Ecstasy and Sensation are now due to retire

[CruiseAdict218]

Saw this pop up on Facebook: https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/26730-two-more-ships-to-leave-carnival-cruise-line-fleet.html

[brilliantseas]

Well that is no good! I thought we might see the Fantasy-class ships that feature the added balconies stick around a bit longer. This announcement also leads me to believe Elation will be gone after she completes her current Port Canaveral schedule in April of 2023. 

[CruiseAdict218]

From their media page on their website: https://carnival-news.com/2022/02/03/carnival-cruise-line-provides-more-updates-to-2022-fleet-deployment-plans/

[CruiseAdict218]

4 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

Well that is no good! I thought we might see the Fantasy-class ships that feature the added balconies stick around a bit longer. This announcement also leads me to believe Elation will be gone after she completes her current Port Canaveral schedule in April of 2023. 

Those two are older, Elation and Paradise also use azipods which makes them worth more.

 

Also a new ship will be assigned to Jacksonville after April so it will probably be Elation. (But I'm just guessing)....

 

Jacksonville: As previously announced, the Carnival Spirit will replace the Carnival Ecstasy in Jacksonville. While that will happen for departures from Mar. 7 through Apr. 9, 2022, the next two cruises are being cancelled, and then a new ship will be assigned from the Carnival fleet to Jacksonville for the Ecstasy itineraries, effective Apr. 23, 2022. That announcement will be made shortly.

[brilliantseas]

3 minutes ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

Those two are older, Elation and Paradise also use azipods which makes them worth more.

 

Also a new ship will be assigned to Jacksonville after April so it will probably be Elation. (But I'm just guessing)....

 

Jacksonville: As previously announced, the Carnival Spirit will replace the Carnival Ecstasy in Jacksonville. While that will happen for departures from Mar. 7 through Apr. 9, 2022, the next two cruises are being cancelled, and then a new ship will be assigned from the Carnival fleet to Jacksonville for the Ecstasy itineraries, effective Apr. 23, 2022. That announcement will be made shortly.

 

I guess the people of Jacksonville don't deserve a Spirit-class ship. That leaves Elation or Paradise to pick up the slack. The bigger question that I have is which ship will pick up Mobile? Unlike Tampa and Jacksonville, Mobile can accommodate a Conquest class ship, but can it support another 900 berths, or does Carnival back out of Mobile after Ecstasy retires? 

[ch09]

31 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

I guess the people of Jacksonville don't deserve a Spirit-class ship. That leaves Elation or Paradise to pick up the slack. The bigger question that I have is which ship will pick up Mobile? Unlike Tampa and Jacksonville, Mobile can accommodate a Conquest class ship, but can it support another 900 berths, or does Carnival back out of Mobile after Ecstasy retires? 

The Paradise has been sailing from Tampa since 2012, which is the longest of any ship in the fleet. Therefore, the Paradise could also be a candidate for Jacksonville to give the Tampa area a new option.

Edited February 4, 2022 by ch09

[tidecat]

I would think Mobile's fate rests solely on the Australian government. Costa Magica will be a Carnival ship by the fall. She slides into Port Canaveral, which opens up Elation for Jacksonville or Mobile. The question is whether Carnival Spirit will still be in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

If Australia is still shuttered, Carnival Splendor is also still on the bench. She could be redployed anywhere besides TPA, JAX, or BAL, but I would expect Carnival Miracle would be heading east to fill the gap in Mobile - the capacity difference is minimal compared to a Fantasy-class ship, and larger tonnage could be redployed to the West Coast, and therefore Alaska.

 

Elation and Paradise are both less than 25 years old, and have had recent major renovations that added a deck - they should be safe for some time.

 

If Australia reopens, Mobile may be done.

 

The biggest question I have as a Carnival shareholder is if Australia doesn't reopen, what happens to the P&O Australia brand? One of those three ships was just moved out of the Princess fleet.

[Indytraveler83]

Anyone have any educated guesses on how much longer Elation and Paradise will remain?

 

Elation was our first, and we'd love to sail one last time before she heads to the breakers.  We've been hoping the updates and new paint mean she's still got a few more years left?

[ch09]

2 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

Anyone have any educated guesses on how much longer Elation and Paradise will remain?

 

Elation was our first, and we'd love to sail one last time before she heads to the breakers.  We've been hoping the updates and new paint mean she's still got a few more years left?

Probably until 2027-2030

Edited February 4, 2022 by ch09

[brilliantseas]

9 minutes ago, tidecat said:

I would think Mobile's fate rests solely on the Australian government. Costa Magica will be a Carnival ship by the fall. She slides into Port Canaveral, which opens up Elation for Jacksonville or Mobile. The question is whether Carnival Spirit will still be in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

If Australia is still shuttered, Carnival Splendor is also still on the bench. She could be redployed anywhere besides TPA, JAX, or BAL, but I would expect Carnival Miracle would be heading east to fill the gap in Mobile - the capacity difference is minimal compared to a Fantasy-class ship, and larger tonnage could be redployed to the West Coast, and therefore Alaska.

 

Elation and Paradise are both less than 25 years old, and have had recent major renovations that added a deck - they should be safe for some time.

