Canadian travel vaccine passport certificate to be unveiled “in the coming months, or a year”.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, lots-of-km2 said:

 

No dimunition at all, IMO, and there's no reason why things can't be handled sequentially (as is often the case when dealing with mediated or negotiated issues).  It will take a long time for countries to agree on cross-border migration policies with respect to Covid and vaccinations, but in the meantime, people are already starting to travel for work and personal reasons.  So there's a need for tamper-proof documents asap.   Otherwise this stuff goes mostly unchecked - see below.  Fake cards were even being sold on Amazon and eBay for a long while. 

 

 (The only reason that this forgery was caught was because the buffoon who forged it didn't spell Moderna correctly.)

 

 

One can spot it as a probable fake because the same person completed the form using the same writing instrument, i.e. likely done at the same time.

 

While good fakes may exist, it actually takes more effort and treasure to create one than to get vaccinated. Which suggests that those using them would probably be willing to pay for a hacked electronic passport.

[iancal]

On 9/6/2021 at 7:00 PM, broberts said:

Is there really a need to reinvent the wheel for international travel? Yellow immunization record booklets have been in use for over sixty years.

Except that they are not secure.  We both have them, and have had them for the past 45 years.  

 

All of the entries are handwritten.  Some have a stamp beside them, others do not.

 

Really, today I could very easily make a few entries in our current yellow vaccine passports to the effect that we have had covid and other vaccinations.

 

Clearly no more secure that drug store flimsies that we have seen from the US but I do expect that at some stage more secure docs will be issues.   In Alberta we are getting one that we print off the AHS website.  My guess that my grandson has the computer skills to alter that doc, and print.

 

It is a problem.

[broberts]

10 hours ago, iancal said:

Except that they are not secure.  We both have them, and have had them for the past 45 years.  

 

All of the entries are handwritten.  Some have a stamp beside them, others do not.

 

Really, today I could very easily make a few entries in our current yellow vaccine passports to the effect that we have had covid and other vaccinations.

 

Clearly no more secure that drug store flimsies that we have seen from the US but I do expect that at some stage more secure docs will be issues.   In Alberta we are getting one that we print off the AHS website.  My guess that my grandson has the computer skills to alter that doc, and print.

 

It is a problem.

 

I would argue that a digital system is actually much more likely to be compromised. The yellow books require actual human intervention to create each forgery. A digital system requires a single hack to create hundreds of millions of forgeries. Making it an attractive target for professional hackers.

[Fouremco]

27 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I would argue that a digital system is actually much more likely to be compromised. The yellow books require actual human intervention to create each forgery. A digital system requires a single hack to create hundreds of millions of forgeries. Making it an attractive target for professional hackers.

Which is why Scott Jones was appointed to become the federal lead on the development of proof of vaccine credentials. With an extensive background working in cyber security with the Communications Security Establishment, Jones was Head of the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security immediately prior to his appointment to his new role. You can rest assured that the security aspects of the digital system will be central to its development under the direction of Jones.

[iancal]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I would argue that a digital system is actually much more likely to be compromised. The yellow books require actual human intervention to create each forgery. A digital system requires a single hack to create hundreds of millions of forgeries. Making it an attractive target for professional hackers.

Human intervention???

 

I could get our yellow vaccine passports out  and write in three or four vaccinations in about one minute flat.  Complete with a few initial scribbles beside the date.  Who would be any the wiser?

 

Very fast, very easy....absolutely no skill needed.  Just a pen.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by iancal

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

Which is why Scott Jones was appointed to become the federal lead on the development of proof of vaccine credentials. With an extensive background working in cyber security with the Communications Security Establishment, Jones was Head of the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security immediately prior to his appointment to his new role. You can rest assured that the security aspects of the digital system will be central to its development under the direction of Jones.

 

I don't doubt the system will be as secure as possible. I just know that a system that necessarily depends on input from other systems is inherently only as secure as the weakest. And since those systems have hundreds of thousands input capable users, there are hundreds of thousands potential penetration paths.

 

Just now, iancal said:

Human intervention???

 

I could get ours now and write in three or four vaccinations in about one minute flat.  Complete with a few initial scribbles beside the date.

 

Very fast, very easy....absolutely no skill needed.

 

 

 

Somewhat true. But how many can you do in a day? A single hack can do hundreds of millions. Also, do you have the necessary knowledge to properly complete a record? Border agents are not dumb or oblivious to forgeries of all sorts. While a few may get through, it would be nowhere near the potentially millions that would pass muster with a hacked digital system.

[iancal]

6 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I don't doubt the system will be as secure as possible. I just know that a system that necessarily depends on input from other systems is inherently only as secure as the weakest. And since those systems have hundreds of thousands input capable users, there are hundreds of thousands potential penetration paths.

