Cunard under Carnival ownership

[RICHARD@SEA]

Cunard is now part of the Carnivore Corpration - a for profit business... they can only go so far before all their marketing / sales efforts go down the drain & customers turn away from their product. But certainly customers cannot expect the same treatment that pre Carnivore / Cunard gave before.

 

It will be interesting to see what type of bonuses the Carnivore management receives for the 2021 year......

[exlondoner]

Are you suggesting that before it was owned/saved by Carnival, the Cunard Line wasn't attempting, not always a successfully, to make a profit? Seems somewhat unlikely.

[PORT ROYAL]

7 minutes ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

 

It will be interesting to see what type of bonuses the Carnivore management receives for the 2021 year......

Think “receives” should read “will award  themselves”

Knowing the quality of the crew, feel the actual service levels will not drop, but what they’re allowed to “serve up” will be a totally different product going forward.  Don’t think there will be Carnivore cuts, more like axe wounds.

[Host Hattie]

31 minutes ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

Cunard is now part of the Carnivore Corpration - a for profit business... they can only go so far before all their marketing / sales efforts go down the drain & customers turn away from their product. But certainly customers cannot expect the same treatment that pre Carnivore / Cunard gave before.

 

It will be interesting to see what type of bonuses the Carnivore management receives for the 2021 year......

Aren't all businesses for profit ?? And Cunard has been part of Carnival for 24 years so it's not exactly new !

[Mickb]

It is perhaps worth remembering that without the acquisition by Carnival Corp, there would not have been a QM2- or for that matter a QV/QE either. Cunard were not in a good financial position prior to Carnival taking over. I don’t believe that Carnival are any worse than than Royal Caribbean or Norwegian. These guys are in business to make money for their shareholders - we live in a capitalist world whether we like it or not. Personally I love cruising,  think the Cunard product suits me better than any other line and yes the drinks are expensive - but if that bothered me too much I wouldn’t cruise!

[PORT ROYAL]

16 minutes ago, kohl1957 said:

Actually the drinks are NOT expensive if you compare, as you should, with those in any big city hotel bar or restaurant. Try pricing a martini in New York or indeed  London (if you can find a good enough one to drink). With me, though, they make it up in volume.

And ambiance, plus Cocktails are made to fresh order not poured from a carton.

[P2l]

13 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

And ambiance

That's what I'm after (and was hoping to experience on Monday...alas, I shall have to wait a little longer).

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Mickb said:

It is perhaps worth remembering that without the acquisition by Carnival Corp, there would not have been a QM2- or for that matter a QV/QE either. Cunard were not in a good financial position prior to Carnival taking over. I don’t believe that Carnival are any worse than than Royal Caribbean or Norwegian. These guys are in business to make money for their shareholders - we live in a capitalist world whether we like it or not. Personally I love cruising,  think the Cunard product suits me better than any other line and yes the drinks are expensive - but if that bothered me too much I wouldn’t cruise!

 

It's easy to blame "Carnivore" for changes one dislikes in Cunard, but I agree with you that the Cunard we know today would not exist without Carnival Corp. They bought Cunard for the fame of QE2 and cachet of the Cunard name, not because the line was profitable at that point. I also think they knew the fascination with Titanic and White Star could bring in customers. It wasn't an act of kindness or saving a beloved ship; it was getting something at a good price. I believe they bought Holland America years before that, also at a good price for a line with some money troubles. 

If you look at the variety of lines Carnival Corp owns, they've got something for everyone, a smart business model. The Cunard product suits me, too, while there are other lines that Carnival owns that wouldn't suit me at all.

[exlondoner]

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

And ambiance, plus Cocktails are made to fresh order not poured from a carton.

 

An, with a bit of luck, youget nice canapés. Or have they stopped those

[Megabear2]

31 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

It's easy to blame "Carnivore" for changes one dislikes in Cunard, but I agree with you that the Cunard we know today would not exist without Carnival Corp. They bought Cunard for the fame of QE2 and cachet of the Cunard name, not because the line was profitable at that point. I also think they knew the fascination with Titanic and White Star could bring in customers. It wasn't an act of kindness or saving a beloved ship; it was getting something at a good price. I believe they bought Holland America years before that, also at a good price for a line with some money troubles. 

If you look at the variety of lines Carnival Corp owns, they've got something for everyone, a smart business model. The Cunard product suits me, too, while there are other lines that Carnival owns that wouldn't suit me at all.

The law firm I worked for in the late 1980s sold QE2 to Kvaerner from Trafalfar House (the former being basically an asset stripper). Cunard went back on sale two days later and about 20 months later we sold Cunard to Carnival.  There were other ships including merchant men and container ships but the QE2 was the draw.

