Escape repairs

[AK Dreaming]

I see the Escape is in port.  Is there anywhere to check to see what her status is?  I was scheduled on the 19th but was canceled.  Now I'm booked on the 26th and very concerned that we will get canceled again.  I am hoping for any encouraging information.  

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, AK Dreaming said:

I see the Escape is in port.  Is there anywhere to check to see what her status is?  I was scheduled on the 19th but was canceled.  Now I'm booked on the 26th and very concerned that we will get canceled again.  I am hoping for any encouraging information.  

There's an entire lengthy thread that is devoted to Escape's issues, including most recently  a discussion of repairs and whether any more cruises will have to be cancelled:

"Escape damaged, cruise cancelled, passengers being flown home"

[tallnthensome]

I would Google what you're looking for too and cruise news sites. Anything anyone here would know would probably be on Google. As mentioned there is already a thread on this .

Edited March 21, 2022 by tallnthensome

[dlm0920]

I’m disappointed and frustrated with the lack of communication by NCL. Even if they don’t have all the answers right now, they could let us know when to expect another update and share what they do know. Thousands of families have their hard-earned vacation time and money wrapped up in this cruise over the next few weeks, and they haven’t even bothered to address the uncertainty. Folks are left to search the internet to find information, make conclusions based on cruise location, etc. which leads to the spread of disinformation and rumors. A little communication from NCL would go a long way, and they've been completely silent. 

[AK Dreaming]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

I would Google what you're looking for too and cruise news sites. Anything anyone here would know would probably be on Google. As mentioned there is already a thread on this .

I have googled everything I could think of to google.  I was just hoping someone had some additional information and places to look I had not considered.  

[Earthworm Jim]

48 minutes ago, dlm0920 said:

I’m disappointed and frustrated with the lack of communication by NCL. Even if they don’t have all the answers right now, they could let us know when to expect another update and share what they do know.

 

NCL is in somewhat of a tough spot now though. Their official position on the matter is March 19th was canceled, but March 26th is happening. So what else can they say, "We are still sailing on March 26th as has been the plan all along"?

 

If there is any doubt that the sailing will go, they probably don't want to admit it any sooner than they have to so as not to give them any bad publicity until they know for certain it won't go.

[BirdTravels]

55 minutes ago, dlm0920 said:

I’m disappointed and frustrated with the lack of communication by NCL. Even if they don’t have all the answers right now, they could let us know when to expect another update and share what they do know. Thousands of families have their hard-earned vacation time and money wrapped up in this cruise over the next few weeks, and they haven’t even bothered to address the uncertainty. Folks are left to search the internet to find information, make conclusions based on cruise location, etc. which leads to the spread of disinformation and rumors. A little communication from NCL would go a long way, and they've been completely silent. 

Seriously, What communication do you want? If NCL would send out an email right now, what should it say? “The cruise is operating”. It will be that state until you get the robocall, text message, and email saying it is not. 
 

As much as you, the cruise line wants the cruise to operate. And they won’t pull the plug until it is absolutely necessary. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by BirdTravels

[dlm0920]

41 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Seriously, What communication do you want? If NCL would send out an email right now, what should it say? “The cruise is operating”. It will be that state until you get the robocall, text message, and email saying it is not. 
 

As much as you, the cruise line wants the cruise to operate. And they won’t pull the plug until it is absolutely necessary. 

I would like to know when they expect to have an update. It’s been over a week and they should have a timeline at this point, or know when they will have a timeline. If they still don’t know, tell us that. I understand they are in a difficult position, and this was obviously not what NCL wants, but the customers also deserve transparency. 

[dlm0920]

1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

Seriously, What communication do you want? If NCL would send out an email right now, what should it say? “The cruise is operating”. It will be that state until you get the robocall, text message, and email saying it is not. 
 

As much as you, the cruise line wants the cruise to operate. And they won’t pull the plug until it is absolutely necessary. 

Also, would like to add that I hope they officially communicate once the sailings are officially “on” and repairs have been satisfied. Understand it’s too early for that yet so an email with expected timeline will suffice. But Until then, it feels like as you stated, the cruise is “on” until it’s not. I feel like I’m one email refresh away from a cancelled vacation. Without a formal communication, there’s uncertainty until boarding time, which is ridiculous. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by dlm0920

[zeroed]

NCL knows the extent of the damage by now  but doesn’t want to say for some reason. The question is why. Are they afraid people will cancel if they find out a certain type of damage has occurred but hasn’t been fully repaired?  
Would you cancel if they announced the hull is comprised but they assure you it’s safe enough to continue? (I don’t know if it is, it’s just a hypothetical.) My wife has expressed her opinion on that scenario and I’m inclined to agree. 
 

