Tipping now more important than ever

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, onlyslightlymad said:

Oh please don't.  Respect the customs of the countries that you visit.

 

"Respect the customs of the countries that you visit."

 

That is the best way, though I would say "follow" instead of "respect".   It really comes down to good manners I think.

 

There are some countries I won't visit because I have no respect for some of their customs.  

[ldubs]

Some of the comments in this thread have me scratching my head.   The following are from a popular travel guide for Europe, which for the sake of this discussion can we say includes Britain (with apologies to those who disagree).    

 

Is this information accurate?   And, when a service charge is added to a restaurant tab, I seem to recall that is over and above what is shown on the menu.  But my memory could be faulty.   

 

"Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5–10 percent is normal. In most places, 10 percent is a big tip."

 

"At hotels with porters, pay the porter a euro for each bag they carry."

[frantic36]

56 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I am fascinated that employee performance is uniform across the board.  I understand that the standards are uniform and set high.   But surely some, whatever metrics you use, exceed the standards.  Is there any incentive for those who outperform the minimum standards? 

 

I can only answer for myself but as I stated before I do tip if someone goes above and beyond,  say a concierge, waitress etc but it is done discretely at the end of service with cash.  I also give feedback to the restaurant owner or hotel manager and mention their name and good service. 

 

I am comfortable that people are not requiring my tips to survive if they just are capable of doing what needs to be done not having to outperform all the time. Which is what I thought the original idea for giving a tip was?

 

 

[frantic36]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

"Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5–10 percent is normal. In most places, 10 percent is a big tip."

 

I have been told in Europe you just round up, leave the change or don't worry and have never had an issue with service or been chased down the road 🙂. I must admit I am finding this has changed more in the UK and like I said in some of the big cities in Australia but I wish it wouldn't/hadn't. 

 

 

[Peter Lanky]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Tipping in Mexico (especially by Gringos) is fine (we live in Mexico 10 weeks every year).  But there are some places where tipping is actually seen as in insult and tippers are quietly viewed as naïve idiots.  Some others might call it the Ugly American syndrome where some Americans try to project American culture where it is neither wanted nor considered proper.  Japan (a place I once lived for 2 years) is one such place and there are quite a few others.

 

This entire thread is kind of sad but also enlightening.  Most wise travelers try to learn something of the culture of the places they visit and adapt to that culture.  But there are others who insist on sticking with their own culture (like saying "mine is better then yours") which is not something that makes friends.  I still remember the first time we visited Australia and were out with some Aussie friends who made it a point to discourage us from leaving a tip.  They explained that "they pay folks a living wage" and that they resent anyone trying to impose their own culture on their country.  We have met folks in the UK who have the same attitude although in more recent years there does seem to be more folks in the UK who do tip. 

 

So in the USA it is now considered proper (by many) to tip around 20% in decent restaurants.  But in Italy, a 20% tip would be considered ostentatious and although accepted would not engender any respect (you would probably be considered an idiot and a show off).   And it is the same the world over where countries (and even regions within a country) have their own culturally based tipping standards.

 

Having lived in a foreign country (Japan for 2 years) I too often saw fellow Americans projecting our culture which I knew was very insulting to most Japanese.  Not only was it embarrassing (for me to see) but it did nothing to get the respect of the locals.  This taught me at an early age (I was in my 20s) to respect local culture and do my best to show my respect by adhering to the customs of my host country.  Perhaps that has now changed and it is OK to push one's own beliefs onto the world...but I am still old fashioned and will continue to respect local cultures.  Maybe that is why after more than half a century as an avid world traveler (and cruiser) I have never tired of travel and its many related adventures.

 

Hank  

I am guessing that you will be quite saddened by the comments of one of your fellow countrymen posting in this thread who seems quite happy to do their own thing while abroad while expecting visitors to the US to respect US customs.

 

One of the problems in the UK population, and I would guess the same for other western countries is that for the majority of British who have never ventured beyond Spain, where they only meet other British tourists and have never really interacted with Americans, believe that all Americans are the same as the person in question; very loud and approach every situation like a bulldozer. This goes a long way to explaining the constant antagonism between many Brits, Americans Aussies etc on forums.

