Question about Princess approach to passengers who miss boarding due to flight delays

[karatemom2]

I was just wondering if anyone had any recent experience with this, especially given the airline challenges right now. We almost missed our flight to Vancouver onour recent cruise in May - I won't go into the long story. But we were able to make it and all was well. However, we assumed at the time that had we missed, Princess would have allowed us to board a couple of days late in Juneau. We did see some people coming on that day through Sabatinis.

 

But, on the other hand, with current testing requirements before boarding we weren't sure if we would have been allowed to join late at another port, even though we had proof of negative tests.

 

Fortunately, we didn't have to find out, but as I read all the airline horror stories, I was just curious if anyone knew what the policy was or if this has happened to anyone recently.

[dog]

Insurance covers missed flights/ delays.

if you purchase EZ air flights through Princess they will assist you in getting to next port to embark, if possible.

[beg3yrs]

3 hours ago, karatemom2 said:

...However, we assumed at the time that had we missed, Princess would have allowed us to board a couple of days late in Juneau. We did see some people coming on that day through Sabatinis.

...

Unless you were booked round-trip back to Vancouver it's very unlikely you'd have been allowed to board in Juneau as that would be a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Acts (PVSA for short).

[karatemom2]

3 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

Unless you were booked round-trip back to Vancouver it's very unlikely you'd have been allowed to board in Juneau as that would be a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Acts (PVSA for short).

We were booked round trip. It was the first cruise of the season on Royal. 12 days round trip Vancouver - it also included Victoria. So Jones Act would not have been an issue for us. 

[beg3yrs]

10 hours ago, karatemom2 said:

We were booked round trip. It was the first cruise of the season on Royal. 12 days round trip Vancouver - it also included Victoria. So Jones Act would not have been an issue for us. 

The Jones Act is NEVER an issue for passengers. The Jones Act has to do with cargo. It's the PVSA that's a concern for us cruisers.

[skynight]

You have next port protection with EZ Air when legally allowed. In your example boarding in Juneau on a one way voyage from Vancouver to Whitter would not be permitted. A similar situation would happen with a RT Hawaii cruise. You would not be allowed to board in Hawaii and thus you would miss the entire cruise. But, on a Caribbean cruise you could board at one of the non US islands. People you saw boarding probably were crew or entertainers. The best approach I think these days would be to schedule your flights at least a few days before the ship is scheduled to sail or if close enough drive to the port. Flights are being cancelled and delayed everywhere and this is not under cruise line's control.

Edited June 21, 2022 by skynight

[karatemom2]

22 minutes ago, skynight said:

You have next port protection with EZ Air when legally allowed. In your example boarding in Juneau on a one way voyage from Vancouver to Whitter would not be permitted. A similar situation would happen with a RT Hawaii cruise. You would not be allowed to board in Hawaii and thus you would miss the entire cruise. But, on a Caribbean cruise you could board at one of the non US islands. People you saw boarding probably were crew or entertainers. The best approach I think these days would be to schedule your flights at least a few days before the ship is scheduled to sail or if close enough drive to the port. Flights are being cancelled and delayed everywhere and this is not under cruise line's control.

Once again, to clarify, we were on a round trip cruise from Vancouver. And we were booked through EZAir. So in our case I believe we would have been allowed to board in Juneau. Our itinerary still included two foreign ports following Juneau - Victoria and Vancouver - so the PVSA ( I stand firmly corrected by @beg3yrs) would not have been an issue for us had we missed our flight.
 

Given the current situation the advice to fly into your departure port early is sound. We are traveling to London 5 days in advance of our British Isles cruise in August and I’m very glad we set it up that way. 
 

Also, just a note on the Hawaii cruises, that depends on your itinerary. We cruised multiple times out of LA to Hawaii and the foreign port stop was Ensenada at the end of the cruise. So passengers could absolutely board in Hawaii. We saw it multiple times. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by karatemom2

[Guest ldtr]

22 minutes ago, skynight said:

You have next port protection with EZ Air when legally allowed. In your example boarding in Juneau on a one way voyage from Vancouver to Whitter would not be permitted. A similar situation would happen with a RT Hawaii cruise. You would not be allowed to board in Hawaii and thus you would miss the entire cruise. But, on a Caribbean cruise you could board at one of the non US islands. People you saw boarding probably were crew or entertainers. The best approach I think these days would be to schedule your flights at least a few days before the ship is scheduled to sail or if close enough drive to the port. Flights are being cancelled and delayed everywhere and this is not under cruise line's control.

