Haven Tipping! Yes! A tipping thread! We’re back!

[cruiseny4life]

9 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

I know that my post is old but it was written tongue in cheek. Several threads had been popping up about tipping and I was constantly asking people to ignore what others tip (or claim to tip) and just tip whatever amount that they want to tip. Posting tips of $100 per person per day, $500 per person per day, etc. should be ignored just like every other amount posted should be ignored. I had posted that $100 amount several times to make the point that tipping based on the amount that random forum members claim was silly. 

 

Nobody should tip based on "...well, most of the CC members tip this much so I should tip the same...". People who tip less shouldn't feel ashamed. People who tip more shouldn't feel ashamed, either. It seems that most people who start a thread and ask "...how much...?" probably already have an idea on an amount and are simply looking for affirmation that their amount is inline with what others tip. (That's just my theory.) 😉

 

Now, about my chair-hog theory and how it relates to René Girard (mimetic desire.......). 😎

Based on my pre-NCL cruise experience in February/March, I find your theory to be relatively unhelpful. As travelers, we had always taken a flight, rented a car and camped/hoteled it up in different parts of the US and world. A cruise, and especially a cruise in the Haven, was completely foreign to us. As I researched, I read plenty of comments that say just tip whatever you feel the service was like.

 

Well, how am I supposed to know what is commensurate to what other cruisers are tipping if everyone just says tip as you feel the service was worth to you. Should I tip 20% as I do at restaurants? As someone pointed out earlier, that would be $1,000 to a butler and to a concierge. That seems a bit excessive for a one week cruise. Should I give them a buck or two like people report giving to porters at the ports? Well, that seems like it's not nearly enough. 

 

Thankfully, I found some posts here (and on Facebook) that outlined a range of what folks tipped. Now I knew an amount that others tipped. As I said before, I saw some claiming the same you mentioned: $100/day. Well, that wasn't going to happen, nor was $5 a day. It was easy to find the median. Many on this thread have discussed their tips and there does seem to be a happy median. 

 

This is why I am so insistent on providing the exact dollar amount of a tip I provide to crew. It is helpful to others to have a baseline. Perhaps they'll call me stingy. Maybe they'll call me exorbitant. Guess what? I don't care. The real idea is, we all need data points to understand what to tip when new to cruising, especially when the Daily Service Charge doesn't apply to certain positions. Then, the reader can use this data to have a somewhat better expectation of what they can tip. Do people lie? Do they exaggerate? Sure, but many folks above are telling the truth. You'll just have to take me at my word that my experience is true to what it was.

 

Personally, I'm thankful many folks share their experience and I'll always share mine. 

[Two Wheels Only]

6 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Well, how am I supposed to know what is commensurate to what other cruisers are tipping if everyone just says tip as you feel the service was worth to you.

 

What others tip should be irrelevant to you. The only person qualified to decide what is appropriate for you to tip is you. 

 

9 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Should I tip 20% as I do at restaurants?

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

10 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Should I give them a buck or two like people report giving to porters at the ports?

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

11 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

The real idea is, we all need data points to understand what to tip when new to cruising, especially when the Daily Service Charge doesn't apply to certain positions.

 

Sorry, that isn't true. People have the free will to decide for themselves what the correct amount is. Others may agree or disagree with the amount but their opinion is irrelevant. 

 

13 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Then, the reader can use this data to have a somewhat better expectation of what they can tip.

 

 No, everyone can tip whatever amount that they tip. There is no wrong amount no matter what others tip or claim to tip. 

 

If someone started a thread asking "How much should I spend on a watch?", there will be plenty of amounts given with people stating how much they spent on their watch. Should the OP gather up all of those amounts and based on the average or median spend that amount on their watch? No. The OP can decide for himself how much to spend just as every person can decide how much to tip. 

[cruiseny4life]

1 minute ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

What others tip should be irrelevant to you. The only person qualified to decide what is appropriate for you to tip is you. 

 

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

 

Sorry, that isn't true. People have the free will to decide for themselves what the correct amount is. Others may agree or disagree with the amount but their opinion is irrelevant. 

 

 

 No, everyone can tip whatever amount that they tip. There is no wrong amount no matter what others tip or claim to tip. 