 

I would like to think that people will read your post and absorb the content. I am somewhat different in that I don't tip because I am very strongly against the practice for all the reasons already covered. I avoid any problems by not visiting the type of places where tipping is expected, including cruises and the USA. I can assure you that I get a lot of criticism for this approach, but it solves a lot of problems for me. Most of my travel has been in Asia, where tipping is not the norm, but this 'honeymoon period' may soon come to an end because most Asian people cannot distinguish between people from different nations who are white and speak English, and are slowly starting to enjoy people handing over large sums of money for no apparent reason.

 

Now that non tipping cruises are becoming widespread, I have now been able to start to consider cruising. In fact I have already had 3 booked and cancelled due to covid. I have only last week had to cancel another one scheduled next week due to illness of my wife and it's almost a relief. The cruise was due to start from Miami and involved an overnight stay, which I was dreading because of the tipping culture. I would be being forced to do something I really didn't want to do. This may seem crazy to people who think that they understand everybody else's feelings based on their own standards, but nobody knows how other people think.

 

On another note you make, about tipping in the UK, yes it does happen and maybe it is increasing, not because more people think it's a great idea, but because so many feel forced into doing it, especially the social media influenced younger generation. It is certainly an ego thing for many in the UK, and those people like to bully other people in their party to follow suit, usually alcohol fuelled. Many restaurants now add a 'service charge', not to supplement the staff wages, but simply because they can. The staff are on minimum wage by law and It's an extra 10% profit for doing nothing. I avoid the situation by not going to such restaurants, which also has the benefit of waiters not fawning over me for the entire meal, as my respect goes to those who cook the food, and not to those carrying a plate to me.

[KBs mum]

41 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Some of the comments in this thread have me scratching my head.   The following are from a popular travel guide for Europe, which for the sake of this discussion can we say includes Britain (with apologies to those who disagree).    

 

Is this information accurate?   And, when a service charge is added to a restaurant tab, I seem to recall that is over and above what is shown on the menu.  But my memory could be faulty.   

 

"Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5–10 percent is normal. In most places, 10 percent is a big tip."

 

"At hotels with porters, pay the porter a euro for each bag they carry."

It's incorrect for the UK, service is  included in the price on the menu, there is sometimes an extra % cost for large groups, but this will be stated on the menu. 

There is no need to pay any extra. If a service charge appears after the final total for food and drink it is optional and should not be regarded as a tip, as it may go to the establishment not the staff. Best to not pay it and if you want to tip do so in cash and hand it directly to the person. 

 

It is customary for those in large groups to each add a small amount to a communal tip. 

 

It's often the case that you don't see the porters, after handing the bag over at the door it then appears in the room. When you do see them the person will often be in and out before you've had a chance to get your wallet out. Unlike in the US they won't stand there waiting with their hand out. 

 

Most Brits don't tip, unless the person went above and beyond their job description, then the tip is a thank you gift. If I tip its £5 or £10, (as in thank you, much appreciated, have a drink on us) 

I don't know of any country in Europe where the situation is much different. 

[Peter Lanky]

57 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

I am comfortable that people are not requiring my tips to survive if they just are capable of doing what needs to be done not having to outperform all the time. Which is what I thought the original idea for giving a tip was?

 

 

From what I've read, the practice of tipping originally started not to secure better service, but as a means of queue jumping. Apparently is was an acronym for 'to insure promptitude' which is poor English for starters and it should be 'to ensure promptitude', so really people should be Tepping. 😁

[Peter Lanky]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Some of the comments in this thread have me scratching my head.   The following are from a popular travel guide for Europe, which for the sake of this discussion can we say includes Britain (with apologies to those who disagree).

It is correct to assume Europe includes Britain. Despite being slightly detached by a very useful strip of water, we are very much part of the continent.

