Escape damaged, cruise cancelled, passengers being flown home

[Flipchild32]

1 minute ago, Homosassa said:

No.

 

Thank you. Like I said I do no travel internationally but one time so I wasn't sure. 

[njhorseman]

45 minutes ago, Flipchild32 said:

I was reading that they are working on a charter flight. Wouldn't that mean it would be okay to not have a passport. Since they could in theory go straight from the boat and be shuttled to the plane (airport) and not technically be in the country? Sorry not an experienced international traveler.

You need a passport for an international airline flight regardless of whether it's a scheduled flight or a charter.

What has happened in the past is that the State Department will issue a letter to those without passports granting one time permission to fly home . The cruise line will work with the State Department and DHS to identify the passengers in need of the letter.

[vicnsue]

Any information about how serious the damage was and the time required for the repair? 

[jcollin]

26 minutes ago, Flipchild32 said:

Morale is currently high according to DisneyDude. Still having parties, etc.

 

Update: Morale on the ship is high. Everyone that is out at the bars and restaurants are having a good time. Making the most of our time left here. Haven’t heard many negative comments. 

WOW!

[GonzoWCS]

Ohh my.  Safe travels back home to folks.

 

Cheers

[Flipchild32]

5 minutes ago, vicnsue said:

Any information about how serious the damage was and the time required for the repair? 

 No one has said anything about anything like that. It would appear that they had more damage to the hull then they thought would happen. I am sure the Costa Concordia also plays a part into that. So I am assuming they cancelled it out of caution. 

https://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-forced-to-cancel-sailing-mid-cruise-after-ship-runs-aground/

[don't-use-real-name]

Notes on the margin - - -

Probably will ferry the Escape to Freeport for Dry-dock repairs as necessary ?

Fortunately this is not the Costa Concordia with its hull ripped open like a bad can opener.

I would expect that checking for damage to the bow thrusters ?  

[njhorseman]

19 minutes ago, Flipchild32 said:

 No one has said anything about anything like that. It would appear that they had more damage to the hull then they thought would happen. I am sure the Costa Concordia also plays a part into that. So I am assuming they cancelled it out of caution. 

https://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-forced-to-cancel-sailing-mid-cruise-after-ship-runs-aground/

It's not just done out of caution. An inspection is required . If damage had been found to be insignificant the cruise would have resumed. Apparently the initial inspection disclosed damage that was beyond the limits that would allow the ship to resume safe operation until repairs could be made at a more convenient time so the ship won't be able to carry passengers until those repairs are made. It may not take long to repair the damage but at least the remainder of this cruise had to be cancelled and at least one upcoming cruise.

Edited March 16, 2022 by njhorseman

[shof515]

Another thing to consider is the ship might need to be taken to a dry dock place to do the repairs. this will require to take the ship out of service for about a week or two. Nearest dry dock is in Freeport

 

depending on the repairs, fixing it underwater might be impossible 

[tunaman2011]

Greetings

 

Another fly in the charter flight ointment is the requirement for all air passengers from international destinations to have a negative COVID test no more than 1 day before departure.  Sounds like this grounding will present major headaches for the passengers.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, Flipchild32 said:

I am sure the Costa Concordia also plays a part into that.

Um, no. Not even remotely similar. 

[Turtles06]

2 hours ago, Flipchild32 said:

Since they could in theory go straight from the boat and be shuttled to the plane (airport) and not technically be in the country? Sorry not an experienced international traveler.

No technicalities here. They are *actually* in that other country right now. 

[Flipchild32]

20 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

No technicalities here. They are *actually* in that other country right now. 

So sorry... I got it now.. that was why I mentioned I had not traveled internationally.... Goodness now I am just feeling attacked about both document needs and everything.... 

26 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

Um, no. Not even remotely similar. 

 

Yes not in the types they ran into. But also geez... 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

It's not just done out of caution. An inspection is required . If damage had been found to be insignificant the cruise would have resumed. Apparently the initial inspection disclosed damage that was beyond the limits that would allow the ship to resume safe operation until repairs could be made at a more convenient time so the ship won't be able to carry passengers until those repairs are made. It may not take long to repair the damage but at least the remainder of this cruise had to be cancelled and at least one upcoming cruise.