There are exceptions to the rule.  A few months ago some folks missed the departure in SF on the 15 day Hawaii cruise.  Princess did fly them to Hawaii and they were able to board in Honolulu. even though it was a technical violation of PVSA.

[karatemom2]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

There are exceptions to the rule.  A few months ago some folks missed the departure in SF on the 15 day Hawaii cruise.  Princess did fly them to Hawaii and they were able to board in Honolulu. even though it was a technical violation of PVSA.

Not a violation - the foreign port for West Coast Hawaii cruises is Ensenada which Is generally the last day so passengers can board in Hawaii without being in violation. We saw this several times on our Hawaii cruises. Once a whole group traveling from Canada boarded in Hilo because they missed flights due to bad weather. 

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, karatemom2 said:

Not a violation - the foreign port for West Coast Hawaii cruises is Ensenada which Is generally the last day so passengers can board in Hawaii without being in violation. We saw this several times on our Hawaii cruises. Once a whole group traveling from Canada boarded in Hilo because they missed flights due to bad weather. 

Well, yes it is a violation. Round trips (start and end ports are the same) on non-US flagged vessels may visit a near foreign port to satisfy PVSA requirements. However, boarding in Hawaii and disembarking in Los Angeles makes the journey a point-to-point and then a far foreign port is required to satisfy the PVSA. Ensenada is not a far foreign port.

 

And ... sorry, didn't mean to come across so strongly in my previous post! Shouldn't have used the CAPS.

Edited June 21, 2022 by beg3yrs

[karatemom2]

17 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

Well, yes it is a violation. Round trips (start and end ports are the same) on non-US flagged vessels may visit a near foreign port to satisfy PVSA requirements. However, boarding in Hawaii and disembarking in Los Angeles makes the journey a point-to-point and then a far foreign port is required to satisfy the PVSA. Ensenada is not a far foreign port.

 

And ... sorry, didn't mean to come across so strongly in my previous post! Shouldn't have used the CAPS.

 

Interesting - well it's true, it isn't far from LA, but it is far from Hawaii, so maybe that is how they get around it for people who end up boarding there and in essence doing a Hawaii to LA cruise. I just know on at least three of our Hawaii cruises we met passengers who either boarded or had family board in Hawaii. We always traveled at Christmas, so weather was always an issue. The one family I referenced was doing a huge extended family trip and only one family who was from CA made it onboard. The rest were all traveling from Canada and missed the ship, even though the Captain held up departure as long as possible because so many travelers were delayed. We got to know them quite well on the 5 days over - they were so happy to get to Hilo and have the rest of the family get on the ship - it was actually Christmas day. I will never forget walking through the terminal where you exit at Hilo and seeing the long line of people with their bags waiting to board the ship. So whatever the mechanism or allowance, at least for Hawaii cruises I know for a fact it can be done. And there were no financial penalties for the passengers. In fact, Princess flew them to Hilo and paid for their hotel which I thought was really wonderful.

Edited June 21, 2022 by karatemom2

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, karatemom2 said:

Not a violation - the foreign port for West Coast Hawaii cruises is Ensenada which Is generally the last day so passengers can board in Hawaii without being in violation. We saw this several times on our Hawaii cruises. Once a whole group traveling from Canada boarded in Hilo because they missed flights due to bad weather. 

Actually it would be a violation since they boarded in Honolulu and then disembarked in SF.

 

The violation occurs based upon where you embark and disembark, not the planned route of the cruise.

 

Normally with the Hawaiian cruises if you miss departure, the only place you can board is Ensenada since all of the other ports are US ports.  

 

If it is the Hawaiian cruise to/from Vancouver no problem since it does not end in a US port.

 

For LA and SF departures and usually the answer by the cruise lines has been no.  Sometimes, under special circumstances they have allowed it.  

 

Those that I know of for which it has been allowed have all been purchased flights through Princess so they may have chosen to eat the fine instead of refunding the entire flights and cruise.  If they do it too often then the Coast Guard will get upset and may do more than the fine.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by ldtr

[karatemom2]

9 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Actually it would be a violation since they boarded in Honolulu and then disembarked in SF.

 

The violation occurs based upon where you embark and disembark, not the planned route of the cruise.

 

Normally with the Hawaiian cruises if you miss departure, the only place you can board is Ensenada since all of the other ports are US ports.  

 

If it is the Hawaiian cruise to/from Vancouver no problem since it does not end in a US port.

 

For LA and SF departures and usually the answer by the cruise lines has been no.  Sometimes, under special circumstances they have allowed it.  

 

Those that I know of for which it has been allowed have all been purchased flights through Princess so they may have chosen to eat the fine instead of refunding the entire flights and cruise.  If they do it too often then the Coast Guard will get upset and may do more than the fine.