 

We are not however part of the European Union, which is a political organisation that Europe never needed and forced on the UK by politicians with feathering their own nests being the main motivation. Leaving it caused and still does cause very heated discussions similar to those on tipping.  Not that we in the UK are free of pointless political organisations as we still have the Scottish parliament and the Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies, none of which are very popular with people who think things through. In fact the NI assembly isn't even popular with itself. 😉

 

We don't use the 'Monopoly Money' used in the rest of Europe, also unpopular with many of those who had it forced upon them. Almost all those I have spoken to would like their traditional currencies back, though as time passes and the older generation dies, people are becoming more accepting of it.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

Some of the comments in this thread have me scratching my head.   The following are from a popular travel guide for Europe, which for the sake of this discussion can we say includes Britain (with apologies to those who disagree).    

 

Is this information accurate?   And, when a service charge is added to a restaurant tab, I seem to recall that is over and above what is shown on the menu.  But my memory could be faulty.   

 

"Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5–10 percent is normal. In most places, 10 percent is a big tip."

 

"At hotels with porters, pay the porter a euro for each bag they carry."

 

Any guide that says so and so custom in "Europe" is generally inaccurate😜. Europe is not a country and customs vary greatly in every place for example in Poland that rule may work but in Finland or most of Scandinavia they will think you left your money behind. Even in the country itself the rules can vary like in Bratislava tipping is normal (usually 10%, 20% if you think it was amazing) but elsewhere in Slovakia they don't really know what tipping is which we learnt awkwardly in Kosice😂. At the end of the day there is no "Europe" guide to tipping it needs to be more specific to location. The only general rule I would say applies is if you don't tip it is not considered a big deal as it is in USA. 

 

2 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

We don't use the 'Monopoly Money' used in the rest of Europe, also unpopular with many of those who had it forced upon them. Almost all those I have spoken to would like their traditional currencies back, though as time passes and the older generation dies, people are becoming more accepting of it.

 

Don't want to derail but I wanted to say my experience has been quite different. Everywhere I have gone in Europe they love the Euro. Many seem to appreciate the higher value it has compared to their old currencies. One Portuguese traveller I met in Croatia said with Euro travel became cheaper than with the Escudo. 

[Peter Lanky]

1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

Don't want to derail but I wanted to say my experience has been quite different. Everywhere I have gone in Europe they love the Euro. Many seem to appreciate the higher value it has compared to their old currencies. One Portuguese traveller I met in Croatia said with Euro travel became cheaper than with the Escudo. 

That's very possible in Southern Europe where the currencies were much weaker, though it has caused the Greek economy many problems, as well as raising prices to northern Europe levels. Most I have spoken to were Germans, Dutch and French who were very fond of their Deutschmarks, Guilders and Francs. 

[Hlitner]

A few more thoughts :).  There was a time when I would take 4 or 5 wallets on my trips to Europe and Asia so I had a different wallet for each currency.   The dawn of the Euro made things a lot easier and I have never missed trying to calculate the exchange rates for the Italian Lira, Drachma, Francs, etc.  We have talked to quite a few European workers (mostly hotel staff and waiters) about the Euro and most are OK with the convenience.  But when in Spain and Greece we have heard lots of complaints from locals who have complained that the value of their money has declined because of the Euro (they may be mistaken as to the cause, but that is what they think).

 

I continue to believe that those (whether Americans, Brits, etc) who refuse to accept the tipping culture in other countries are simply bad travelers and rude visitors who have little respect for the various cultures found around the world.  Our friends from the UK (several have actually visited us at our USA home) are all generous tippers when they come to the USA although one very good friend does complain that a restaurant check in the USA has little meaning :).   We have done so much international travel that we easily adapt to the local tipping customs and see it as part of travel.  Just like knowing when (and how) to bow in Japan or Thailand is a sign of respect, knowing when and how to tip (or not tip) is also a sign of respect.  I cannot help but think that the world would be a much better place if folks showed respect for each other's culture.

 

Hank

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

Some of the comments in this thread have me scratching my head.   The following are from a popular travel guide for Europe, which for the sake of this discussion can we say includes Britain (with apologies to those who disagree).    

 

Is this information accurate?   And, when a service charge is added to a restaurant tab, I seem to recall that is over and above what is shown on the menu.  But my memory could be faulty.   

 

"Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5–10 percent is normal. In most places, 10 percent is a big tip."