 

1 hour ago, shof515 said:

Another thing to consider is the ship might need to be taken to a dry dock place to do the repairs. this will require to take the ship out of service for about a week or two. Nearest dry dock is in Freeport

 

depending on the repairs, fixing it underwater might be impossible 

Unless there is a very significant, deep, and sharp crease in the hull plating, in most cases this is surveyed, and written as a "condition of class" with repairs to be completed at the ship's next scheduled drydocking.  Many ships have dents and creases in the hull, that are not considered to be serious enough to affect the structural integrity of the hull, so are allowed to be left in place for the life of the ship.  What is likely, since I don't think they were in rocky bottom, is that the internal framing that gives the hull its strength and shape is bent in way of a dent in the hull plating.  In this case, it may only require testing to see if the welds are cracked, and if not then the damage is again left in place until the next drydock.  If the damage to the framing is severe enough to require renewal, the typical repair is to cut out the distorted section, and make a new section that conforms to the "new" shape of the hull in way of the dent.  Most of this can be accomplished without drydocking. 

 

I'm not familiar with the waters around the DR, or this port in particular, so it may be that visibility is too poor to determine anything from a diver inspection, and they will take it somewhere where divers can get good video footage of the area in question, for the surveyor to review.

 

Class surveys after groundings are required, and have been required long before the Concordia, that has nothing to do with this.  Ships run aground all the time, are inspected, and return to service.  I remember a few years back, when I was on a ship going up the Amazon, and we grounded for an hour or so.  Once we got to an area where divers had visibility, the surveyor came onboard, and while conversing, he mentioned that there were 6 ships currently grounded in the river, and one had been there for a couple months.

Edited March 16, 2022 by chengkp75

[GonzoWCS]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Unless there is a very significant, deep, and sharp crease in the hull plating, in most cases this is surveyed, and written as a "condition of class" with repairs to be completed at the ship's next scheduled drydocking.  Many ships have dents and creases in the hull, that are not considered to be serious enough to affect the structural integrity of the hull, so are allowed to be left in place for the life of the ship.  What is likely, since I don't think they were in rocky bottom, is that the internal framing that gives the hull its strength and shape is bent in way of a dent in the hull plating.  In this case, it may only require testing to see if the welds are cracked, and if not then the damage is again left in place until the next drydock.  If the damage to the framing is severe enough to require renewal, the typical repair is to cut out the distorted section, and make a new section that conforms to the "new" shape of the hull in way of the dent.  Most of this can be accomplished without drydocking. 

 

I'm not familiar with the waters around the DR, or this port in particular, so it may be that visibility is too poor to determine anything from a diver inspection, and they will take it somewhere where divers can get good video footage of the area in question, for the surveyor to review.

 

Class surveys after groundings are required, and have been required long before the Concordia, that has nothing to do with this.  Ships run aground all the time, are inspected, and return to service.  I remember a few years back, when I was on a ship going up the Amazon, and we grounded for an hour or so.  Once we got to an area where divers had visibility, the surveyor came onboard, and while conversing, he mentioned that there were 6 ships currently grounded in the river, and one had been there for a couple months.

There he be! 

 

Salute!

[hallux]

1 hour ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Probably will ferry the Escape to Freeport for Dry-dock repairs as necessary ?

Does Freeport currently have a dry dock capable of supporting the Escape?  The largest dock, which wasn't even large enough for the ship it was lifting at the time, was damaged a couple years ago when it listed with the Oasis in dock.

[Lionkingrichard]

10 hours ago, wacruiselover said:

Didn't this same Captain have a similar problem years ago on a smaller vessel?

 

 

Be nice! He got them home safely! It just took a little longer and they had great tans!

[Turtles06]

48 minutes ago, Flipchild32 said:

So sorry... I got it now.. that was why I mentioned I had not traveled internationally.... Goodness now I am just feeling attacked about both document needs and everything....

 

No one is attacking you, just providing the correct information.  We all appreciate your stated lack of international travel experience. 

[vicnsue]

chengkp75

I have read a number of your post and I would like to thank you.

The information that you share is greatly appreciated.

Edited March 16, 2022 by vicnsue

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, hallux said:

Does Freeport currently have a dry dock capable of supporting the Escape?  The largest dock, which wasn't even large enough for the ship it was lifting at the time, was damaged a couple years ago when it listed with the Oasis in dock.

Dock #3 was damaged lifting the Oasis of the Seas, in a "partial lift" operation they had done a couple of times before.  I don't believe that dock #3 has been repaired yet, and dock #2 is likely marginal for the Escape.  However, as I mentioned, it is likely that it is not necessary to repair the ship in a dry dock, merely at a place where the repairs can be completed (wet berth in the shipyard).  

 

As a side note, Grand Bahamas Shipyard is taking delivery later this year of two additional drydocks, one of which will be capable of lifting the largest cruise ships currently out there.