 

 

Somewhat true. But how many can you do in a day? A single hack can do hundreds of millions. Also, do you have the necessary knowledge to properly complete a record? Border agents are not dumb or oblivious to forgeries of all sorts. While a few may get through, it would be nowhere near the potentially millions that would pass muster with a hacked digital system.

I would only be interested in mine/ours.  Not that we would ever consider doing this.

 

 Yes, we have the knowledge, well DW certainly has the knowledge.  As do many others in the health care spectrum.

 

Any any missing knowledge would be available via a very quick google lookup.

 

Paper is a problem  It is the reason why many countries scan our passport and get on online version of our documents, our photo, and where we have been.  Not just examining  the passport other than to match it with the electronic record.

 

In addition to the digital passport check, we have visited a number of countries where our digital finger prints  have been taken.  And one or countries have also done this when we exited the country.

Edited September 18, 2021 by iancal

[Fouremco]

4 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I don't doubt the system will be as secure as possible. I just know that a system that necessarily depends on input from other systems is inherently only as secure as the weakest. And since those systems have hundreds of thousands input capable users, there are hundreds of thousands potential penetration paths.

 

 

Somewhat true. But how many can you do in a day? A single hack can do hundreds of millions. Also, do you have the necessary knowledge to properly complete a record? Border agents are not dumb or oblivious to forgeries of all sorts. While a few may get through, it would be nowhere near the potentially millions that would pass muster with a hacked digital system.

Few digital systems can be guaranteed impenetrable given enough time. So, yes, its theoretically possible that a system designed under the direction of one of Canada's leading cyber security expert could eventually be penetrated.

 

Conversely, the old yellow paper vaccination booklets offer absolutely no security whatsoever.

 

The GOC's decision to move into the 21st century and go with a system designed by cyber security experts certainly gets my support. I fully respect your preference for the vaccine booklet, but we'll have to agree to disagree on which is more secure. 

[iancal]

We printed off our so called temporary proof of vovid vaccination (ALberta) today.

 

The chinziest thing I have ever seen.  Anyone with the most basic computer skills (even me) could download it or scan it, , change the name  at the top, and print. 

 

Voila....a vax certificate.  I can only assume that the download version is just as easy to alter.

 

Hopefully the Province  will get on with it.  Or simply get something from another Province that has done it or is close to completing the QR version.

Edited September 19, 2021 by iancal

[Evilmuffin]

I have changed my name four times…. And all the military did was put a line through the previous name on the yellow immunization book, and handwrote the new name.   I can just imagine trying to explain that to someone to “verify” I have all the required vaccinations.   😂

 

Looking forward to something a little more official to prove a negative test.   My neighbour had to go to Las Vegas last week for work and went to Shoppers Drug Mart.   He showed me the document they gave him.   Anyone could easily make it up.   

 

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Now that the election is over, I wonder how it will take the feds to get on this international vaccine passport and mixed doses debacle?

[Fouremco]

39 minutes ago, ilovetotravel1977 said:

Now that the election is over, I wonder how it will take the feds to get on this international vaccine passport and mixed doses debacle?

While ministers cease their normal day to day work and head out on the campaign trail once a writ is dropped, federal departments and agencies continue with their duties and responsibilities during the period of the election. There's no reason to believe that work on the vaccine passport and mixed doses issue didn't carry on apace. A change in government might have led to a halt, reassessment and possible scrapping of the work done to date, but yesterday's results will prevent such an eventuality.

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, ilovetotravel1977 said:

Now that the election is over, I wonder how it will take the feds to get on this international vaccine passport and mixed doses debacle?

 

I really dislike characterizing the decision to mix vaccine doses as a debacle. It is insulting of those that made the difficult decision and patently false. 

 

Do you really think we would be better off today had we not taken the mixed dose route? Just look south of the border to see the results of lower vaccination rates.

[ilovetotravel1977]

26 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I really dislike characterizing the decision to mix vaccine doses as a debacle. It is insulting of those that made the difficult decision and patently false. 

 

Do you really think we would be better off today had we not taken the mixed dose route? Just look south of the border to see the results of lower vaccination rates.

Yikes. Sorry. Pretty much everyone here is complaining about this restricting their travel opportunities, which is why I called it a debacle. 

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

While ministers cease their normal day to day work and head out on the campaign trail once a writ is dropped, federal departments and agencies continue with their duties and responsibilities during the period of the election. There's no reason to believe that work on the vaccine passport and mixed doses issue didn't carry on apace. A change in government might have led to a halt, reassessment and possible scrapping of the work done to date, but yesterday's results will prevent such an eventuality.

 

I was being sarcastic.