 

If someone started a thread asking "How much should I spend on a watch?", there will be plenty of amounts given with people stating how much they spent on their watch. Should the OP gather up all of those amounts and based on the average or median spend that amount on their watch? No. The OP can decide for himself how much to spend just as every person can decide how much to tip. 

While I appreciate your responses, I see that you will continue to believe in your opinion that everyone should just do whatever they think is right without having any data to support the action.

 

I'll just be on my way out of this part of the conversation. Have a whimsical Wednesday! 

[spanishguy1970]

2 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

What others tip should be irrelevant to you. The only person qualified to decide what is appropriate for you to tip is you. 

 

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

 

That's up to you. Whether you do or you don't, there is no wrong amount to tip. 

 

 

Sorry, that isn't true. People have the free will to decide for themselves what the correct amount is. Others may agree or disagree with the amount but their opinion is irrelevant. 

 

 

 No, everyone can tip whatever amount that they tip. There is no wrong amount no matter what others tip or claim to tip. 

 

If someone started a thread asking "How much should I spend on a watch?", there will be plenty of amounts given with people stating how much they spent on their watch. Should the OP gather up all of those amounts and based on the average or median spend that amount on their watch? No. The OP can decide for himself how much to spend just as every person can decide how much to tip. 

I will probably go overboard with this comment but here it goes. Let's just say, a couple takes 2-3 years to save enough money ( not us LOL) to go on a cruise, they finally book that cruise. This couple combined salary does not allow them to top 18% 25% etc. They may be able to save extra money to be willing to tip, what they tip, or not tip is not anyone else's business, what people consider stingy or splurging, again is no one else's business, Tip what your pocket allows, who cares what amount others tip. I for one, don't care, but that's just me. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by spanishguy1970

[cruiseny4life]

19 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

 Tip what your pocket allows, who cares what amount others tip. I for one, don't care, but that's just me. 

I agree with you completely! I just appreciate knowing what others tip as a starting off point. It's helpful information to know. 

[Greenpea2]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:20 PM, laurap414 said:

I’m a travel agent and I got the best tip from my Norwegian rep last week. Due to COVID the crew can’t leave the ship at all. He recently sailed on the Encore and he said that before they sailed he went to an Asian grocery store and got a bunch of Filipino coffee, chocolates and snacks. He gave them to the staff as gifts, and in his words “you would have thought we gave them a gold bar”. I thought that was so sweet and considerate. I plan on doing this in addition to tipping when we sail on the Dawn in Feb. 😊

I always bring a bag of mixed mini-chocolate bars and Hershey's kisses. They LOVE them. I leave a few out each day for the room steward (and the butler if I', in the Haven), give some to friendly bartenders, then leave the rest for the steward. They all brighten up getting them!

 

P.S. And of course I tip them with $ as well! For me, based on how helpful/friendly, etc they were.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Greenpea2

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

While I appreciate your responses, I see that you will continue to believe in your opinion that everyone should just do whatever they think is right without having any data to support the action.

 

I'll just be on my way out of this part of the conversation. Have a whimsical Wednesday! 

You seem to be more concerned about data points rather than the metrics of quality.   Just give  what you think a good professor at Cornell should get.  

 

[Greenpea2]

On 10/4/2021 at 12:24 PM, newty25 said:

We mainly follow this... but I give the butler less than the concierge. I use the concierge several times per day. I probably use the butler one or twice per trip.

 

I also give something to the maitre'd at the restaurant... but I'm a picky eater.

 

We like to tip at time of service for everything.

Yeah, it feels creepy to me to tip someone up front. Just not comfortable with it. But everyone should do as they feel is right, 

[cruiseny4life]

14 hours ago, Daniel A said:

You seem to be more concerned about data points rather than the metrics of quality.   Just give  what you think a good professor at Cornell should get.  

 

So....nothing? I sure didn't tip my professors...but none of my universities were Ivy, so perhaps that's why. 

[PATRLR]

21 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

Well, how am I supposed to know what is commensurate to what other cruisers are tipping if everyone just says tip as you feel the service was worth to you.

 

20 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

What others tip should be irrelevant to you. The only person qualified to decide what is appropriate for you to tip is you. 

You write this as if there is something wrong with gathering information to help you make the right decision.  There is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge. 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 minute ago, PATRLR said:

 

You write this as if there is something wrong with gathering information to help you make the right decision.