 

"At hotels with porters, pay the porter a euro for each bag they carry."

As a Brit, when eating in a  UK restaurant, I woukd normally tip around 10%, assuming the service was up to scratch. In a pub, I would perhaps leave £2 or £3, but normally nothing.

In mainland Europe I would tip very little, and from my time living in Spain,  my approach mirrors that of the locals. You would never see a Spaniard leave a 5% tip !

[CPT Trips]

8 hours ago, KBs mum said:

I'm thinking LGW is taking a tipping discussion as an attack on the US, and is unable to comprehend that we are using US tipping culture as examples, not talking about it, if we are it's only about how it has spread to different countries. 

 

By the way, as someone mentioned the Queen, she doesn't tip, she famously doesn't carry money. There isn't a dress code for meeting her, any dress code is that of the event or establishment. Not intending to derail the discussion, just thought I'd add a factoid. 

 

Facts? You and the other English speaker would be well served by recognizing  New Englanders are unlike any other people in America, and thus, unlike any other people on Earth. Also, likely due to the plethora of higher education institutions in that little corner of the world, they never met an argument that they voluntarily stop continuing. 
 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

As a Brit, when eating in a  UK restaurant, I woukd normally tip around 10%, assuming the service was up to scratch. In a pub, I would perhaps leave £2 or £3, but normally nothing.

In mainland Europe I would tip very little, and from my time living in Spain,  my approach mirrors that of the locals. You would never see a Spaniard leave a 5% tip !

 

Thanks.  Two folk from the UK responded, I think.   I've noticed the svc charge on tabs in UK restnts.  I have not left an additional tip as I didn't think it was custom.  I might rethink that if we get the opportunity to visit again.      

 

The tipping quotes I provided are from Steves and also repeated by Frommer's.   

[LGW59]

9 hours ago, KBs mum said:

I'm thinking LGW is taking a tipping discussion as an attack on the US, and is unable to comprehend that we are using US tipping culture as examples, not talking about it, if we are it's only about how it has spread to different countries. 

 

By the way, as someone mentioned the Queen, she doesn't tip, she famously doesn't carry money. There isn't a dress code for meeting her, any dress code is that of the event or establishment. Not intending to derail the discussion, just thought I'd add a factoid. 

 

I'm thinking LGW is taking a tipping discussion as an attack on the US, and is unable to comprehend that we are using US tipping culture as examples,  LOL not at all.  I totally get people outside US don't follow the tipping customs the way we do, not a problem.  All that said, and as I have said, the grats are included for a reason, no matter where one is from and no matter the custom in their country.  The folks that cruise know this, no matter where from, the ones who remove them are cheap, plain and simple and punishing the wrong people.  Tip extra, total self discretion as it should be.  Now as to your Queen, no matter who was hosting the event, I'd not need to be told to be respectful and dress appropriately, common sense is my guide.  That said, I've zero desire to meet her.  Though I did get up close and personal to her and the hubby when she was in Boston in 1976 for our bi-centennial, as a teen that was exciting.    

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I'm thinking LGW is taking a tipping discussion as an attack on the US, and is unable to comprehend that we are using US tipping culture as examples,  LOL not at all.  I totally get people outside US don't follow the tipping customs the way we do, not a problem.  All that said, and as I have said, the grats are included for a reason, no matter where one is from and no matter the custom in their country.  The folks that cruise know this, no matter where from, the ones who remove them are cheap, plain and simple and punishing the wrong people.  Tip extra, total self discretion as it should be.  Now as to your Queen, no matter who was hosting the event, I'd not need to be told to be respectful and dress appropriately, common sense is my guide.  That said, I've zero desire to meet her.  Though I did get up close and personal to her and the hubby when she was in Boston in 1976 for our bi-centennial, as a teen that was exciting.    

 

But, did you give her a "tip" about looking left before crossing! 😀  

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

But, did you give her a "tip" about looking left before crossing! 😀  

Well since they closed the street behind city hall there was no need, and as the hubby was walking 6 paces behind her, no doubt he was watching out for her.