[shof515]

18 minutes ago, hallux said:

Does Freeport currently have a dry dock capable of supporting the Escape?  The largest dock, which wasn't even large enough for the ship it was lifting at the time, was damaged a couple years ago when it listed with the Oasis in dock.

When the Carnival Vista needed repairs at Freeports, they used a floating drydock like one of those heavy lift ships that is commonly used for oil rigs. i wonder if that has a capable for the Escape and the bigger Oasis class ships 

[mk-ultra]

39 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Unless there is a very significant, deep, and sharp crease in the hull plating, in most cases this is surveyed, and written as a "condition of class" with repairs to be completed at the ship's next scheduled drydocking.  Many ships have dents and creases in the hull, that are not considered to be serious enough to affect the structural integrity of the hull, so are allowed to be left in place for the life of the ship.  What is likely, since I don't think they were in rocky bottom, is that the internal framing that gives the hull its strength and shape is bent in way of a dent in the hull plating.  In this case, it may only require testing to see if the welds are cracked, and if not then the damage is again left in place until the next drydock.  If the damage to the framing is severe enough to require renewal, the typical repair is to cut out the distorted section, and make a new section that conforms to the "new" shape of the hull in way of the dent.  Most of this can be accomplished without drydocking. 

 

I'm not familiar with the waters around the DR, or this port in particular, so it may be that visibility is too poor to determine anything from a diver inspection, and they will take it somewhere where divers can get good video footage of the area in question, for the surveyor to review.

 

Class surveys after groundings are required, and have been required long before the Concordia, that has nothing to do with this.  Ships run aground all the time, are inspected, and return to service.  I remember a few years back, when I was on a ship going up the Amazon, and we grounded for an hour or so.  Once we got to an area where divers had visibility, the surveyor came onboard, and while conversing, he mentioned that there were 6 ships currently grounded in the river, and one had been there for a couple months.

 

Chengkp75: wondering if you know the answer to this one.

 

All aircraft, down to the smallest old C150 have a published "maximum crosswind component" (and associated graph/table to help compute it based on wind speed and direction in the POH).  Outside of the max, it's not considered safe to try to takeoff/land.

 

Do ships not have something similar that ensure navigability in high winds where there are potential obstructions?

Edited March 16, 2022 by mk-ultra

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, shof515 said:

When the Carnival Vista needed repairs at Freeports, they used a floating drydock like one of those heavy lift ships that is commonly used for oil rigs. i wonder if that has a capable for the Escape and the bigger Oasis class ships 

Yes, the BOKA Vanguard, the heavy lift ship (not a drydock) that was used for Vista could lift the Escape, but I'd have to check specifications to see if Oasis class would fit.  The problem is, is Vanguard being used at the moment, and where is it?  Time to get to the Escape would be the critical factor.

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, mk-ultra said:

 

Chengkp75: wondering if you know the answer to this one.

 

All aircraft, down to the smallest old C150 have a published "maximum crosswind component" (and associated graph/table to help compute it based on wind speed and direction in the POH).  Outside of the max, it's not considered safe to try to takeoff/land.

 

Do ships not have something similar that ensure navigability in high winds where there are potential obstructions?

Short answer, no.  While an airplane is affected by only one fluid, air, the ship is affected by two fluids, and water presents a greater resistance to the ship than air, so current is more of a factor than wind, though wind is significant.  I don't believe that the investigation will reveal that wind was the major causative factor, I still believe it was canal effect, along with the wind, which may have been acceptable, but which gusted at the wrong time, adding to the canal effect.  Especially with a ship that has 40Mw of "steerable" power, and 10Mw of bow thrusters, a wind gust should not have caused this.

 

Now, while saying that there is no set regulation on wind speed, some ports will set wind limits on some ships, and Captains and pilots gain experience in how their ships react to environmental factors, and often will delay "restricted movements" (harbor maneuvering) if they don't feel the conditions are safe.

 

As an example, just a few days ago, the Getaway was subjected to 75 knot winds, equal to a force of 1900 tons against the side of the ship, and she only listed over 5-10*, but was able to maintain course even without bow thrusters in use.  Fair enough, she likely made some leeway, but these were far stronger winds than I expect Escape encountered.

Edited March 16, 2022 by chengkp75

[vacation44]

29 minutes ago, vicnsue said:

chengkp75

I have read a number of your post and I would like to thank you.

The information that you share is greatly appreciated.

Agreed.

 

Thank you chengkp75.