If NCL is committed to continuing the March 26 and future sailings they need to say what was damaged and what measures were taken to repair it so we can judge if we feel comfortable to travel or not. There is no need for secrecy. 

[resetjet]

The boat is not leaving until safe to do so.  I feel your cruise will happen,  but i would be prepared to spend a night or two in port.  Nobody ever knows how longs these things will take.  So what do you want them to say?  They obviously expect to go in some capacity.  Either way its catch 22 for

them.

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, dlm0920 said:

Also, would like to add that I hope they officially communicate once the sailings are officially “on” and repairs have been satisfied. Understand it’s too early for that yet so an email with expected timeline will suffice. But Until then, it feels like as you stated, the cruise is “on” until it’s not. I feel like I’m one email refresh away from a cancelled vacation. Without a formal communication, there’s uncertainty until boarding time, which is ridiculous. 

So, there will be no email "it's on". There is uncertainty until the day you board and nothing is going to change that. The cruise line will do the very best to operate the cruise as schedule. That's the best you're going to get. 

 

Voluntarily cancelling a cruise a week to departure means 100% forfeiture of your fare. 

 

Let's be realistic. You booked a cruise in the middle of a pandemic. It was just a few weeks ago, that numbers were sky high. And cruise lines around the world (including NCL) suspended sailings. I think that you already had great uncertainty in your trip. 

 

The cruise is on.... until it isn't or it changes. 

[bigrednole]

Their ship, their rules. They can tell you when they want. You have a choice of canceling yourself now and living with the consequences. They can wait for you to get to the port on 3/26 and then tell you it is not sailing. It would not be the best PR, but realistically, they may not know until Thursday or Friday.

 

You have to wait for it to play out or cancel yourself. 100% choice on your side.

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, zeroed said:

Are they afraid people will cancel if they find out a certain type of damage has occurred but hasn’t been fully repaired?

Do you think it is NCL's decision alone as to whether the ship sails or not, if repairs are not completed?  Trust me, it isn't.  And, in many, many, cases, a ship carries "damage" for the rest of its service life, with no ill effects.  Do they need to hold a tutorial for lay people to understand how ship construction is affected by certain types of damage?

 

10 hours ago, zeroed said:

Would you cancel if they announced the hull is comprised but they assure you it’s safe enough to continue? (I don’t know if it is, it’s just a hypothetical.) My wife has expressed her opinion on that scenario and I’m inclined to agree. 

Do you know enough about naval architecture and ship construction to know what "hull compromised" means, and whether a marine surveyor can determine whether damage sustained "compromises" the hull's integrity, or whether it can last until next drydock, or even for the life of the ship?

 

10 hours ago, zeroed said:

If NCL is committed to continuing the March 26 and future sailings they need to say what was damaged and what measures were taken to repair it so we can judge if we feel comfortable to travel or not.

Does the airline inform you of what maintenance or repairs were done to your airplane so you can make an informed decision as to whether you are comfortable flying on that plane?

 

I always find it humorous how much "transparency" people demand from cruise lines, that they don't in any other aspect of life.

[zeroed]

I’m certainly not a marine surveyor. I do know a few things about corporations providing no or only half @$$ repairs to keep their money maker going which led to loss of life. We don’t want to be one of those news blurbs. 

NCL could alleviate any of the uncertainty surrounding the next few cruises by simply saying what was damaged and that it was adequately repaired. That’s not unreasonable and would go a long way to instill trust in their product. 

Aircraft apples to ship oranges. Aircraft maintenance and safety standards are tracked differently than cruise ships. Even small “crashes” are logged and can be researched through the NTSB and FAA.  Is there an inspection and certification standard for cruise ships that must be adhered to before carrying passengers again AFTER an accident?
All the USCG will do is have a 20 year old play peekaboo with documentation and bless it. 

I watched a patch be shoddily welded over a punctured hull just above the waterline of a Carnival ship in Cozumel. They continued on their itinerary like normal. Other cruises have had accidents but were able to continue on as well. The Escape couldn’t for some reason. Asking why is justified. 
 

The cruise lines go so far to avoid US laws, whether it’s employment, safety or taxes that they register the ships in foreign countries who provide little to no oversight. That’s a clue that they may be dodgy with other things as well. 
 

Cruising is a mitigated risk some are willing to take for the benefits of a great vacation. We should be able to make an informed decision as to what level of risk versus reward is acceptable. That’s all anyone asks. 
 

 

 

 

[Funky Fusion FoodsJ]

8 minutes ago, zeroed said:

I’m certainly not a marine surveyor. I do know a few things about corporations providing no or only half @$$ repairs to keep their money maker going which led to loss of life. We don’t want to be one of those news blurbs. 