[ldubs]

9 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

I can only answer for myself but as I stated before I do tip if someone goes above and beyond,  say a concierge, waitress etc but it is done discretely at the end of service with cash.  I also give feedback to the restaurant owner or hotel manager and mention their name and good service. 

 

I am comfortable that people are not requiring my tips to survive if they just are capable of doing what needs to be done not having to outperform all the time. Which is what I thought the original idea for giving a tip was?

 

 

 

Thanks. I was thinking beyond tipping.  Regardless of the pay system, what motivation is there  to do better than the minimum standard?  I suspect that the comment was related to tipping and there is recognition beyond a pat on the back for those who routinely exceed the standard.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by ldubs

[Peter Lanky]

28 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks.  Two folk from the UK responded, I think.   I've noticed the svc charge on tabs in UK restnts.  I have not left an additional tip as I didn't think it was custom.  I might rethink that if we get the opportunity to visit again.      

 

The tipping quotes I provided are from Steves and also repeated by Frommer's.   

Just remember that in the UK, the prices have not been lowered to allow the service charge to bring it back to it's correct price, but is a bit of opportunism relying on people not removing it. It tends to be the more expensive places that do this. They don't pay their staff any more than the cheaper places either, with minimum wage being a target nowadays rather than a safety net. If everyone just removed it, this non traditional practice would maybe come to an end.

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks.  Two folk from the UK responded, I think.   I've noticed the svc charge on tabs in UK restnts.  I have not left an additional tip as I didn't think it was custom.  I might rethink that if we get the opportunity to visit again.      

 

The tipping quotes I provided are from Steves and also repeated by Frommer's.   

Basically, it is not necessary to tip, the service charge is not a tip. If you do want to tip nobody will be upset. If you don't tip nobody will care. 

I don't know either of the publications you mention, I'm just going off the extract. 

[KBs mum]

59 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

All that said, and as I have said, the grats are included for a reason, no matter where one is from and no matter the custom in their country.  The folks that cruise know this, no matter where from, the ones who remove them are cheap, plain and simple and punishing the wrong people.  Tip extra, total self discretion as it should be. 

Not all cruise lines follow the US tipping model. Those that cater for a predominantly non US customer base don't. Even some of those that do have mostly US  customers include all expected staff/crew payments in the quoted ticket price, and say no tips necessary for non US passengers. 

 

Wasn't having a go at anyone re. meeting our Liz, just mentioned it as an interesting aside. 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Not all cruise lines follow the US tipping model. Those that cater for a predominantly non US customer base don't. Even some of those that do have mostly US  customers include all expected staff/crew payments in the quoted ticket price, and say no tips necessary for non US passengers. 

 

Wasn't having a go at anyone re. meeting our Liz, just mentioned it as an interesting aside. 

Those of us that have seen her up close and in person, call her Lilibet 🙂 

[KBs mum]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

Those of us that have seen her up close and in person, call her Lilibet 🙂 

We do not, that would be common. We call her 'Your Majesty' then 'Ma'am' (pronounced to rhyme with ham, she dislikes the version that sounds like bleating sheep) Charles is 'Your Highness' then 'Sir' 🙂

 

Their family, friends and military colleagues use their given names. 

 

 

[slidergirl]

18 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Sorry to disagree with you, but in my experience restaurant waiters in the US are significantly better informed, more interested in providing good service, and generally more competent than those in continental Europe -- and far more so than what is experienced in the UK.

 

Yes, I could "complain to the establishment" -- but why not cut out the middleman by reducing the compensation for service found to be unsatisfactory?  

At least in the US,  servers I know are expected to share their table tips with the bus staff.  If you reduce the tip, you reduce the amount your busser receives, too.   Some do not know this.  

[Peter Lanky]

6 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

We do not, that would be common. We call her 'Your Majesty' then 'Ma'am' (pronounced to rhyme with ham, she dislikes the version that sounds like bleating sheep) Charles is 'Your Highness' then 'Sir' 🙂

 

Their family, friends and military colleagues use their given names. 

 

 

Personally in private conversation with friends I refer to them as Betty, Big Ears, Baldy Bill and Hewitt's Lad.