 

 

 

See my reply above. I'm no expert - but I do speak from experience. Passengers that we have personally known and with whom we interacted were able to board in Hawaii and complete the trip. As I said, maybe it is because Ensenada would be a far foreign port for what essentially had become a Hawaii to LA itinerary for them. Regardless, it  can and has been done. This would be true for SF as well as those cruises stop in Ensenada too. Princess has figured out a way to make it possible. That is all I'm pointing out.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by karatemom2

[beg3yrs]

17 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 

Interesting - well it's true, it isn't far from LA, but it is far from Hawaii, so maybe that is how they get around it for people who end up boarding there and in essence doing a Hawaii to LA cruise....

The definition of far and near foreign ports is pretty explicit in the law and it doesn't depend on how far the port is from any particular part of the United States. I won't argue about what you experienced (how could I?) but will leave you with this document from Customs and Border Patrol. It's a good summary of what we should know (and more) about the PVSA. I note there is some ambiguous language about it pertaining to the United States and within so far of the continental shelf. However it does discuss territories (Hawaii was a territory at the time the law was written).

 

Your points are well made that it can be done if Princess chooses to do so. I suppose what I'm getting at is there will be time when Princess will not to allow booking a particular combination of cruises and times when they will decide not to allow one to join a ship at a later port.

PVSA-ICP.pdf

Edited June 21, 2022 by beg3yrs

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

 

See my reply above. I'm no expert - but I do speak from experience. Passengers that we have personally known and with whom we interacted were able to board in Hawaii and complete the trip. As I said, maybe it is because Ensenada would be a far foreign port for what essentially had become a Hawaii to LA itinerary for them. Regardless, it  can and has been done. This would be true for SF as well as those cruises stop in Ensenada too. Princess has figured out a way to make it possible. That is all I'm pointing out.

 

 

Certainly not a far distant port.  There are no far distant ports in north america.  Closest are South America and the ABC Islands.  The reason 1 was Panama canal stop at one or the other.

 

I also know of people that did not get flights with Princess, that were able to board in Hawaii, but only by making arrangements to disembark in Ensenada and travel from there, instead of disembarking in LA.

 

It does happen, but they are exceptions, and the cruise line makes a decision on each case depending upon the circumstances.

[skynight]

6 hours ago, karatemom2 said:

Once again, to clarify, we were on a round trip cruise from Vancouver. And we were booked through EZAir. So in our case I believe we would have been allowed to board in Juneau. Our itinerary still included two foreign ports following Juneau - Victoria and Vancouver - so the PVSA ( I stand firmly corrected by @beg3yrs) would not have been an issue for us had we missed our flight.
 

Given the current situation the advice to fly into your departure port early is sound. We are traveling to London 5 days in advance of our British Isles cruise in August and I’m very glad we set it up that way. 
 

Also, just a note on the Hawaii cruises, that depends on your itinerary. We cruised multiple times out of LA to Hawaii and the foreign port stop was Ensenada at the end of the cruise. So passengers could absolutely board in Hawaii. We saw it multiple times. 

On your Alaska itinerary you could board in Juneau since the ship is sailing from a US port to a Canada port one way. No legal issues.

On RT Hawaii cruises from LA passengers would not permitted to board in Hawaii. Reason. To sail between two different US ports a non US Flag vessel must make a port stop at at least one distant foreign port. Ensenada is not a distant foreign port. It is a near foreign port which is sufficient for RT itineraries, but not when a passenger boards at one US port and disembarks at another. The closest defined distant foreign ports would be in South America or some other Pacific Island in the South Pacific. Doubtful any passengers boarded in Hawaii. Probably crew or entertainers. Crew and entertainers are not restricted by the PVSA. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by skynight

[Guest ldtr]

4 minutes ago, skynight said:

On your Alaska itinerary you could board in Juneau since the ship is sailing from a US port to a Canada port one way. No legal issues.

On RT Hawaii cruises from LA passengers would not permitted to board in Hawaii. Reason. To sail between two different US ports a non US Flag vessel must make a port stop at at least one distant foreign port. Ensenada is not a distant foreign port. It is a near foreign port which is sufficient for RT itineraries, but not when a passenger boards at one US port and disembarks at another. The closest defined distant foreign ports would be in South America or some other Pacific Island in the South Pacific. Doubtful any passengers boarded in Hawaii. Probably crew or entertainers. Crew and entertainers are not restricted by the PVSA. 