 

There is no wrong decision. A right decision for someone else doesn't make it the "right" decision for you. Only your decision is the right decision for you.

[PATRLR]

21 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

There is no wrong decision. 

I didn't say there was.  But now that you've said it to me, I will say there most certainly could be a wrong decision.

 

21 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

A right decision for someone else doesn't make it the "right" decision for you. 

Again, I didn't say or imply anything about someone else's decision except to point out that others' decisions can contribute to your knowledge.  I believe that knowledge contributes to making informed decisions and I believe that most people like to make informed decisions (I know I do).

 

21 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

Only your decision is the right decision for you.

If my decision is based on my ignorance, it most definitely might be the wrong decision for me.  Just because I made the decision, doesn't make it right.

Are you really trying to tell us that it's wrong to gather knowledge before making a decision? 
Are you really going to insist that making an uninformed decision is the right thing to do?   

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by PATRLR

[Two Wheels Only]

2 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Are you really trying to tell us that it's wrong to gather knowledge before making a decision? 
Are you really going to insist that making an uninformed decision is the right thing to do? 

 

Opinions based on facts are not the same as opinions based on opinions. 

 

How much or little that someone should tip is an opinion that isn't based on facts. Asking how much someone should tip a butler will only produce opinions and won't produce any facts. 

 

Going back to the "How much should I spend on a watch?" question. Will any answers give me the correct answer as to how much I should spend on a watch? No, the answers will tell me what others think is correct i.e. their opinion. 

 

If there are 5 women who work in an office and 20 men. If 15 of those men believe that Dana is the prettiest does that mean that the 16th man should believe the same? No, the 16th man can form his own opinion. The 16th man shouldn't think "...well, most of the other guys believe it's Dana so I guess Dana is the prettiest..." 

 

There are no facts to be gained by taking the opinions of the other men in the office. The 16th man isn't gathering any knowledge by seeing who they picked as the prettiest. 

 

If a forum member asks "Which ship is better between Epic and Gem?", that question will give opinions. If that forum member sails on both ships, that forum member doesn't need to ask which is better. He/she will have the ability to decide which ship is better and the opinions of other forum members won't (shouldn't) matter. If a forum member sails in the Haven, he/she will know how much to tip the butler based on his/her experience. What others tipped their butler won't (shouldn't) matter. 

 

 

When it comes to the correct tipping amount, there is no spoon. 

 

 

[Daniel A]

44 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

I didn't say there was.  But now that you've said it to me, I will say there most certainly could be a wrong decision.

 

Again, I didn't say or imply anything about someone else's decision except to point out that others' decisions can contribute to your knowledge.  I believe that knowledge contributes to making informed decisions and I believe that most people like to make informed decisions (I know I do).

 

If my decision is based on my ignorance, it most definitely might be the wrong decision for me.  Just because I made the decision, doesn't make it right.

Are you really trying to tell us that it's wrong to gather knowledge before making a decision? 
Are you really going to insist that making an uninformed decision is the right thing to do?   

Aren't you confusing other's opinions with factual knowledge?  Another's opinion is not what constitutes an 'informed decision.'  It may be helpful to understand what helps another person to formulate an opinion and decision but all I'm seeing on this thread is opinions, not any underlying factual basis for determining how much to tip.

 

If you're more comfortable letting others make your decisions for you, then that's what's right for you.  Other people prefer to rely on their own experiences and judgements and that's what's right for them.  We're all different.

 

EDIT: I wrote this response while @Two Wheels Only was writing their response, sorry if it seems to duplicate that post.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Daniel A

[Two Wheels Only]

37 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

EDIT: I wrote this response while @Two Wheels Only was writing their response, sorry if it seems to duplicate that post.

 

There's no need to apologize. Your opinion on the subject is welcome. Even if your opinion was the opposite of mine, it would be welcome. 

[spanishguy1970]

40 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Aren't you confusing other's opinions with factual knowledge?  Another's opinion is not what constitutes an 'informed decision.'  It may be helpful to understand what helps another person to formulate an opinion and decision but all I'm seeing on this thread is opinions, not any underlying factual basis for determining how much to tip.

