Recent Experience with no wine sommelier in MDR

[taxmantoo]

30 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

 

I agree in waiting to buy once at the table so the waiters get the sale.  We are fine pouring our own wine, it just needs to get opened and to the table before the appetizers arrive!  (First world problems).

 

We resolved that issue quite a while ago.  We tell our Dining Room Steward/Waiter on the first night that we will not order any food before having been served our first glass of wine.  It is amazing how fast someone shows up to take our wine order 😉

[Florida_gal_50]

5 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

We resolved that issue quite a while ago.  We tell our Dining Room Steward/Waiter on the first night that we will not order any food before having been served our first glass of wine.  It is amazing how fast someone shows up to take our wine order 😉

I'm pretty sure I'll be using this in the future.  Hal doesn't need to make their problem my problem.

[FlaMariner]

47 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

We resolved that issue quite a while ago.  We tell our Dining Room Steward/Waiter on the first night that we will not order any food before having been served our first glass of wine.  It is amazing how fast someone shows up to take our wine order 😉

 

I like that!  Thanks for sharing.....Makes sense.

[kazu]

54 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

We resolved that issue quite a while ago.  We tell our Dining Room Steward/Waiter on the first night that we will not order any food before having been served our first glass of wine.  It is amazing how fast someone shows up to take our wine order 😉

 

We’ve always done that too with a we need our wine first while we contemplate the order 😉 

[mightycruisequeen]

22 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Can’t help - haven’t sailed since covid, but from reading it sounds like there are still sommeliers just no wine stewards?  Hopefully you can get clarification.

A wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  Are you maybe talking about a cellar master?

[kazu]

1 minute ago, mightycruisequeen said:

A wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  Are you maybe talking about a cellar master?

 

I was going by posts I’ve seen where they are being called sommeliers.  It might be they don’t have the qualifications to be called Cellar Masters yet.  No idea, just going by LIVE threads and FB posts by people who have been on the ships.

 

A wine steward is not necessarily as knowledgeable as a sommelier but I’m not going to ge into semantics. 😉 

[mightycruisequeen]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

A wine steward is not necessarily as knowledgeable as a sommelier but I’m not going to ge into semantics. 😉 

As I said before, a wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  It's just two names for the same job/person.

[taxmantoo]

6 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

As I said before, a wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  It's just two names for the same job/person.

Not quite correct.  

 

A wine steward does not have to be a certified sommelier on HAL or any other cruise line that I know of for having read their job descriptions and entrance qualifications.  They are basically wine "waiters" and do not order the wine, maintain the cellar and rarely conduct wine tastings or train other staff.  They report on HAL to the cellar master. 

 

A cellar master on HAL (or their equivalent on other lines) requires the applicant to be a certified sommelier before applying for the job.  They are the ones who order the wine, maintain the cellar, conduct wine tastings and train the wine stewards.  There is only one per ship on HAL and they report directly to the Assitant Beverage Manager.

 

Believe me, I know 😉

Edited September 27, 2021 by taxmantoo

[kazu]

Just now, taxmantoo said:

Not quite correct.  

 

A wine steward does not have to be a certified sommelier on HAL or any other cruise line that I know of for having read their job descriptions and entrance qualifications.  They are basically wine "waiters" and do not order the wine, maintain the cellar and rarely conduct wine tastings or train other staff.

 

A cellar master on HAL (or their equivalent on other lines) requires the applicant to be a certified sommelier before applying for the job.  They are the ones who order the wine, maintain the cellar, conduct wine tastings and train the wine stewards.

 

Believe me, I know 😉

 

Thank you 👍 

 

6 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

As I said before, a wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  It's just two names for the same job/person.

 

I know some true sommeliers and I think they would be insulted by that statement.  See taxman’’s post above.

 

FYI - https://www.thewinestay.com/sommelier-much-more-than-a-wine-steward/

[FlaMariner]

I really do not care what they are called (sommeliers, maitre de (sp?), bar waiters, wine stewards, wine stewardess, waiters, assistant waiter, waitresses, bus boys or the yum yum man) as long as Holland America Line can sell me a wine package, keep up with the bottles, get me my wine before appetizers arrive and rinse and repeat every evening in the MDR.

