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250 Cruisers protest -on Horizon - 1000 cruisers sign petition- broken engine, lost 2 ports, only $100 paltry refund

rww789

By rww789,
in Carnival Cruise Lines

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SNJCruisers

SNJCruisers

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

If I were aboard, I'd be much more upset about being surrounded by cranky passengers and negative vibe, than by missing ports and compensation.

If I were on board, I would be happy since when the angry mob was having their meeting, it would be more open seats at Alchemy for me to occupy.

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cruisingguy007

cruisingguy007

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival has a herd of attorneys on staff and the contract has existed as a living document for decades. They know what they are doing.

 

For any lawsuit to succeed, you first have to get the contact tossed,. Good luck. Some ex-cruise line lawyer will gladly take your money and you will be extremely lucky to get pennies returned on your dollars as a settlement. The contract, meanwhile, will remain intact. If anything, you will get Carnival to tighten the contract a little more.

 

Yeah. Sure. Sure. Most contracts are equivalent to dither-fish. They exist to create drama/confusion. Carnival has zero money to waste. Especially, since they have to pay back heavy investors, of which there are plenty (several big ticket purchases including an executives relative). They are essentially bankrupt. Point plant, period. Having a outsized ego won't help at all. Carnival, as well as ALL cruise lines, are in trouble at the moment and those angel funds with ridiculous returns are fleeting as the market fades. Pretending that they hold any cards is simply wishful thinking. No one is beating down their doors to hand them money.  

Edited by cruisingguy007
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cruisingguy007

cruisingguy007

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

If I were on board, I would be happy since when the angry mob was having their meeting, it would be more open seats at Alchemy for me to occupy.

 

Friends of Bill meeting? 😂

Edited by cruisingguy007
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rww789

rww789

Posted
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Posted (edited)

I was was told by an expert that what they did was illegal by sending out the ship with major engine problems  that they knew about before it sail.   He is planning to turn them into the Transportation Dept for this. They blew everyone off in customer service. So you’re saying it’s ok to send out a broken ship with very little compensation? 

Edited by rww789
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Drazil65

Drazil65

Posted
Posted

Yeah. Sure. Sure. Most contracts are equivalent to dither-fish. They exist to create drama/confusion. Carnival has zero money to waste. Especially, since they have to pay back heavy investors, of which there are plenty (several big ticket purchases including an executives relative). They are essentially bankrupt. Point plant, period. Having a outsized ego won't help at all. Carnival, as well as ALL cruise lines, are in trouble at the moment and those angel funds with ridiculous returns are fleeting as the market fades. Pretending that they hold any cards is simply wishful thinking. No one is beating down their doors to hand them money.  

 

LOL...are you upset with the cruise lines? Attorneys? Stock Market?  What you refer to in your ranting is basically any company USA, the ones that came out the other side of covid anyway.  We appreciate your opinion though.  

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rww789 said:

I was was told by an expert that what they did was illegal by sending out the ship with major engine problems  that they knew about before it sail.   He is planning to turn them into the Transportation Dept for this. They blew everyone off in customer service. So you’re saying it’s ok to send out a broken ship with very little compensation? 

 

15 minutes ago, rww789 said:

I guess possibly breaking a law is no biggie...

 

13 minutes ago, rww789 said:

The expert is turning them into the transportation department. They  deal with it then.

 

 

Please elaborate this expert's credentials with regards to international maritime issues.  Also, please elaborate the "major engine problems" that the cruise line "knew about".  Please elaborate how this expert knows that the "major engine problems" were not reported to the USCG, and given clearance to sail.  Please elaborate what law they possibly broke.  And, please elaborate why this "expert" is reporting them to the "transportation department", when the USCG (the agency that deals with foreign shipping) is not under transportation anymore, and hasn't been since 2003.

 

And, no matter how many times you post the reply, please elaborate on the law that Carnival broke.

 

I am a subject matter expert on this topic, and without all the facts, including the confirmation of whether any possible equipment malfunctions had or had not been reported to the USCG, I don't have all the facts to determine whether it should be reported to the USCG.

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wgeddings Great Review Rare

wgeddings

Posted
Posted

All the non-lawyers getting upset about contracts and choice of law are amusing.  I am an attorney and the issue is more about damages.  A contract like the travel contract is called a contract of adhesion, meaning it was drafted by one party and is a "take it or leave it" type thing rather than a contract where the parties have equal authority to negotiate.  Could you imagine Carnival actually negotiating your travel contract with you?  Never.  In such a contract, the law always gives the non-drafting party every benefit of the doubt and resolves any ambiguity in favor of the non-drafter.  Even though the contract specifies choice of law and such things, which could all be argued, the point is how much it would cost to hire a lawyer to do it.  Unless you booked the grand suite, you are going to pay several times what your cruise cost just to start with an attorney.  In the US, you do not get attorney's fees as part of your damages absent a provision allowing it in the contract (and you can bet that isn't in there) or a specific statute allows it.  Even then, it is no guarantee so no attorney is going to do the case without a substantial retainer.  

 

Even if you did hire an attorney and spend all that money, what damages would you have.  You did not get to go to Amber Cove?  If you had an expensive medical procedure planned in Amber Cove during the time of the stop there, maybe you could stretch that into damages but even then it would be doubtful because a court would say you took a travel method that expressly warned you that the stop may not occur.  Not getting to go to the Rum Factory is not much damage.