NCL could alleviate any of the uncertainty surrounding the next few cruises by simply saying what was damaged and that it was adequately repaired. That’s not unreasonable and would go a long way to instill trust in their product. 

Aircraft apples to ship oranges. Aircraft maintenance and safety standards are tracked differently than cruise ships. Even small “crashes” are logged and can be researched through the NTSB and FAA.  Is there an inspection and certification standard for cruise ships that must be adhered to before carrying passengers again AFTER an accident?
All the USCG will do is have a 20 year old play peekaboo with documentation and bless it. 

I watched a patch be shoddily welded over a punctured hull just above the waterline of a Carnival ship in Cozumel. They continued on their itinerary like normal. Other cruises have had accidents but were able to continue on as well. The Escape couldn’t for some reason. Asking why is justified. 
 

The cruise lines go so far to avoid US laws, whether it’s employment, safety or taxes that they register the ships in foreign countries who provide little to no oversight. That’s a clue that they may be dodgy with other things as well. 
 

Cruising is a mitigated risk some are willing to take for the benefits of a great vacation. We should be able to make an informed decision as to what level of risk versus reward is acceptable. That’s all anyone asks. 
 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what NCL could announce that would appease everyone, so their PR team choses to remain silent, always the best tact when things are really unknown.

 

If they announce they will still sail on 3/26 and they don't, then they'll be accused of being liars or incompetent.

 

If they announce they just don't know if they'll sail 3/26, they're incompetent.

 

If they cancel the sailing because they don't know, and it turns out they could have sailed, there will be outrage from those with nonrefundable air who wanted to make the cruise.

 

Any announcement from NCL could result in additional bad PR so silence is their best alternative.

 

As far as corporations registering in foreign countries for labor/law/tax purposes being "dodgy" I think goes a bit far.  They're just maximizing profits for their investors by taking advantage of the incorporation laws available to them.  Unfortunately without them, we wouldn't have a cruise industry that we all enjoy.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, zeroed said:

I’m certainly not a marine surveyor. I do know a few things about corporations providing no or only half @$$ repairs to keep their money maker going which led to loss of life. We don’t want to be one of those news blurbs. 

So, those third party surveyors are part of the conspiracy to put an unsafe ship into operation?

 

20 minutes ago, zeroed said:

Aircraft apples to ship oranges. Aircraft maintenance and safety standards are tracked differently than cruise ships. Even small “crashes” are logged and can be researched through the NTSB and FAA.  Is there an inspection and certification standard for cruise ships that must be adhered to before carrying passengers again AFTER an accident?
All the USCG will do is have a 20 year old play peekaboo with documentation and bless it.

Whose talking about airplane crashes.  More airplanes are grounded for equipment failure than actually crash, and those equipment failures, if not found before take-off could have led to a crash.  And, that failure and repair appears in the plane's maintenance records, just like this incident will appear in Escape's records.  And, if you think this is a crash, this is more like an airplane starting its take-off routine, and a tire blowing or landing gear shock absorber failing.

 

Now, lets look at the requirements for a ship to sail.  After repairs, since the ship is in the US doing the repairs (and only because the repairs are being done there) will the USCG send an inspector down to visually inspect the damage and repairs, not just documentation.  Additionally, regardless of where the repairs are completed, it is the Bahamian Maritime Authority who has ultimate responsibility for issuing the ship's Passenger Safety Certificate, allowing the ship to sail.  The Bahamas, as the USCG does for some US flag ships, defers this inspection and decision to the classification society surveyor.  This surveyor determines what needs to be done for the repair, who is allowed to do it (welders have to have certificates of competency issued by that society), the exact procedures to be taken to accomplish the repair, and then what type of final inspection is needed, whether it is crack checking the welds, x-ray of the welds, or visual inspection, and the surveyor will be down in the tank looking at everything.  Once the surveyor is satisfied, he will re-issue the Passenger Safety Certificate for the remainder of the survey interval (which was replaced by the temporary certificate when the surveyor looked at the damage in the DR, and which was only good for a month).  Without this certificate, the USCG, nor any nation, will allow the ship to sail, let alone carry passengers.

32 minutes ago, zeroed said:

I watched a patch be shoddily welded over a punctured hull just above the waterline of a Carnival ship in Cozumel. They continued on their itinerary like normal. Other cruises have had accidents but were able to continue on as well. The Escape couldn’t for some reason. Asking why is justified. 

