Will P&O ever replace the Oceana and Oriana.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, zap99 said:

A good deal with them in the paper today. 15 nights £4,600 each. Cheap as chips🤣

But for our forthcoming September  we paid less than £3000 each for 16 nights by booking  early.  Just throwing out random fares proves nothing.

 

[zap99]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But for our forthcoming September  we paid less than £3000 each for 16 nights by booking  early.  Just throwing out random fares proves nothing.

 

Always saying how cheap they are doesn't work. Your cruise for 2 is £6,000. In their website right now they have a 16 night cruise at £5,500 each . Your £3,000 is still getting on for double P&O. Just as Jean said. Not random Wowzz, factual.they are expensive.

Edited April 29, 2022 by zap99

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, zap99 said:

Always saying how cheap they are doesn't work. Your cruise for 2 is £6,000. In their website right now they have a 16 night cruise at £5,500 each . Your £3,000 is still getting on for double P&O. Just as Jean said. Not random Wowzz, factual.they are expensive.

If you compare the price of a balcony cabin and drinks package on Arcadia or Aurora compared to the price of a Saga cruise with 35% discount,  the price differential is not that great. 

[Selbourne]

13 hours ago, crompton21 said:

Regarding a shift to a mass market approach, would I be correct in thinking that Iona has replaced Oriana and Oceana?  (Factually speaking , as opposed to what anyone thinks of that idea).  If so, 4000 passenger capacity lost and 5000 gained, or 50000 more passengers annually assuming 50 7 day cruises.

I make that a need for an extra 0.07% of the U.K. population to cruise, not really that much of a change.  

The term mass market doesn’t just refer to the absolute number of passengers (although 50,000 more passengers wouldn’t be sniffed at), it’s a marketing and brand proposition that refers to the consumer profile of the target audience. When we first cruised with P&O 25 years ago, the majority of passengers were affluent retirees. As we know from this forum, many of the folk in that category don’t have a high on board spend, for example being happy with the MDR and getting best value out of the already included aspects of a cruise.

 

The type of customer that P&O is targeting nowadays is more likely to be families (higher cabin occupancy), those who are also more likely to avail themselves of things like drinks packages (being used to all inclusive land based holidays), a greater propensity towards ‘treats’ such as Select Dining and so on. The average on board spend from the new target customer will, in most cases, be higher than those of us who could be described as ‘traditional cruisers’. There will obviously be exceptions both ways, but in totality the average spend per passenger will rise as a result of this shift in target audience.
 

This isn’t just my reading of the situation by the way, as our resident P&O employee has said exactly the same about the change in the direction of the company towards the mass market and the reasons for it. As I’ve said many times before, whilst it may not be entirely to my liking, I can’t disagree with the approach as it makes very sound business sense and if I was in charge of P&O I would be doing exactly the same. 

[wowzz]

23 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The type of customer that P&O is targeting nowadays is more likely to be families (higher cabin occupancy), those who are also more likely to avail themselves of things like drinks packages (being used to all inclusive land based holidays), a greater propensity towards ‘treats’ such as Select Dining and so on. The average on board spend from the new target customer will, in most cases, be higher than those of us who could be described as ‘traditional cruisers’.

From memory, in the pre-covid days, around 30% of Carnival profit came from discretionary expenditure, which is why, as you say,  the new generation of cruisers are very much the target market for now and for the future.

[Megabear2]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

But for our forthcoming September  we paid less than £3000 each for 16 nights by booking  early.  Just throwing out random fares proves nothing.

 

That would compare well with my £3500 each on a Christmas Caribbean cruise but not with my Iona Canaries fortnight in October which is £1,700 each in a select balcony.

 

I'd be fascinated to know how much onboard spending people actually do because looking at my old accounts my spend comes absolutely nowhere near making the Saga fares viable on a "normal" European cruise.

 

Happened to have an old 2019 Cunard world cruise section account in the bag I've brought away with me this weekend and it shows $476 for the leg of 28 days!  In fairness I had booked and paid for excursions in advance over a period of months and I'd been gifted a 12 bottle wine package by my husband.  

 

My upcoming Celebrity Edge cruise is "all inclusive" but I still have optional extras to pay.  

Edited April 30, 2022 by Megabear2

[crompton21]

Saga reported (in March) that average forward bookings for 2022 were taken at £319 per person per night.  

 

 

[terrierjohn]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

But, MSC, with the Yacht Club have developed a premium offering within a mass market cruise ship.

I do wonder if P&O have missed a trick here. Many of us dislike larger ships because of the sheer mass of people. However,  if we could find a sanctuary with only a couple of hundred others,  perhaps our large ship  phobia could  be  overcome.

