Tipping now more important than ever

[KBs mum]

34 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Although many countries have a no tipping culture, I think you will find tips being asked for on shore excursions almost everywhere you go.

We've not been asked for tips anywhere except the US. 

[ilikeanswers]

41 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Although many countries have a no tipping culture, I think you will find tips being asked for on shore excursions almost everywhere you go.

 

I have always followed the country culture regardless of by cruise or land trip. If tipping tour guides is not the norm in said destination then I just don't tip. Like I have said before I try not to rock the boat for locals. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, KBs mum said:

We've not been asked for tips anywhere except the US. 

I find that surprising. Where else have you been other than the US?

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, KBs mum said:

We've not been asked for tips anywhere except the US. 

We have been asked for such tips in Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Morocco, Portugal, Canada, AND IN THE UK. I cannot speak on this topic as it applies to the US as we always “self tour” here.

[iancal]

The bottom line IMHO is that cruise lines have two objectives.

 

To pay as little as possible for service employee labor.

 

To keep price points as low as possible.    This includes passing on part of the cost of the service employee wage cost to the customer as an add on gratuity cost to the base advertised fare.

 

Lets face it.  If service workers on cruise ships were paid to the standards of North America or Europe, and enjoyed the same legislated labor standards and protections, etc, cruise fares would be much, much higher than they are today.

Edited March 4, 2022 by iancal

[KBs mum]

32 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I find that surprising. Where else have you been other than the US?

The last count was 27 countries, most several times over the years

[KBs mum]

12 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

We have been asked IN THE UK. 

Were you asked specifically for tips or for a service charge? If tips where did the request come from? 

[navybankerteacher]

13 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

Were you asked specifically for tips or for a service charge? If tips where did the request come from? 

Specifically: for a gratuity for the driver of the bus, the request made by the driver.

[Peter Lanky]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Specifically: for a gratuity for the driver of the bus, the request made by the driver.

He had no right. It's been a tradition to have a whip round for a coach driver after a trip, but we're talking small change here. Coach drivers are adequately paid, but like so many people, greed takes over.

[navybankerteacher]

22 minutes ago, iancal said:

…

Lets face it.  If service workers on cruise ships were paid to the standards of North America or Europe, and enjoyed the same legislated labor standards and protections, etc, cruise fares would be much, much higher than they are today.

And a substantial number of the posters here would find the fares to be beyond the limits of their discretionary spending budgets (the way they now see “luxury” cruise lines as being “overpriced”).

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

He had no right. It's been a tradition to have a whip round for a coach driver after a trip, but we're talking small change here. Coach drivers are adequately paid, but like so many people, greed takes over.

 Isn’t a tip a tip - whether a few pence or a couple of pounds?  And, as a matter of fact, it has also “…been a tradition…” on cruise ships to tip service personal.

 

I suppose such a “tradition” is only offensive in the eyes of selective beholders.

Edited March 4, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[KBs mum]

17 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Specifically: for a gratuity for the driver of the bus, the request made by the driver.

Should have told him to go whistle, he was trying it on, it's not unusual for drivers to be tipped by means of a whip round, but this is voluntary and instigated by the passengers, not the driver. I suspect you got a chancer who heard your accent, bit of a shitty thing for him to do🤨

[KBs mum]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Isn’t a tip a tip - whether a few pence or a couple of pounds?  And, as a matter of fact, it has also “…been a tradition…” on cruise ships to tip service personal.

 

I suppose such a “tradition” is only offensive in the eyes of selective beholders.

The difference is 'asked for' by standing there with a hand out or a suggested daily amount, or not asked for and purely a token of thanks, in the same way you might thank someone by buying them a drink. 

The second happens in most countries from time to time but is not asked for, and does not form a part of any expected income. 

 

[KBs mum]

27 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

And a substantial number of the posters here would find the fares to be beyond the limits of their discretionary spending budgets (the way they now see “luxury” cruise lines as being “overpriced”).

The luxury lines aren't that much more than an equivilent hotel based holiday, given what is included. 

It's aggravating difficult to find out what crew wages (with and without tips) are for hotel staff on the various lines, two retired cruise ship crew (operations) didn't know. 

The nationality demographics of crew tend to be similar between hotel and ship, and often include Europeans and Asians, but hotel are often partially tipped, ship are always non tipped. 

[Peter Lanky]

42 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Isn’t a tip a tip - whether a few pence or a couple of pounds?  And, as a matter of fact, it has also “…been a tradition…” on cruise ships to tip service personal.

 

I suppose such a “tradition” is only offensive in the eyes of selective beholders.

FFS. You accuse me of never giving up. There's room for both of us to have an opinion. This isn't a court case where the barrister has to discredit the witness because their case needs a boost.

[Peter Lanky]

7 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

The luxury lines aren't that much more than an equivilent hotel based holiday, given what is included. 

It's aggravating difficult to find out what crew wages (with and without tips) are for hotel staff on the various lines, two retired cruise ship crew (operations) didn't know. 

The nationality demographics of crew tend to be similar between hotel and ship, and often include Europeans and Asians, but hotel are often partially tipped, ship are always non tipped. 