 

If you're more comfortable letting others make your decisions for you, then that's what's right for you.  Other people prefer to rely on their own experiences and judgements and that's what's right for them.  We're all different.

 

EDIT: I wrote this response while @Two Wheels Only was writing their response, sorry if it seems to duplicate that post.

I will go with my first opinion, some people do stress out about tipping LOL, make it more complicated than it should be. Sigh

[PATRLR]

2 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Opinions based on facts are not the same as opinions based on opinions. 

SMH.  I was not talking or responding to comments about opinions.  Your quote that I was responding to was not discussing opinions, it was discussing facts.  Let me refresh your memory with where my comments started:  

 

Cruiseny4life wrote this, expressing an interest in what people tip.  A reasonable inference here is that he wants to know facts, not opinions.  He wants to know what other people do. 

On 10/26/2022 at 1:20 PM, cruiseny4life said:

Well, how am I supposed to know what is commensurate to what other cruisers are tipping if everyone just says tip as you feel the service was worth to you.

Notice he didn't say he wanted to know what other people think he should tip, or what other people think is a good range to tip, he wanted to know "what other cruisers are tipping".  Those would be facts.

To which you, Two Wheels Only, responded:

On 10/26/2022 at 1:52 PM, Two Wheels Only said:

What others tip should be irrelevant to you. The only person qualified to decide what is appropriate for you to tip is you. 

See - even you apparently inferred he was talking about facts - what people tip, as evidence in your response "What others tip" - again, facts.

So no, I am not confusing facts with opinions.  I never wrote nor implied anything about what others think, I was only responding to your statements implying that people shouldn't even want to know the facts of what others tip.

 

 

 

 

[PATRLR]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Aren't you confusing other's opinions with factual knowledge?  Another's opinion is not what constitutes an 'informed decision.'  It may be helpful to understand what helps another person to formulate an opinion and decision but all I'm seeing on this thread is opinions, not any underlying factual basis for determining how much to tip.

I never said anything that would imply I was talking about opinions.  See my response to Two Wheels Only above.  

 

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If you're more comfortable letting others make your decisions for you, then that's what's right for you.  Other people prefer to rely on their own experiences and judgements and that's what's right for them.  We're all different.

 

Really?  Did you really feel a need to go the condescension route?  I usually make sure I comprehend the conversation without adding my own unsupported inferences before I turn on condescension mode. But hey, we're all different as you said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

11 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Cruiseny4life wrote this, expressing an interest in what people tip.  A reasonable inference here is that he wants to know facts, not opinions.  He wants to know what other people do. 

 

Wants to know what others do because they want to know what they "should" tip...

 

On 10/26/2022 at 1:20 PM, cruiseny4life said:

Should I tip 20% as I do at restaurants? As someone pointed out earlier, that would be $1,000 to a butler and to a concierge. That seems a bit excessive for a one week cruise. Should I give them a buck or two like people report giving to porters at the ports? Well, that seems like it's not nearly enough. 

 

...nothing posted by ANYONE could tell what someone "should" tip. 

 

15 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Notice he didn't say he wanted to know what other people think he should tip, or what other people think is a good range to tip, he wanted to know "what other cruisers are tipping".

 

See above. The "should" is actually asked. 

 

If someone is curious as to what other people tip, that is VERY different than deciding what to tip based on what other people tip. 

 

If someone stated a thread with "...it's my first time in the Haven and I don't know what to tip. How much do you guys tip?...", do you think that the OP is being curious or that the OP is looking for an "appropriate" amount?

[PATRLR]

14 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Wants to know what others do because they want to know what they "should" tip...

 

 

...nothing posted by ANYONE could tell what someone "should" tip. 

 

 

See above. The "should" is actually asked. 

 

If someone is curious as to what other people tip, that is VERY different than deciding what to tip based on what other people tip. 

 

If someone stated a thread with "...it's my first time in the Haven and I don't know what to tip. How much do you guys tip?...", do you think that the OP is being curious or that the OP is looking for an "appropriate" amount?

If you can't stick to what I quoted, what I was specifically commenting on, then I am done.

 

I stand by my statement, there is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge.   If you disagree, then hopefully we can respectfully agree to disagree.

[cruiseny4life]

16 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Wants to know what others do because they want to know what they "should" tip...