 

So looking forward to that first glass on board a 'dam ship and always enjoyed the wine at dinner and hoping for it to continue......

 

 

 

 

[mightycruisequeen]

Google "sommelier". 

But whatever...

 

[crazytomatoes]

21 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

There are three Wine Stewards whom are standouts in my memory.

 

Roy who served me on the 2008 Grand World Voyage.

Sume who served me on the 2002 Asia Pacific Voyage.

Nestor who served me on more than one HAL cruise, both in the dining room and as a bartender in later years.

 

Friendly, knowledgeable about their wines, provided excellent wine service each night:  they helped to make my nightly dining a very pleasant experience.  

 

We had the privilege of having Nestor on a 14 day Alaskan Cruise a few years ago and he absolutly made our night everytime we entered the MDR. He was fantastic, my family still talks about him!

[T8NCruise]

2 hours ago, mightycruisequeen said:

As I said before, a wine steward and a sommelier are the same thing.  It's just two names for the same job/person.

You are totally wrong.

[aliaschief]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

I really do not care what they are called (sommeliers, maitre de (sp?), bar waiters, wine stewards, wine stewardess, waiters, assistant waiter, waitresses, bus boys or the yum yum man) as long as Holland America Line can sell me a wine package, keep up with the bottles, get me my wine before appetizers arrive and rinse and repeat every evening in the MDR.

 

So looking forward to that first glass on board a 'dam ship and always enjoyed the wine at dinner and hoping for it to continue......

 

 

 

 

You are rocking! Luv it!

[aliaschief]

It’s a new scene out at sea. We’ll let you know.

[FlaMariner]

13 minutes ago, aliaschief said:

It’s a new scene out at sea. We’ll let you know.

 

Enjoy the cruise!  I'll look forward to your update on the wine service...LOL....Not about to name the job title of who will be serving you wine but do let us know how it is....

 

Actually, we depart 10/20 on our cruise........so I hope to be able to experience wine service soon also....by whoever the job title of the person is that will serve me wine!

 

Smooth sailing out there......

 

[aliaschief]

1 minute ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Enjoy the cruise!  I'll look forward to your update on the wine service...LOL....Not about to name the job title of who will be serving you wine but do let us know how it is....

 

Actually, we depart 10/20 on our cruise........so I hope to be able to experience wine service soon also....by whoever the job title of the person is that will serve me wine!

 

Smooth sailing out there......

 

Now that we we’re just bumped up to Pinnacle Suite I’m not sure if we will have a fair comparison.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, taxmantoo said:

A cellar master on HAL (or their equivalent on other lines) requires the applicant to be a certified sommelier before applying for the job

 

Their seems to be a hierarchy in this job.  The designation of Cellar Master seems to indicate a more knowledgeable person than a Sommelier.  Then, there is the Wine Steward (with the tasting cup chain around his neck).  He is more knowledgeable than a MDR Steward who now seems to be the one to fetch and serve whatever wine one orders.  

 

There are good Cellar Masters as there are Sommeliers.  But, there are those, whom I have found, who are snooty.  And, don't encourage me to order the more expensive bottles of wines that they are "pushing".  

 

4 hours ago, taxmantoo said:

We tell our Dining Room Steward/Waiter on the first night that we will not order any food before having been served our first glass of wine.  It is amazing how fast someone shows up to take our wine order 😉

 

I have not been so successful with that strategy.  And, why should such a strategy even be required when dining in the MDR of a ship that considers itself a premium cruise line?  

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, aliaschief said:

Over attention  by a wine steward can equal no wine through main entree. 

 

Chief, I don't understand your comment.  

 

5 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

I agree in waiting to buy once at the table so the waiters get the sale

 

That is what I regularly do.  Another advantage is those crew members selling the packages are aware of any wines in the packages that are not available and what they are the substitutes.  