There have been some cases where Princess has allowed it.  On one cruise this spring a couple missed the departure.  Princess flew them to Honolulu where they boarded the ship and cruised back to SF.

 

While it is a PVSA violation there are cases where Princess has made exceptions.  What their criteria is for making such an exception is  what is unclear.

[karatemom2]

25 minutes ago, ldtr said:

There have been some cases where Princess has allowed it.  On one cruise this spring a couple missed the departure.  Princess flew them to Honolulu where they boarded the ship and cruised back to SF.

 

While it is a PVSA violation there are cases where Princess has made exceptions.  What their criteria is for making such an exception is  what is unclear.

 

This must be the case. I know for a fact that fellow passengers who we met and talked with personally boarded in Hilo and Princess handled all of the arrangements. So there must be a way to make it happen. Maybe Princess pays whatever fine is involved. But it does happen.

[kiwimum]

Many years ago, Celebrity had one way cruises from Hawaii to Ensenada and Ensenada to Hawaii.   All passengers, singers, dancers, shop personnel were disembarked in Ensenada and the ship sailed with only ships company to San Diego.   Another time we checked in at San Diego and buses took everyone to Ensenada for the trip to Hawaii.   This was done to comply with the PVSA.

 

[donswife]

We are flying same day from Portland for 2 short west coast cruises in September and October. We know the risk, and will not be devastated if we miss a day or 2. I will only book through EZair for same day flights now, after our cruise from Vancouver to LA was so late (multiple problems snowballed) that we missed our SWA flight and had to sort it out ourselves.  If we miss the ship, we will still be somewhere sunny!

[masscruiser2010]

Well, here is the freshest info on this subject -- which I just received this morning from the Princess "Customer Solutions Department."

 

The Passenger Services Act, also known as the Passenger Vessel Services Act or PVSA, prohibits ships of non-U.S. registry from embarking and disembarking passengers at two different U.S. ports.  Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S. ports, a practice prohibited on foreign flagged vessels.

 

An exception to this general rule allows passengers to be transported between two U.S. ports if the cruise itinerary includes a port call at a "distant foreign port".  Distant foreign ports do not include Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean islands.  South America and the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

Based on the above information we must regrettably deny your request to embark the Crown Princess in Honolulu, Hawaii on 13DEC22 and disembark in Los Angeles, California on 22DEC22.

 

That presumably should end this discussion.

[Guest ldtr]

23 hours ago, kiwimum said:

Many years ago, Celebrity had one way cruises from Hawaii to Ensenada and Ensenada to Hawaii.   All passengers, singers, dancers, shop personnel were disembarked in Ensenada and the ship sailed with only ships company to San Diego.   Another time we checked in at San Diego and buses took everyone to Ensenada for the trip to Hawaii.   This was done to comply with the PVSA.

 

When Celebrity started that route they sold bookings saying San Diego to/from Honolulu . Many people did not find out about the bus portion until they checked in at the San Diego cruise terminal, or after they checked in in Honolulu.  Many were upset. The route did not last long.

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, masscruiser2010 said:

Well, here is the freshest info on this subject -- which I just received this morning from the Princess "Customer Solutions Department."

 

The Passenger Services Act, also known as the Passenger Vessel Services Act or PVSA, prohibits ships of non-U.S. registry from embarking and disembarking passengers at two different U.S. ports.  Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S. ports, a practice prohibited on foreign flagged vessels.

 

 

 

An exception to this general rule allows passengers to be transported between two U.S. ports if the cruise itinerary includes a port call at a "distant foreign port".  Distant foreign ports do not include Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean islands.  South America and the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

 

 

Based on the above information we must regrettably deny your request to embark the Crown Princess in Honolulu, Hawaii on 13DEC22 and disembark in Los Angeles, California on 22DEC22.

 

That presumably should end this discussion.

Except you are making a request to join the ship there well in advance of the cruise.  Those will certainly be denied, unless you combine it with a request to depart the cruise in Ensenada.  Pre-Covid there have been cases of people that have done that.  These days cruise lines are far less likely to approve any planned deviations.

 

The question here is if someone misses the departure if they will be able to join the ship.  There certainly have examples of when people have missed departure due to flight problems and Princess has allowed them to join the ship in Honolulu.  The only cases I know of personally have been people that also booked their air through Princess.  As stated above it is unclear exactly how Princess makes the decision but there have certainly been exceptions.

[geoherb]

4 hours ago, masscruiser2010 said:

That presumably should end this discussion.

 

You must not have been paying attention to previous threads. Nothing ends a discussion. In the case you cite, it seems as if you asked for a deviation that would have allowed you to board the ship in Hawaii instead of California.