and that you are all returned to a healthy status, without any lingering effects. 

 

And you are correct. We can get Covid at home too. We have to be prudent in every thing we do, and hope that Covid will look the other way. I believe Covid will be there for a while still. So, we will have to learn to live in a Covid context, while taking precautions to minimize our risk of exposure to the virus, at home and away.

 

Thank-you very much for your feed back! Stay well!