Absolutely right. In fact I reckon they are not much more than a mainstream cruise. My two scheduled future cruises (I will break my duck eventually) are both on the same luxury line. When I added all the extras on a typical mainstream cruise and compared it with a luxury one, the difference in the quality (that I hope for) should more than offset the total cost difference.

 

With Drinks @ £100/day, Gratuities @ £20/day, wi-fi @ God knows what (OK, I'm never going to actually buy this) and basic excursions @ minimum of £100 per couple especially if compulsory due to covid, the add-ons are phenomenal. I'm sure there are others I've never even thought of. I wouldn't surprise me if further gratuities are expected on the drinks package and excursions.

 

I too have been totally lacking in success  in finding meaningful salary data.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, KBs mum said:

The last count was 27 countries, most several times over the years

And nowhere other than the USA was a tip asked for???

 

See for example post #809. And I could name other countries also.

[KBs mum]

13 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And nowhere other than the USA was a tip asked for???

 

See for example post #809. And I could name other countries also.

Yup, but as we don't have US accents people are less likely to ask. We do tip in situations where the locals would, but only in the US have we actually been asked for tips. 

I think the disparity is caused by the default setting of a US person being to tip, and of a UK person being not to tip, a try on is less likely to work on us, so they don't bother. 

[iancal]

We do not need to know what service workers are paid, on land or on sea, in order to tip. Either monthly or hourly.

 

When we cruise, when we go to Cuba, Mexico, US, UK, Italy, Greece, Thailand, Vietnam, Australia etc we do not inquire about the wages of service folks.  

 

We follow the norms in the country where we happen to be traveling.

[Peter Lanky]

10 minutes ago, iancal said:

We do not need to know what service workers are paid, on land or on sea, in order to tip. Either monthly or hourly.

 

When we cruise, when we go to Cuba, Mexico, US, UK, Italy, Greece, Thailand, Vietnam, Australia etc we do not inquire about the wages of service folks.  

 

We follow the norms in the country where we happen to be traveling.

I agree, but throughout this thread, pressure has been applied to non tippers as to the 'damage' they are allegedly doing to the poor folk doing the jobs.

 

Other than the US, I don't think there is any agreement on what the norms are. They seem to depend on the mindset of the individuals. In my personal view up until the dawn of large scale tourism it was not normal in most places but has been introduced rather like a non native species spreading uncontrolled.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, KBs mum said:

Yup, but as we don't have US accents people are less likely to ask. We do tip in situations where the locals would, but only in the US have we actually been asked for tips. 

I think the disparity is caused by the default setting of a US person being to tip, and of a UK person being not to tip, a try on is less likely to work on us, so they don't bother. 

I don't think you find many locals on excursions, especially those sponsored by the cruise line.

[KBs mum]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I don't think you find many locals on excursions, especially those sponsored by the cruise line.

Locals tip, or not in various scenarios, locals will know what us expected even if as supplier rather than customer. We simply find out what the locals would do, or expect, and act accordingly. If all else fails we ask a few people when we get there. 

We do this alongside research into cultural do and don'ts and learning a few key words and phrases in the relevant language. 

[iancal]

We are not in the least bit bothered about whether other people tip or indeed how much, how often, or where they tip.  It is of no interest us.

 

Nor could we care less about what someone else thinks about whether we tip, how much, or how often.   Or indeed whether someone is of the opinion that tipping is even more important than ever.  Why on earth would we care??   

 

It is certainly not something that keeps either of us awake at night.

Edited March 4, 2022 by iancal

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

 

That would be common amongst the American passengers😉. I once heard an interview with a P&O wait staff who said as a joke "it is like Americans are cursed with money and are desperate to get rid of it" 😂

 

Yes, If I was advised that tipping was common in those circumstances I would likely tip.  Why wouldn't I.  In this case the advice came from a British travel blogger.   Another case of bad info I'm sure.  

 

 

13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I will say from my point of view I don't particularly like the whole aspect of shaming people into paying it. They present DSC as voluntary but there is this whole social stigma around removing it. Playing into people's sense of shame seems like a very negative and kind of coercive way to get people to pay something. If it is mandatory it at least makes it a mindless payment like all the other fees bundled into the price. It would eliminate the negative fear of social shaming attached to it. 

 

You get good service and are well taken care of.  I think we can agree that would be the case on the majority of cruises.  Why would anyone want to withhold the gratuity?  Seems the only people who might feel coerced or shamed are those who are withholding the gratuity for no good reason.  Maybe their bar bills were much higher than expected or maybe they just don't want to part with the money.  Maybe they never intended to give the gratuity.  IDK.  If poor service is received, it should be communicated.  A gratuity can certainly be adjusted and even withheld if the problem is serious enough.   I'm sorry but I don't buy the shame/coercion argument.  if it is too complicated, just do the pre-pay or auto gratuity, or whatever it is called  and be done with it.  

[navybankerteacher]

20 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

...  I'm sorry but I don't buy the shame/coercion argument.  if it is too complicated, just do the pre-pay or auto gratuity, or whatever it is called  and be done with it.  

When you ask people to do something which is not common in their environment -  they will come up with a lot of arguments why they should not.  That old "when in Rome" axiom is not well understood.

Edited March 5, 2022 by navybankerteacher