 

If Australia reopens, Mobile may be done.

 

The biggest question I have as a Carnival shareholder is if Australia doesn't reopen, what happens to the P&O Australia brand? One of those three ships was just moved out of the Princess fleet.

 

I know Spirit was previously adapted for the Australian market, but do they need the smaller ship size to clear bridges, or could they leave her in N.A. and send Costa Magica to Australia. Another "new" ship strengthens their brand in Australia, and it frees up all four Spirit class ships to fill in some of the gaps left with the retirement of the Fantasy class, as well as provides for the future of Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Tampa. 

[tidecat]

34 minutes ago, ch09 said:

Probably until 2027-2030

The second half of this decade and/or the first half of the 2030s may get interesting given the building boom from the second half of the 1990s and early 2000s. Sunshine turns 30 in 2026, Elation and Paradise turn 30 in 2028, Sunrise in 2029, Radiance in 2030; Spirit in 2031; Pride, Legend, and Conquest in 2032; Glory in 2033; and Miracle and Valor in 2034. After Liberty turns 30 in 2035 things slow down somewhat.

 

The low height ships may get a stay of execution depending on how long Carnival is willing to make Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore work.

[pogoism9]

45 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Spirit in 2031; Pride, Legend, and Conquest in 2032; Glory in 2033; and Miracle and Valor in 2034. 

 

The low height ships may get a stay of execution depending on how long Carnival is willing to make Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore work.

 

My gut feeling is that the 4 Spirit ships are going to get the Sunshine/Rise/Radiance treatment to give them more years. They are smaller and older, but provide immense value for the brand since they are purpose built for harbors with clearance issues, and the fact that they get sent to some pretty far off places (think Greenland, etc)

[brilliantseas]

40 minutes ago, tidecat said:

The low height ships may get a stay of execution depending on how long Carnival is willing to make Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore work.

 

Tampa and Baltimore both appear to have above average yields, although the smaller ships have a higher break-even point. Both also have major airports, with Baltimore being a Southwest hub and Tampa seeing service from most major cities. Tampa has the demand to support two ships, and I think Baltimore might be able to support a second seasonally if they had the ship available and the port could find parking for a third weekly departure. It is positioned to support Bahamas cruising year-round, with a second ship sailing to Bermuda or Canada / New England during the warmer months. I think parking is the biggest challenge for future growth in Baltimore. 

 

I have less confidence in Jacksonville. The fact that they are willing to pull a Spirit class ship to immediately replace it with another Fantasy class and that it is the only one of the three that doesn't regularly support 7-night sailings tells me it is likely most at risk. The 4-and-5 night sailings are the bread and butter of the local market ports, but Jacksonville has PC to the south and Charleston to the north to compete with, and neither of those ports are height restricted. 

[Jamman54]

2 hours ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

Those two are older, Elation and Paradise also use azipods which makes them worth more.

 

Also a new ship will be assigned to Jacksonville after April so it will probably be Elation. (But I'm just guessing)....

 

Jacksonville: As previously announced, the Carnival Spirit will replace the Carnival Ecstasy in Jacksonville. While that will happen for departures from Mar. 7 through Apr. 9, 2022, the next two cruises are being cancelled, and then a new ship will be assigned from the Carnival fleet to Jacksonville for the Ecstasy itineraries, effective Apr. 23, 2022. That announcement will be made shortly.

Scratching my head over this one. If the plan is to move the Elation or Paradise to Jacksonville in April, why wouldn't the Spirit go directly to Port Canaveral or Tampa so the switch could be made. Why send the Spirit to Jacksonville for a month? Doesn't make sense to me. 😖

[pogoism9]

2 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

Tampa and Baltimore both appear to have above average yields, although the smaller ships have a higher break-even point. Both also have major airports, with Baltimore being a Southwest hub and Tampa seeing service from most major cities. Tampa has the demand to support two ships, and I think Baltimore might be able to support a second seasonally if they had the ship available and the port could find parking for a third weekly departure. It is positioned to support Bahamas cruising year-round, with a second ship sailing to Bermuda or Canada / New England during the warmer months. I think parking is the biggest challenge for future growth in Baltimore. 

 

I have less confidence in Jacksonville. The fact that they are willing to pull a Spirit class ship to immediately replace it with another Fantasy class and that it is the only one of the three that doesn't regularly support 7-night sailings tells me it is likely most at risk. The 4-and-5 night sailings are the bread and butter of the local market ports, but Jacksonville has PC to the south and Charleston to the north to compete with, and neither of those ports are height restricted. 