 

Kvaerner entered into an agreement with Carnival to build more ships for Cunard but they never materialised under the Cunard brand but did go on to form the Carnival Line fleet.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

The law firm I worked for in the late 1980s sold QE2 to Kvaerner from Trafalfar House (the former being basically an asset stripper). Cunard went back on sale two days later and about 20 months later we sold Cunard to Carnival.  There were other ships including merchant men and container ships but the QE2 was the draw.

 

Kvaerner entered into an agreement with Carnival to build more ships for Cunard but they never materialised under the Cunard brand but did go on to form the Carnival Line fleet.

 

I think Carnival got Seabourn as part of that purchase. 

[Megabear2]

They already owned Seabourn. There were some minority partners in the Cunard purchase.  Trafalgar had been a disaster so the main thing was to keep the QE2 with all the glamour that went with her. Carnival were already the  biggest cruise line in the world at that point.  

[PORT ROYAL]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

 

An, with a bit of luck, youget nice canapés. Or have they stopped those

They run out quickly in the Commodore.   However, a quiet word with your drinks waiter…….😊 Followed by an appreciation ……😉

Edited January 7, 2022 by PORT ROYAL
Typo

[NSWP]

8 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

Aren't all businesses for profit ?? And Cunard has been part of Carnival for 24 years so it's not exactly new !

Exactly and without Carnival takeover, Cunard would not exist. Many Cunarders don't like to hear that word 'Carnival' Tough, they are your saviour, lol.

[tv24]

13 hours ago, kohl1957 said:

Actually the drinks are NOT expensive if you compare, as you should, with those in any big city hotel bar or restaurant. Try pricing a martini in New York or indeed  London (if you can find a good enough one to drink). With me, though, they make it up in volume.

Could not agree more.  I happily pay almost twice as much for a good drink in NY or London or San Francisco than I pay on the QM2.  So IMHO the drinks are a good buy on Cunard.  You get the lovely atmosphere for free.

[RICHARD@SEA]

In reference to Cunard being bought by Carnivore.....for some that sailed on QE2 & remember the true luxury of travelling on an ocean liner, there is a vast difference.  The quality has certainly diminished both above & below decks.  From having an all British Officer staff to having stewards & waiters trained in the traditional sense.  Instead the old guard was replaced w less expensive staff from other countries more than happy to work for lower wages.

Not all corporations are for profit(charitable enterprises) but certainly Carnival brought a new meaning to "profitability".  The larger ships, smaller staff ratios  - basically floating malls at sea have brought great profit margins to Carnivore.  Why have a promenade deck when you can throw in a  few extra cabins...do away w/ the aft pool for more cabins...certainly the beauty  of the sea has been sacrificed.

As far as pricing...if you cant afford the  voyage, you shouldn't be on it.  Do you bring food to a restaurant on land to save $$$ ?

 

I also have to mention the negative environmental  issues associatted w these large ships.  I applaud ports such as  Venice &  Key West that now ban the larger ships...hopefully more ports will do the same.

I  sailed in QE2 several times & loved it.  I also sailed in QM2 - I enjoyed it but there was no comparison.  Imade the best of it so I could return to the sea.

 

Certainly anyone can see the demise of the luxury product of an ocean voyage.

 

Some experiences in life should just fade into the past.....not all change is good.

 

[Host Hattie]

I've moved the Carnival ownership discussion to a new thread

 

[navybankerteacher]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:26 PM, NSWP said:

Exactly and without Carnival takeover, Cunard would not exist. Many Cunarders don't like to hear that word 'Carnival' Tough, they are your saviour, lol.

Are you claiming that Cunard, as it is currently operating as a sub of Carnival, only exists because (while losing money) it is being subsidized by  Carnival?    Aside from COVID craziness, it must be assumed that Carnival sees Cunard as a profit-generating operation.  
 

There is no certainty that Cunard would not exist - the only real certainty is that Cunard’s owners decided at the time that it was in their interest to sell the operation to Carnival.

 

Of course, it can be argued that something can cease to “exist”  if it loses the essence of what it was that made it what it was.  Certainly, the HAL that many of us knew pre-Carnival no longer “exists”.  The name remains - but little else.  

[Megabear2]

Trafalgar was a disaster of an organisation at the end and nearly bust at the point their ships went Kvananear.  Presumably without that sale, the next step would have been a fire sale and QE2 was the only thing making money when we organised the first sale of assets.

 

Kvananear were only ever the stop gap solution, they certainly only liked one thing in the "parcel" they bought, so I guess unpalatable as it is to some Carnival may well have been salvation.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Megabear2

[3rdGenCunarder]

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you claiming that Cunard, as it is currently operating as a sub of Carnival, only exists because (while losing money) it is being subsidized by  Carnival?    Aside from COVID craziness, it must be assumed that Carnival sees Cunard as a profit-generating operation.  
 