 

 

[goldsmip115]

I’m just plain sad.  While we’ve moved away from HAL Suites to Celebrity after over 20 cruises we still talk about the amazing wine steward Neal on one HAL cruise.  This was long ago when the main dining room menu and experience was still very good to great. It was also when you could bring your own fine wines aboard and pay a corkage fee.  Each evening Neal would be excited to be the first to sample the wine.  Often we did not finish the bottle and always sent it “home” with him.  On later cruises we just decided to purchase wines from HAL.  We enjoyed discussing the options with someone who knew the wines, could make recommendations and enjoy the experience with us. Just one more sad example of how the Carnival influence has so diminished the HAL experience. But, hey, you still get free laundry in the HAL suites.  
 

However, with the sale of the beverage packages the poor waiters now just have to determine the level and whether to offer the mediocre or the maybe good and then make sure that it has not exceeded the 15 drinks per day max.  Sigh.  I guess this is the new reality of HAL.

[AncientWanderer]

10 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 Another advantage is those crew members selling the packages are aware of any wines in the packages that are not available and what they are the substitutes.  

 

 

 

This is our M.O. as well.  I seem to be hearing here that these wine professionals are not assigned to the MDR anymore.  During our recent specialty restaurant meals, the stewards/sommeliers were excellent.  There were wines that were not available, and they suggested wonderful replacements that we enjoyed very much.  And our glasses were kept full.  Too full for the likes of me.  Wonderful wine service in PG and Tamarind and Canaletto on the Nieuw Amsterdam.

Edited September 27, 2021 by AncientWanderer

[POA1]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:00 PM, kazu said:

JMO, but I would never pre-purchase a wine package.  there is a possibility that some of the wines you like will not be on board or available.

 

I learned the hard way to wait until you are on board to check the inventory and then order 😉 

 

I second that! Also, if you aren't 100% thrilled with the wines in the package, you may be offered alternative selections. They'll be in the same price range, but it may give you some additional choices.

 

One other suggestion: If there's a wine in the package that you absolutely love, have multiple bottles pulled for you. Sometimes wines run out mid cruise.

[rkacruiser]

5 minutes ago, goldsmip115 said:

We enjoyed discussing the options with someone who knew the wines, could make recommendations and enjoy the experience with us. Just one more sad example of how the Carnival influence has so diminished the HAL experience

 

No doubt that discussing the wines to order with whomever is responsible for such a task and knows his/her wines is part of a good wine experience.  In a previous post, I mentioned three crew members who stand out in my memory in this regard.  But, to blame, once again and as others have done for years, on the "Carnival influence" on HAL is just not right.  There is not a single cruise line that is part of a larger Corporation that has not undergone the "influences" of the parent Corporation!  If one becomes aware of the opinions of the frequent guests of those lines, one will hear of disappointments with their cruise experience.  

 

If it were not for Mr. Micky Arison and Carnival Corporation's wanting a cruise line that would fulfill Mr. Arison's idea of a "Tiffany Project", Holland America Line would most likely not exist today.  

 

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

13 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 Wonderful wine service in PG and Tamarind and Canaletto on the Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

The wine service in the PG and in Sel de Mer (as well in the pop-ups) have recently been superior than what I have experienced in the MDR.  

[goldsmip115]

rkacruiser.  To some extent I agree with your response. All of the consolidations have generally had a negative impact on cruise lines.  Would HAL survived without Carnival?  I don’t have that answer.  What I do know is that I’ve moved on from HAL suite experience but I have to say that under RCL Celebrity has certainly elevated the suite experience in many ways.  I will be back to HAL in 2023 due to a charter and hope that the Pinnacle Grill and Tamarind dining experience are positive, that the Pinnacle Grill breakfast is as wonderful experience as I remember it and if not the charter experience and entertainment will make up for it.  I will always have fond memories of great wine service in the MDR and the Pinnacle Grill.  And, hey, at least right now there is still free laundry in the full suites.