But unless your sanctuary was on the highest sun deck, probably only accessible by stairs, you could still be overlooked by the scruffy masses!🤔

[grapau27]

10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I dont believe any Voyager class ships went to Marella, they were both vision class ships, which are smaller than Aurora. 

@terrierjohn.

My mistake John.

Phone predictive text.☹️

It was Vision class.

Splendour and Legend of the seas went to Marella.

Splendour was one of our favourite ships and we sailed from Venice 3 times on her.

Enchantment, Rhapsody or Vision of the seas would fit the Oceana size.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by grapau27

[wowzz]

17 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

But unless your sanctuary was on the highest sun deck, probably only accessible by stairs, you could still be overlooked by the scruffy masses!🤔

Looking at the pictures and reading the reports, the Yacht Club is totally private, with no chance that the great unwashed will be able to see you, let alone touch you !

Private bar, restaurant, buffet etc. 

 

 

[wowzz]

46 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

but not with my Iona Canaries fortnight in October which is £1,700 each in a select balcony.

Understood, but you are looking at prices for a 5000 pax ship versus 999 pax. The comparison is not really valid.

[terrierjohn]

32 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

@terrierjohn.

My mistake John.

Phone predictive text.☹️

It was Vision class.

Splendour and Legend of the seas went to Marella.

Splendour was one of our favourite ships and we sailed from Venice 3 times on her.

Enchantment, Rhapsody or Vision of the seas would fit the Oceana size.

 

They do fit the size, but Oceana had 400 balcony cabins, Vision class only have 136.

[grapau27]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

They do fit the size, but Oceana had 400 balcony cabins, Vision class only have 136.

Personally a radiance class ship like Brilliance which are beautiful ships at 90,000 tons would imo fit the profile of a lot of our traditionalists on here would like.

[zap99]

23 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Personally a radiance class ship like Brilliance which are beautiful ships at 90,000 tons would imo fit the profile of a lot of our traditionalists on here would like.

We are looking at Serenade of the seas next September from Barcelona. Our last ' proper ' pre lockdown was in Brilliance. Nice ships, very nice ships. We are on Anthem in September this year. A bit bigger, but no dodgems on Radiance class.🤣

[grapau27]

10 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We are looking at Serenade of the seas next September from Barcelona. Our last ' proper ' pre lockdown was in Brilliance. Nice ships, very nice ships. We are on Anthem in September this year. A bit bigger, but no dodgems on Radiance class.🤣

We did a Baltic cruise on Serenade of the seas from Copenhagen in May 2015.

We did 2 Emirates and 1 Canary Islands cruises on Brilliance and loved the ships.

If one came to P&O to replace Aurora/Arcadia I think our P&O traditionalists would love it.

517 balcony cabins on Brilliance and serenade of the seas.

Edited April 30, 2022 by grapau27

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Understood, but you are looking at prices for a 5000 pax ship versus 999 pax. The comparison is not really valid.

Wasn't comparing as such one on one for the "experience" merely the financial one.  As a solo traveller I couldn't warrant travelling on Saga because I wouldn't use three quarters of their offering. 20 miles to Southampton and little on board spend would mean financially unviable.

 

I'd choose Cunard every time if I wanted a better experience than P&O. I can make my own choice on expenditure there.

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

The term mass market doesn’t just refer to the absolute number of passengers (although 50,000 more passengers wouldn’t be sniffed at), it’s a marketing and brand proposition that refers to the consumer profile of the target audience. When we first cruised with P&O 25 years ago, the majority of passengers were affluent retirees. As we know from this forum, many of the folk in that category don’t have a high on board spend, for example being happy with the MDR and getting best value out of the already included aspects of a cruise.

 

The type of customer that P&O is targeting nowadays is more likely to be families (higher cabin occupancy), those who are also more likely to avail themselves of things like drinks packages (being used to all inclusive land based holidays), a greater propensity towards ‘treats’ such as Select Dining and so on. The average on board spend from the new target customer will, in most cases, be higher than those of us who could be described as ‘traditional cruisers’. There will obviously be exceptions both ways, but in totality the average spend per passenger will rise as a result of this shift in target audience.
 

This isn’t just my reading of the situation by the way, as our resident P&O employee has said exactly the same about the change in the direction of the company towards the mass market and the reasons for it. As I’ve said many times before, whilst it may not be entirely to my liking, I can’t disagree with the approach as it makes very sound business sense and if I was in charge of P&O I would be doing exactly the same. 