There is no certainty that Cunard would not exist - the only real certainty is that Cunard’s owners decided at the time that it was in their interest to sell the operation to Carnival.

 

Of course, it can be argued that something can cease to “exist”  if it loses the essence of what it was that made it what it was.  Certainly, the HAL that many of us knew pre-Carnival no longer “exists”.  The name remains - but little else.  

 

Cruising on any mass market line isn't the same as it was in the 1980s (HAL was bought by Carnival in 1989). Competition and marketplace pressure have kept prices down. Allowing for inflation, we're probably all paying less for comparable cabins now than we did in the 80s and 90s. I know I am. If lines can't raise prices and stay competitive, then they make cuts onboard. So now I get a bottle of Pole Axer instead of Dom (yes, WC gold members got an embarkation of Dom Perignon on QE2). Hey ho, it's still a great way to travel.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, kohl1957 said:

Well, I have sailed in QE2 (five times in every imaginable class, crossings, cruising), CARONIA (twice), QM2 (twice and soon to be a third this Friday,  Britannia, Queens and Princess Grills)), QUEEN ELIZABETH (twice, Britannia and Grills)) and QUEEN VICTORIA (twice, Grills)... since 1977. So that's Cunard under Trafalgar House, Kvananaer, and Carnival.

 

I can say, from own experiences, the on board experience under Carnival is... far superior... on all counts, all classes, crossings and cruising than under previous owners. Yes, I miss the oldtimers like Dennis Dawson. And we still count CARONIA as our no. 1 favourite. But really like QV (far more than QE) and maybe QM2 will grow on us on a 28-day cruise rather than a six-day crossing. But the essentials (for us) of cuisine, service, ship maintenance and venues aboard are all far superior to the Old Cunard.  I wish the all British crew of yore were better than the multinationals of today. But overall, they were not. I miss the characterful officers, though... today's are nonentities at least with our experience.  The ships are far better maintained. It all runs quite smoothly.  The deck crew of QV are worthy of a Royal Yacht and she looks it. QE... not so much. 

 

Finally... yes the evolving "Carnivalisation" worries... the dumbing down of the dress code and that awful sounding QUEEN K'DAM with no promenade. We wouldn't touch it with a barge pole from the sound of it. 

 

But we are content to give Cunard/Carnival another chance to be... bloody marvelous.  They haven't less us down in, gosh, at least 25 years.  Indeed, we had our honeymoon on QE2 trans-Atlantic so we are biased no doubt. 

 

I'd love a time machine and book R.M.S. FRANCONIA to the Med from N.Y. c. 1912.  But mine has never worked alas.  We take what we are given. 

That's a great post

 

Before my time

 

But a great post

[Mickb]

I agree with Kohl1957. We used to cruise HAL and saw the line gradually lose its focus (imo). They tried for a young demographic - understandable - we are all aging and frequently hear of long term posters on these boards passing on - their rationale was understandable. The problem is that they ended up pleasing no one - younger or older. I sincerely hope that Cunard do not try the same approach - encouraged by the Carnival beancounters. The long term effects of COVID have left Carnival in a far weaker position and sacrifices may have to be made. I just hope it’s not Cunard!

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's a great post

 

Before my time

 

But a great post

Once a Cunarder always a Cunarder! Time to try it, ICF?

[jimbo1683]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:30 PM, PORT ROYAL said:

And ambiance, plus Cocktails are made to fresh order not poured from a carton.

I dont know where youve been drinking but i have never seen a pre mix coctktail served in a bar. Never.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

Not all corporations are for profit(charitable enterprises) but certainly Carnival brought a new meaning to "profitability". 

I love these kinds of comments.  Carnival is no more "profitable" (and I use the real measure of a company's "profitability", which is "return on investment") than any other cruise line, and is around mid-level compared to all industries and businesses.

4 hours ago, RICHARD@SEA said:

I also have to mention the negative environmental  issues associatted w these large ships.  I applaud ports such as  Venice &  Key West that now ban the larger ships...hopefully more ports will do the same.

Key West did not have an environmental issue with large ships, just with the crowds of tourists degrading the ambiance of life there.  Venice has an environmental issue, but that includes smaller ships as well (only very small expedition type ships are allowed there now).  What other "environmental" issues are associated with large ships?

 

And, as for the "ambiance" of the old Cunard ships, I sailed on QE2, and while I enjoyed it, guess what, the market has changed, and Cunard went from being the prime "liner service" to a "niche market" within cruising, and if you paid the extra to bring back the "old ambiance", it would become even more of a niche market.  The corporation that survives is one that meets it's market's expectations.