Glad you know enough about ship repair to know a shoddy welding job from a good one.  The surveyor thought the job was good enough to allow the vessel to proceed.  How long was the ship delayed while welding a patch?  I doubt it was arranged and carried out in the normal port stay time.  And, again, in many cases, ships are allowed to continue on with "damage" to the hull, that while visible from the outside, does nothing to compromise hull integrity or strength, and the surveyor allows the damage to be noted in the class certificates with the notation that it is allowed to remain without repair for the life of the ship.  As noted on the other thread, the survey in the DR was not completed until Friday (I looked up the date of the temporary certificate in the ship's information page on the DNV (surveyor) website), so NCL knew they would have returned late, and had to pay flight change fees for everyone, which likely would have exceeded the cost of the charter flights.  The fact that the ship sailed from the DR shows that the surveyor knew that the transit to PC was safe to accomplish, and did not issue a "repair before sailing" condition of class, but a "complete repairs within a month" condition.

 

40 minutes ago, zeroed said:

The cruise lines go so far to avoid US laws, whether it’s employment, safety or taxes that they register the ships in foreign countries who provide little to no oversight. That’s a clue that they may be dodgy with other things as well. 

Yes, the flags of convenience provide financial benefits to the ship owners.  However, the ships have to have insurance, and that insurance is a mutual insurance, meaning that a group of ship owners get together and decide to provide insurance for their collective ships.  They set premiums based on historic payments that the owners have made for repairs and lawsuits.  Then they require a classification society to underwrite the ship (certify it is safely built, and safely maintained).  The insurance "club" as it is called, has a vested interest in only having the best maintained ships in the "club", as that keeps the premiums as low as possible.  If your ships cause too many accidents, then you are thrown out of the "club", and will have to find one that charges a higher premium, and carries a higher risk that you have to pay for another ship owner's accidents.

 

45 minutes ago, zeroed said:

Cruising is a mitigated risk some are willing to take for the benefits of a great vacation. We should be able to make an informed decision as to what level of risk versus reward is acceptable. That’s all anyone asks.

Again, how is this different from an airline?  That is a mitigated risk, what do you use to make your informed decision?

[chengkp75]

25 minutes ago, Funky Fusion FoodsJ said:

Unfortunately without them, we wouldn't have a cruise industry that we all enjoy.

Yes, the only way that "zeroed" would get the desired oversight would be to have the ships US flag, and look at NCL's Hawaii operations for how much that would cost.

[chengkp75]

And, when all logical arguments fail, we fall back on the personal attack.  Typical.  Those who have read my posts over the last 8 years will know that I have severely chastised cruise lines, when the facts warrant it, but have also defended the lines when criticism is unwarranted.  I don't take sides, I present facts, which your critical thinking declares to be "word salad", but which only shows that no matter how much information NCL provided, you would be no closer to making an "informed" decision than without anything.  No, there is nothing wrong with asking questions about your safety, but why should you require one mode of transportation to provide more information than another?  Talk about critical thinking.  So, I guess that the airlines have something to hide since they don't report every repair directly to your email.   And, they take you into the even more unforgiving sky.   What about uber, buses, or trains?  Do you ask to see their maintenance or accident records?

[PTC DAWG]

You either trust NCL, or not..if you don’t, I’d stay home. 

[www3traveler]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, when all logical arguments fail, we fall back on the personal attack.  Typical.  Those who have read my posts over the last 8 years will know that I have severely chastised cruise lines, when the facts warrant it, but have also defended the lines when criticism is unwarranted.  I don't take sides, I present facts, which your critical thinking declares to be "word salad", but which only shows that no matter how much information NCL provided, you would be no closer to making an "informed" decision than without anything.  No, there is nothing wrong with asking questions about your safety, but why should you require one mode of transportation to provide more information than another?  Talk about critical thinking.  So, I guess that the airlines have something to hide since they don't report every repair directly to your email.   And, they take you into the even more unforgiving sky.   What about uber, buses, or trains?  Do you ask to see their maintenance or accident records?

Thankk You for all your wonderful information through the years that comes from your years of service within the cruise industry.

 

May you also have bright blue skies and smooth seas.

[davencl]

37 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, when all logical arguments fail, we fall back on the personal attack.  Typical.  Those who have read my posts over the last 8 years will know that I have severely chastised cruise lines, when the facts warrant it, but have also defended the lines when criticism is unwarranted.  I don't take sides, I present facts, which your critical thinking declares to be "word salad", but which only shows that no matter how much information NCL provided, you would be no closer to making an "informed" decision than without anything.  No, there is nothing wrong with asking questions about your safety, but why should you require one mode of transportation to provide more information than another?  Talk about critical thinking.  So, I guess that the airlines have something to hide since they don't report every repair directly to your email.   And, they take you into the even more unforgiving sky.   What about uber, buses, or trains?  Do you ask to see their maintenance or accident records?

Thank you so much for articulating my thoughts exactly.

[Battleship88]

well they cancelled the 26th 😞

[MamSam]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:11 PM, Battleship88 said:

well they cancelled the 26th 😞

And 4/2.