Interesting! I can only say that when our three were teenagers and cruising with us, we spent very little on board, having already forked out for two cabins. Never ever used Select Dining - it would be x5 and anyway, the MDR was fine for us. I suspect that families would also think twice about spending on excursions and would be far more able to do their own thing. I remember excursions in St P and Athens, for instance, which ran into hundreds for the 5 of us, but we tried to cut down in smaller ports. The onboard shops have never tempted any of us and we we would never go for the drinks package (apart from the soda package for the children on RCI). We used to ration their visits to the arcade on Ventura because you could easily spend there without thinking! Whereas when my parents were with us, we always booked excursions as there were some mobility problems. I wonder whether young families have the spending power in the current climate to add to their onboard spend. Possibly with one child, but everything becomes very costly when you have 3+ children! 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

We did a Baltic cruise on Serenade of the seas from Copenhagen in May 2015.

We did 2 Emirates and 1 Canary Islands cruises on Brilliance and loved the ships.

If one came to P&O to replace Aurora/Arcadia I think our P&O traditionalists would love it.

517 balcony cabins on Brilliance and serenade of the seas.

I it's absolutely unlikely that RCI would ever consider selling one its ships to a Carnival brand, and even less likely that Carnival would give it P&O.

[grapau27]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I it's absolutely unlikely that RCI would ever consider selling one its ships to a Carnival brand, and even less likely that Carnival would give it P&O.

True.

The P&O Australia ships are former Princess ships so maybe they might transfer an older possibly Grand Princess or similar to P&O UK.

 

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, grapau27 said:

True.

The P&O Australia ships are former Princess ships so maybe they might transfer an older possibly Grand Princess or similar to P&O UK.

 

The traditionalists will still consider them to be too big, and at 25 yes old they would need a complete cabin refurbishment to bring them up to a modern standard.

[grapau27]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

The traditionalists will still consider them to be too big, and at 25 yes old they would need a complete cabin refurbishment to bring them up to a modern standard.

Grand Princess had a top deck refurbishment in March 2019.

We were on her in November/December 2019 to Hawaii and she seemed in great shape.

Personally once Arvia arrives I think unfortunately Arcadia and/or Aurora will be sold and possibly Azura or Ventura will take the adult only title.

[Denarius]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Wasn't comparing as such one on one for the "experience" merely the financial one.  As a solo traveller I couldn't warrant travelling on Saga because I wouldn't use three quarters of their offering. 20 miles to Southampton and little on board spend would mean financially unviable.

 

I'd choose Cunard every time if I wanted a better experience than P&O. I can make my own choice on expenditure there.

Imo Saga are not really in direct competition with P&O. They are in a different market sector and their nearest direct competitors are probably Viking and to a slightly lesser extent Oceania and Azamara. All these lines charge considerably more than P&O.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Ardennais said:

Interesting! I can only say that when our three were teenagers and cruising with us, we spent very little on board, having already forked out for two cabins. Never ever used Select Dining - it would be x5 and anyway, the MDR was fine for us. I suspect that families would also think twice about spending on excursions and would be far more able to do their own thing. I remember excursions in St P and Athens, for instance, which ran into hundreds for the 5 of us, but we tried to cut down in smaller ports. The onboard shops have never tempted any of us and we we would never go for the drinks package (apart from the soda package for the children on RCI). We used to ration their visits to the arcade on Ventura because you could easily spend there without thinking! Whereas when my parents were with us, we always booked excursions as there were some mobility problems. I wonder whether young families have the spending power in the current climate to add to their onboard spend. Possibly with one child, but everything becomes very costly when you have 3+ children! 

We certainly are in an upside down world now, but when our two daughters were teenagers and cruising with us (in a separate cabin) we used Select Dining quite a lot and also the excursions. They loved Sindhu, the Beach House and one of them even loved Epicurean from a young age (expensive tastes) 😂. I agree with you about the shops though. We have spent very little in them. Also the drinks package wouldn’t be cost effective for us even without all of the restrictions (which alone would rule it out for us) but the kids used to get the soft drinks cards that preceded the drinks package. Those with 2 or more kids would find the drinks package good value though. If I am not mistaken, if adults buy the drinks package then accompanying children get the soft drinks package free of charge. 

[zap99]

13 hours ago, wowzz said:

But for our forthcoming September  we paid less than £3000 each for 16 nights by booking  early.  Just throwing out random fares proves nothing.

 

There are some deals in their flyer in the times today..£1700 for a week in the fjords,  next May. Still about 20% more than Celebrity, but a bit more palatable . 12 nights Atlantic coast £2,900. Still not cheap.😥

[Host Sharon]

4 hours ago, crompton21 said:

Saga reported (in March) that average forward bookings for 2022 were taken at £319 per person per night.  

 

 

My South America cruise with them next January worked out at £186 pp pn, booked at launch. There are other considerations, besides the obvious included ones, such as space - a standard Saga cabin equates to a deluxe balcony on P&O, free room service (including dinner if you wish, or afternoon tea), and a lot of deck space per passenger. None of them deal-breakers but nice to have. I agree however, they equate much more to Oceania than P&O.