 

 

...nothing posted by ANYONE could tell what someone "should" tip. 

 

 

See above. The "should" is actually asked. 

 

If someone is curious as to what other people tip, that is VERY different than deciding what to tip based on what other people tip. 

 

If someone stated a thread with "...it's my first time in the Haven and I don't know what to tip. How much do you guys tip?...", do you think that the OP is being curious or that the OP is looking for an "appropriate" amount?

And you drew me back in by taking my thoughts out of context, seeing rhetorical questions believing they are actual questions (did you notice how I answered them myself?), and where did I ever ask what I should tip? I'd love it if you'd run that one down for me. 

[Daniel A]

45 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

I never said anything that would imply I was talking about opinions.  See my response to Two Wheels Only above.  

 

Really?  Did you really feel a need to go the condescension route?  I usually make sure I comprehend the conversation without adding my own unsupported inferences before I turn on condescension mode. But hey, we're all different as you said.

First off, I wasn't being condescending, but it is interesting that you took it that way.  Anybody who needs to know what others are doing in order to do the same thing is letting others make their decisions for them.  Just because most of my neighbors will vote for a particular candidate, that in no way is a 'fact' I would use in order to determine who would get my vote.  No matter who I decide to vote for cannot be the 'wrong' decision for me.  There are several misleading 'facts' which have been posted in this thread which clearly state what tipping minimums are, so you're not really getting any reliable information that way.

 

One reason why much of the information being presented in this thread is inadequate is nobody who actually gave dollar amounts quantified how much use was made of a service being provided during a cruise.  Taking some of the posts quite literally would mean they would tip these same dollar amounts regardless of the length of the cruise.  So, a Haven Butler on a 3-day cruise would get the same amount as on a 30-day cruise according to these posts if you're considering the information as being 'facts.'  Obviously, these aren't facts, they are only opinions and preferences.  If you were to go back to the OP's first post, take note that the OP never said how long they would be staying in the Haven.  How could anybody suggest a dollar amount?

 

Going back to the condescension concern, allow me to rephrase what I was saying:  Whatever method you use to decide how much is an appropriate tip, that would be the right decision for you...

[PATRLR]

11 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

in order to do the same thing

Did I say anything about "do the same thing"?  I did not.  My point was simply about gathering facts.

 

12 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

No matter who I decide to vote for cannot be the 'wrong' decision for me.

I'm happy for you.  Personally, for me, if I make an uninformed decision I think there is a reasonable chance that I made the wrong the decision for me.  But maybe that's just me.

I agree with much of the other things you say about this thread, but, those are all things outside of my very specific comments. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

23 hours ago, Greenpea2 said:

I always bring a bag of mixed mini-chocolate bars and Hershey's kisses. They LOVE them. I leave a few out each day for the room steward (and the butler if I', in the Haven), give some to friendly bartenders, then leave the rest for the steward. They all brighten up getting them!

This seems a bit disturbing.  Kind of like what I saw in the aquarium in Boston two weeks ago.

[Grimix]

I guess I may have done it wrong, but the service and attitudes were so great, and I felt the money would do more for them than me...

 

Starting with my biggest regret; forgot to tip the Maitre'D at the Haven restaurant.

$200 for butler

$100 for steward

$80 for concierge (I intended $100, but unfortunately I had run out of tipping money, and needed a $20 to have a porter get our cases off...)

$20 after each sit down meal (we skipped lunch most days....)

I would drop a $20 at the haven bar when we started drinking saying I was pre-paying drinks for the day, as I too did not want to be pulling out $1s every time I got a drink. I gave the pool server $10 for the same reason. (Mostly because she hadn't seen me tip at the bar. But it wasn't until later when I mentioned it that she said the pool servers don't share tips with the bar staff. She seemed honest when she told me that so I'm going with it.)

Some nights they made more than $1-2 a drink, other nights less. (Sometimes they made twice because my wife hadn't known I'd already pre-tipped...)

The 4 haven servers (2 bartenders, and 2 pool stewards) where so great, and diligent, remembering drink preferences even of my kids, that I gave each $60 on the last night.

They were working extremely long days, for 7-days a week...

 

And the fact that I just survived a surprise RIF on the second day after my return means I live another day to do on another cruise!