 

Pre-Covid Pride was always full (or darn close). It wouldn't make any sense to add a second ship there because it would have to be a Spirit, and whats the point of that? I do agree on the parking situation though, as one lot is Carnival, and the other is Royal. The other down side is a second carnival ship would have to sail on a weekday since Royal sails on Saturdays and Carnival Sundays. Just recently when they shortened the 14 day Legend sailing, they sailed as normal on Sunday, but when they got back on Tuesday or Wednesday 10 days later, they pretty much had to debark, resupply, and go 10 hours down the bay again and just do donuts off the coast of North Carolina until late that Saturday, when the trip back up the bay. If there weren't a Royal ship there, they could have technically ate the port fees instead of having to go back out to sea (although likely would have gone back out anyway)

[brilliantseas]

7 minutes ago, pogoism9 said:

 

My gut feeling is that the 4 Spirit ships are going to get the Sunshine/Rise/Radiance treatment to give them more years. They are smaller and older, but provide immense value for the brand since they are purpose built for harbors with clearance issues, and the fact that they get sent to some pretty far off places (think Greenland, etc)

 

Keep in mind that Carnival also owns Holland America, which has four Vista class ships, which are similar in size and age to the Spirit class ships. HAL's Vista class also has the domed pool We may see Carnival re-visit this form factor with a one-size-fits-all-brands class of ships to serve similar purposes in the 2030s. 

[pogoism9]

2 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

Keep in mind that Carnival also owns Holland America, which has four Vista class ships, which are similar in size and age to the Spirit class ships. HAL's Vista class also has the domed pool We may see Carnival re-visit this form factor with a one-size-fits-all-brands class of ships to serve similar purposes in the 2030s. 

 

Yeah, i'm with ya there. At some point Carnival and Royal are going to have to accept the fact that they can't build all XL and Oasis class ships. Its sort of like an arms race currently. 

 

[brilliantseas]

1 minute ago, pogoism9 said:

 

Pre-Covid Pride was always full (or darn close). It wouldn't make any sense to add a second ship there because it would have to be a Spirit, and whats the point of that? I do agree on the parking situation though, as one lot is Carnival, and the other is Royal. The other down side is a second carnival ship would have to sail on a weekday since Royal sails on Saturdays and Carnival Sundays. Just recently when they shortened the 14 day Legend sailing, they sailed as normal on Sunday, but when they got back on Tuesday or Wednesday 10 days later, they pretty much had to debark, resupply, and go 10 hours down the bay again and just do donuts off the coast of North Carolina until late that Saturday, when the trip back up the bay. If there weren't a Royal ship there, they could have technically ate the port fees instead of having to go back out to sea (although likely would have gone back out anyway)

 

Nearly identical ships in Baltimore is no different than having Dream and Breeze in Galveston, Valor and Glory in New Orleans, and Conquest and Freedom in Miami. I would assume they would sail different itineraries, sending one south and the other east to Bermuda or north to NE/Canada. If parking wasn't an issue, I wonder if they could make a Friday departure work seasonally during the summer months? 

[pogoism9]

4 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

Nearly identical ships in Baltimore is no different than having Dream and Breeze in Galveston, Valor and Glory in New Orleans, and Conquest and Freedom in Miami. I would assume they would sail different itineraries, sending one south and the other east to Bermuda or north to NE/Canada. If parking wasn't an issue, I wonder if they could make a Friday departure work seasonally during the summer months? 

 

I'm sure they could, but traffic would be a ball buster i'm sure, particularly coming from Virginia

[tidecat]

Would a 5/5/4 rotation out of Baltimore work? Five-day cruise leaves on Wednesday, four-day leaving on Monday, and five-day leaving on Friday. That said, it might be a push to even get to Freeport or Bermuda and back in four days.

[BlerkOne]

Stupid Fantasy Class Tricks

 

Carnival is still showing Sensation as booking from Mobile. I was looking for a cheap cabin that exists on Sensation that doesn't exist on Ecstasy to see what Carnival would do, but I failed. Instead I found 1a cabins that don't have a single supplement, so there's that.

[silversneakers]

10 hours ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

Those two are older, Elation and Paradise also use azipods which makes them worth more.

 

Also a new ship will be assigned to Jacksonville after April so it will probably be Elation. (But I'm just guessing)....

 

Jacksonville: As previously announced, the Carnival Spirit will replace the Carnival Ecstasy in Jacksonville. While that will happen for departures from Mar. 7 through Apr. 9, 2022, the next two cruises are being cancelled, and then a new ship will be assigned from the Carnival fleet to Jacksonville for the Ecstasy itineraries, effective Apr. 23, 2022. That announcement will be made shortly.

Elation crew is wonderful...ship not so much....time to retire!

[Joebucks]

8 hours ago, pogoism9 said:

 

Yeah, i'm with ya there. At some point Carnival and Royal are going to have to accept the fact that they can't build all XL and Oasis class ships. Its sort of like an arms race currently. 

 

 

I believe they have already accepted that. Why not put the mega ships where you can though? Let's be real. There still are plenty of "smaller" ships that can go to all of the ports who can't handle the mega ships. The Fantasy class is not really any kind of draw. Especially one that can command any type of premium fare or onboard spend.

[Jasonsterling]

Ah that's too bad. I had always thought I'd try to squeeze in another sailing on Sensation when her retirement was announcement as she was the first ship I sailed on. I wonder if the plan is to scuttle the ships or if, especially the Sensation, have been sold. The fact the Sensation is immediately leaving seems more like a sale. Most of the Fantasy class has been on the market for years but maybe there was a mechanical issue that couldn't justify the costs to fix so she's headed to the beach.  

[toad455]

are the ships being scrapped or sold to another cruise line?