Will P&O ever replace the Oceana and Oriana.

[Denarius]

4 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I thought the current P&O Arcadia was a new build in 2004 and in service with P&O from 2005.

The current Arcadia entered service in April 2005. She had originally been intended for Holland America, then Cunard (as Queen Victoria) but ended up with P&O.

[Britboys]

I sadly have to agree with the majority in that P&O won't be likely to bring in any smaller ships again. They are gradually evolving into a big-ship, more casual line trying to appeal more to younger pax and families.

Cunard will continue to do a World Cruise and Carnival will hope that P&O pax will move over.

There may be a very outside chance that Carnival decide to take the two smallest Princess ships out of the fleet and transfer Island to P&O but as she is only 3 years younger than Aurora, it really would be a very outside chance.

As someone who has tried Azura twice and hated it, I have resigned myself to moving to other cruise lines in the foreseeable future as Aurora and Arcadia could potentially be disposed of at any point in the next 2 to 7 years I feel.

[kalos]

1 hour ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

But sadly if that is what they want then so be it. But a word of warning to them and that is "Who will fill their ships when children are back at school and parents have to return to work " ?

 

Same as who have always filled the ships . Folks take holidays all year round ,I used to have

20 odd days of flexible (I choose) holidays per year . I have seen plenty of kids on cruise ships

in school term . If the price is right some families will pay school fines for their kids as they 

are quid's in by doing so . Due to the low prices this will always attract  the bargain seeking 

pensioner that is willing to go regardless of the ships size .  P&O know what they're doing .

Edited April 29, 2022 by kalos

[AuroraCruiser08]

21 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

That's not the way they are going.  I can see either Aurora or Arcadia going this year.

More than latter I would say. 

 

However since COVID maybe the move to huge ships will die off ( obviously some big ships are already on order) and maybe we will see a return to the njce size of Azura or the slightly smaller again Vista class. Tbh a P&O Pinnacle class like the new Queen Anne could be nice or one of Princess's new builds. 

 

Going on a limb maybe P&O will aquire some Princess Grand Class ships as a result of recent princess new builds

[zap99]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

 

Same as who have always filled the ships . Folks take holidays all year round ,I used to have

20 odd days of flexible (I choose) holidays per year . I have seen plenty of kids on cruise ships

in school term . If the price is right some families will pay school fines for their kids as they 

are quid's in by doing so . Due to the low prices this will always attract  the bargain seeking 

pensioner that is willing to go regardless of the ships size .  P&O know what they're doing .

When we were at work we had 25 days flexible leave. We would look at what was available at the time we wanted to go and at a price we were prepared to pay. Land holiday, trip in the car to Europe or a cruise. If we chose a cruise it didn't bother us who it was with, or if it was a big, or little, new or old ship. Still doesn't. We are not in a nostalgic love affair with a favourite old ship. Not all big new shiny ships will be full of young families with kids. Many old wrinklies like us actually like modern things, ships included. 

[daiB]

2 hours ago, Denarius said:

The current Arcadia entered service in April 2005. She had originally been intended for Holland America, then Cunard (as Queen Victoria) but ended up with P&O.

Not quite true. She was a follow on from a H/A design but then Cunard was to have her, hence the Cunard style funnel. Before fitting out was complete Cunard said they did not want her as they wanted a ‘Queens Room’ So P&O got her.

[daiB]

P&O will not get a smaller ship built. The simple reason that building a one off ship is very expensive. You will note that all P&O’s ships are follow on’s. From Arcadia to Arvia all of the ships have been already designed for H/A or more recently Princess.

 

The decision has to come from Carnival, they need to see a use for a fleet of smaller ships. Until that happens P&O will not get a one off ship, or even 2.

 

[AuroraCruiser08]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

When we were at work we had 25 days flexible leave. We would look at what was available at the time we wanted to go and at a price we were prepared to pay. Land holiday, trip in the car to Europe or a cruise. If we chose a cruise it didn't bother us who it was with, or if it was a big, or little, new or old ship. Still doesn't. We are not in a nostalgic love affair with a favourite old ship. Not all big new shiny ships will be full of young families with kids. Many old wrinklies like us actually like modern things, ships included. 

Agreed when we were on Iona at Christmas there were far more older (70+) on onboard than young families. Most older people like the bigger ships, more space, more options of things to do, more chance of that deck chair. 

 

P&O can't keep going bigger and bigger. Whatever newbukld they get next will probably be less an 5,000 pax imo probably around the 3,000 mark I'm going to guess. Anything really above Iona size will start having issues docking in places. 