 

We were on a cruise before COVID where there was a hurricane coming.  As a result, as the hurricane worked its way up the Bahamas and the Florida coast, each port of call was cancelled even after they tried to find alternatives.  The captain and cruise director were apologetic and some passengers were indignant but I was happy as I could be.  Instead of port calls at somewhere in the midst of a hurricane, we stayed in the calm ocean with another sea day!  We got our port fees refunded and a FCC and a partial refund.  I was very happy because through it all, I still got a great cruise on a wonderful ship with my family and we had a great time rather than sitting at home waiting to be struck by a hurricane.  Our home port (Charleston) was under an evacuation order when we returned to port (and I was secretly hoping we would not be allowed to return so we would get a longer cruise) but it was no problem. 

 

Bottom line is that things happen.  No cruise line can control weather.  Parts on ships break.  If Carnival had just cancelled the cruise rather than try to make repairs underway, everyone would have squawked and had a fit like those in the following cruises  We were on the Horizon the week before the engines went bad and had a wonderful time.  Imagine if when our cruise got back to port, Carnival said “we have to keep the Horizon at the dock while we work on the engines”.  People would have freaked out because they had already flown to Miami and were ready to depart.  I think it was far better to take them aboard, make the repairs underway if possible and arrange to have any parts necessary shipped and available so that at the end of the cruise, the next group, or two, would able to be warned that the ship would not be leaving.  Put yourself in Carnival’s position and the position of those cruisers who were on the ship when it had problems.  I cannot think of a better solution but I have no doubt that wanting to argue about legal issues is not the best response. 

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, rww789 said:

Don't worry, it's already been reported. The previous cruise had major engine problems that were known.

 

To whom?  FMC, the only agency under Transportation that concerns foreign flag cruise ships, only deals with refunds for cancelled cruises or death/injury on ships.  Didn't happen.  The FBI (Justice Department) deals with criminal incidents.  And, again, the USCG (Homeland Security) deals with cruise ship safety.

 

If you know that the "major engine problems" have been reported, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what those problems were?

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BlerkOne "Live from...." Rare

BlerkOne

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Joe817 said:

Methinks rww is simply trolling to get reactions to people. It joined 2 days ago, and his posts are limited to this thread. A good candidate for the ignore button. 

Agreed. It is making a dead end career out of this. Time to stop bumping the nonsense back to the top.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted

I've also contributed to the troll's feeding on his other thread where he categorically claims it is illegal to send a ship to sea with known problems.  I'm getting great giggles over this whole thing.  I really need to know what his "expert's" credentials are.

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sparks1093 Great Review Rare

sparks1093

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I've also contributed to the troll's feeding on his other thread where he categorically claims it is illegal to send a ship to sea with known problems.  I'm getting great giggles over this whole thing.  I really need to know what his "expert's" credentials are.

It is amusing. BTW, just noticed the change in your screen info. Home is the sailor, home from sea. Congratulations!

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csj092809

csj092809

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/5/2021 at 12:04 AM, rww789 said:

Angry guests get together on Horizon ship today- mad about very small refund, only $100, plus only 25% off a future cruise. Some people were saying that the cruise line knew about the engine problem- one broke down part way there. And, the cruise line sent them anyway. The cruisers lost two ports of 4, and were only given $100  for a refund. The other cruisers for the future cruises were given much more. Everything has gone wrong, bad internet, bad service, and many very unhappy people. 

 I was on the Horizon NYE cruise and was not given anything for it getting canceled if I did not agree to going on one of the other two ships they offered. I opted for a different ship and port same dates, but no OBC or anything. $100 sounds good to me, LOL. 

 

I am just happy I found another cruise for my dates 🙂

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ChrisNCruiser

ChrisNCruiser

Posted
Posted
On 12/5/2021 at 2:00 PM, icft said:

I find it hilarious that people are talking about lawsuits over this. What are your damages? They can’t be more than you paid for the cruise plus perhaps “pain and suffering.” Do you really see a judge or jury awarding “pain and suffering” to someone having to ride “Jungle Cruise” rather than “Kali River Rapids?” That is not pain and suffering; that is disappointment. But courts don’t award damages for disappointment. If they did a lot of women would be headed to the courthouse the morning after they lost their virginity.

 

Next, what is the cost of litigation? You’re probably talking $5,000 minimum to even get in the courthouse door unless you are an attorney representing yourself in which case you still have court fees.

Having just returned from a week at Disney World yesterday I just laughed out loud at this. People plan entire trips around seeing the new attractions, but there's no guarantee. We were at Hollywood Studios on Thursday and were fortunately able to get on Ride of the Resistance during the few hours the ride was functioning that day, but there had to be hundreds of P.O.ed folks who also wanted to sue. If you do your homework you'll know that these things can and do happen, and to be prepared to be happy with what you CAN do.

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wgeddings Great Review Rare

wgeddings

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I've also contributed to the troll's feeding on his other thread where he categorically claims it is illegal to send a ship to sea with known problems.  I'm getting great giggles over this whole thing.  I really need to know what his "expert's" credentials are.

5 will get you 10 it is something he read on Facebook - that infinite source of wisdom and guidance.   🙂

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