[majortom10]

4 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

Sadly it can't be much longer for either of them. Oriana went in 2019 when she was 23 and both Aurora and Arcadia went into service around 2000 although Arcadia didn't join P&O until 2005. So in effect both are around 22 years old. I think it's the cost to maintain and run these smaller ships and also if true where it has been said these larger ships can break even at between 25-30% full I doubt very much that a ship with a capacity of around 2000 could run with 500 passengers without losing money. 

Arcadia is only 17yrs old as her maiden was in 2005 and she had never sailed with any other company prior to that she was a brand new ship. Aurora being 22yrs old I think will be the faourite to go first and when they have both gone I dont think either will be replaced.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

Not quite true. She was a follow on from a H/A design but then Cunard was to have her, hence the Cunard style funnel. Before fitting out was complete Cunard said they did not want her as they wanted a ‘Queens Room’ So P&O got her.

Isnt that the same as Denarius said. 

[Selbourne]

I’m not a betting man, but would place a sizeable bet on P&O not introducing any more small ships when Aurora and Arcadia are retired. To do so would completely fly in the face of their strategy, which is large resort ships targeted at the mass market. They are becoming the Easy Jet / Premier Inn equivalent of U.K. cruising. Nothing wrong with either of those brands by the way (I use and rate them both) but their target market is absolutely nothing like it was when we first cruised with them (most passengers were affluent retirees). That group now seeks a very different experience that even Aurora and Arcadia are barely clinging on to, hence the success of Saga cruises, in spite of their eye watering prices.
 

Whilst P&O’s direction of travel won’t suit many of us, I agree with it as a business strategy and think it’s a wise move. By the way, we like the big ships as well as the smaller ones, although I have a few reservations about Iona (which we are booked to go on next year) but will give it a go and make our own mind up. 

[Denarius]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I’m not a betting man, but would place a sizeable bet on P&O not introducing any more small ships when Aurora and Arcadia are retired. To do so would completely fly in the face of their strategy, which is large resort ships targeted at the mass market. They are becoming the Easy Jet / Premier Inn equivalent of U.K. cruising. Nothing wrong with either of those brands by the way (I use and rate them both) but their target market is absolutely nothing like it was when we first cruised with them (most passengers were affluent retirees). That group now seeks a very different experience that even Aurora and Arcadia are barely clinging on to, hence the success of Saga cruises, in spite of their eye watering prices.
 

Whilst P&O’s direction of travel won’t suit many of us, I agree with it as a business strategy and think it’s a wise move. By the way, we like the big ships as well as the smaller ones, although I have a few reservations about Iona (which we are booked to go on next year) but will give it a go and make our own mind up. 

When I took my first P&O cruise on Oriana in 1997 it was very much middle England at sea. That P&O organised onboard meetings for Rotarians, Freemasons and "Masonic Widows" (!) gives you a very good idea of the type of passenger P&O got - or hoped to get - in those days. I recently took my first Saga ocean cruise and found a distinct similarity with that first cruise as regards the passengers onboard.

[Britboys]

5 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

...But a word of warning to them and that is "Who will fill their ships when children are back at school and parents have to return to work " ?

You answered your own question in your previous post. They don't need to fill the larger ships all the time because they'll make profits if the ships are only half full. Additionally, the numbers of those of us who have enjoyed the more traditional style of cruise on the smaller ships diminish each year and a percentage of those also enjoy the larger ships.

[crompton21]

Regarding a shift to a mass market approach, would I be correct in thinking that Iona has replaced Oriana and Oceana?  (Factually speaking , as opposed to what anyone thinks of that idea).  If so, 4000 passenger capacity lost and 5000 gained, or 50000 more passengers annually assuming 50 7 day cruises.

I make that a need for an extra 0.07% of the U.K. population to cruise, not really that much of a change.  

[silversurf]

Selbourne, sorry to disagree about eye watering prices on Saga. When you think of what’s included, chauffeur, all-inclusive, including drinks, coffee, speciality dining, included excursions (although basic) and most important for us, insurance of £75 which covers our advanced age and medical condition; to get two weeks insurance with most companies is £700+.
 Also gourmet food and 1st class service.

I have cruised with P and O several times including Iona and enjoyed them, but our on board bill for two weeks is eye watering, whereas our bill on our last Saga cruise was zero. Just a couple of tips for extra special crew.

,

[Selbourne]

46 minutes ago, silversurf said:

Selbourne, sorry to disagree about eye watering prices on Saga. When you think of what’s included, chauffeur, all-inclusive, including drinks, coffee, speciality dining, included excursions (although basic) and most important for us, insurance of £75 which covers our advanced age and medical condition; to get two weeks insurance with most companies is £700+.
 Also gourmet food and 1st class service.

I have cruised with P and O several times including Iona and enjoyed them, but our on board bill for two weeks is eye watering, whereas our bill on our last Saga cruise was zero. Just a couple of tips for extra special crew.

,

All fair points. We have an annual travel insurance policy that costs around £140 (including cover for our adult daughters who don’t live with us any more) and it even covers my wife’s medical condition. We don’t do excursions any more (my wife cannot board a coach). We don’t drink a huge amount of alcohol and never use the coffee shop. I’d probably also prefer to drive than be driven, so many of those extras (all priced in) wouldn’t hugely appeal to us. That being said, we use Select Dining restaurants quite often and would be prepared to pay more for a better quality product than P&O now offers, so Saga is definitely in the running for us.

[mobilegb12]

Never sailed on Arcadia but Aurora is our favourite P&O ship with the right ambience and mix of passengers for us. Recently returned from an experimental cruise on Iona and it is not an experiment that we will be repeating, although the Conservatory cabins (Deck 9 only!) are a good innovation.

We have two future cruises booked on Aurora as well as one with Saga and should Aurora be sold will probably switch fully to Saga as Silversurf is correct that taking all costs into account they are not dramatically more expensive - especially if booked early.

The direction of the industry is interesting as MSC as well as building larger and larger ships are also investing in a new range of smaller adult only ships with Explora. Carnival as a group do not really have an equivalent to Oceania or Azamara and, in my opinion, are missing a trick.

Slightly off topic, but did I pick up from the info on Queen Anne that Cunard are offering open dining for all cabins? The lack of that is the only reason we would not sail with them so I hope it is true.

[jeanlyon]

I have looked at Saga cruises, even with the included add ons, insurance, excursions (which we don't do) and booze.  It's still twice what we pay with P&O.  That said, we will be cancelling our 2023 cruise on Aurora, because of the added costs of travel insurance, etc.  Going to France will be far more enjoyable and will cost a third of the cost of travel insurance for cruising.  After 12 years of cruising, it's not the same any more and we won't miss it.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

It's still twice what we pay with P&O. 

Jean, you have conveniently forgotten to mention that you only book an inside cabin on P&O,  so comparing the cost to a balcony cabin on Saga is hardly fair !

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, mobilegb12 said:

...The direction of the industry is interesting as MSC as well as building larger and larger ships are also investing in a new range of smaller adult only ships with Explora. Carnival as a group do not really have an equivalent to Oceania or Azamara and, in my opinion, are missing a trick...

They have Seabourn....

[terrierjohn]

10 hours ago, grapau27 said:

When we were on the Britannia 3 night Easter cruise some of the bars/music venues didn't close till 5am and the bar takings must have been huge.

This happens regularly on the younger demographic cruises where shorter up to 7 nights cruises proves your point Gill.

Royal  Caribbean Voyager class ships 2 of which went to Marella would fit the Oceana size of cruise ship plus they have plenty of balcony cabins.

I dont believe any Voyager class ships went to Marella, they were both vision class ships, which are smaller than Aurora. 

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, mobilegb12 said:

The direction of the industry is interesting as MSC as well as building larger and larger ships are also investing in a new range of smaller adult only ships with Explora

But, MSC, with the Yacht Club have developed a premium offering within a mass market cruise ship.

I do wonder if P&O have missed a trick here. Many of us dislike larger ships because of the sheer mass of people. However,  if we could find a sanctuary with only a couple of hundred others,  perhaps our large ship  phobia could  be  overcome.

[zap99]

59 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Jean, you have conveniently forgotten to mention that you only book an inside cabin on P&O,  so comparing the cost to a balcony cabin on Saga is hardly fair !

A good deal with them in the paper today. 15 nights £4,600 each. Cheap as chips🤣

[Britboys]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

A good deal with them in the paper today. 15 nights £4,600 each. Cheap as chips🤣

And probably at least £6000 - £7000 for a single cabin....

[zap99]

2 minutes ago, Britboys said:

And probably at least £6000 - £7000 for a single cabin....

I just had a look at their website. I made a mistake , the £4,600 was for 13 nights.