Permanent Cutbacks on Carnival

[mz-s]

4 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

NCL's the Local/O'Sheehans is open 24 hours a day and RCI's Sorrento's is open 24 hours a day and Princess's International Cafe is open 24 hours a day.  No pretending going on, these are facts.

The fact that Carnival has cut back the hours of the pizza place is not that big of a deal, but it is a big deal that it's the only place to get something to eat that's free after 10:00 pm on the Excel Class.

 

The pizza place is now the only place to eat after 10:00 PM fleetwide. Or at least, after the deli closes. The "late night snacks" buffet is nixed, instead the pizza place will serve Stouffer's lasagna in addition to pizza.

[jimbo5544]

24 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

The pizza place is now the only place to eat after 10:00 PM fleetwide. Or at least, after the deli closes. The "late night snacks" buffet is nixed, instead the pizza place will serve Stouffer's lasagna in addition to pizza.

Love the editorial, it adds so much to the conversation.

 

[mz-s]

21 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Love the editorial, it adds so much to the conversation.

 

 

Well at least on the Sunshine in May, the lasagna they served certainly wasn't what was served in Cucina or MDR. I suppose the actual brand varies based upon "supply chain challenges"

[fuddrules]

2 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

NCL's the Local/O'Sheehans is open 24 hours a day and RCI's Sorrento's is open 24 hours a day and Princess's International Cafe is open 24 hours a day.  No pretending going on, these are facts.

The fact that Carnival has cut back the hours of the pizza place is not that big of a deal, but it is a big deal that it's the only place to get something to eat that's free after 10:00 pm on the Excel Class.

 

Just being honest here but missing a few late night meals and doing a little more walking wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for many frequent cruisers.

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 People like to pretend that other cruise lines have everything going all day.

People like to pretend there aren't staffing issues or cutbacks on other lines. They only fool themselves.

[pc_load_letter]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

There's definitely a few options. People like to pretend that other cruise lines have everything going all day.

 

The deli is seriously underrated. I remember when they "changed it" and everyone cried of cutbacks. Since Carnival tries to "preassemble" the sandwiches, people associate it with prepackaged gas station food. I actually like the new menu better. It is quite good.

 

Agreed, after twenty or so cruises on Carnival, I tried the deli for the first time last month.

 

It was good and will definitely return.

 

But I do think the "optics" of the sandwiches stacked up is not good. I wish they could come up with a better system.

[Retiredmedic]

3 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

How long ago was that? I don't think the Deli has any frozen sandwiches anymore. Everything that I've ordered anyway is fresh made to order.

March this year, on the Vista, it was Carnival's version of the Cuban, it still had ice in the middle.

[Lane Hog]

5 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

RCI's Sorrento's is open 24 hours a day

 

Yeah, that's outdated info.  On our February RCL cruise, Sorrento's closed at 0300 and didn't re-open until 1100 or so.

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

Well at least on the Sunshine in May, the lasagna they served certainly wasn't what was served in Cucina or MDR. I suppose the actual brand varies based upon "supply chain challenges"

Uh huh

[vicky3vicky]

Since we started cruising on Carnival 26 years ago there have been so many cutbacks and so many additions. Balancing them out I would take current cutbacks and additions. Bring in the price, adjusted for inflation, and we get so much more today than back then. 

 

Right now Carnival is fighting for survival. Covid, and now inflation has impacted many of us. Carnival much more than most of us.

 

I always loved teatime so we're thinking of putting our own together with daughter,grand daughter and great grand daughter if they come with us on our November 12 Panorama cruise. 

 

We will have a couple of teen boys with us, so we will get a couple of sandwiches and cookies from the deli and put in fridge. If they aren't eaten that night they can be breakfast the next day.

 

We always order coffee on boarding day. I keep the tray and the coffee pot so that I can fill both of them for later in order not to cause more extra work for those who deliver room service.

 

We'll be better than good. We don't expect luxuries because Carnival is not a luxury cruise line. I prefer it that way. I remember when they would pull our chairs out to be seated for dinner, there were tablecloths that my kids [or I] would invariably spill drinks on, and would take one sip of water and immediately someone would be filling my water glass up which actually made me uncomfortable because if they were looming that close they could probably hear all private conversations as well.

 

I'm glad that Carnival is not a luxury line and I'm also glad that there are luxury lines for those who enjoy that experience. 

 

 

[KmomChicago]

4 hours ago, fuddrules said:

 

Just being honest here but missing a few late night meals and doing a little more walking wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for many frequent cruisers.

 

I resemble this remark.

[RD64]

From an Accounting / Economics viewpoint….

 

Carnival is a business - they are in business to earn a profit - not just earn a profit but to MAXIMIZE that profit.

 

How does Carnival do that? Initially it has to ensure that at a minimum all costs are covered. There are fixed costs - insurance, depreciation, shoreside expenses, certain staff costs, and fuel that must be paid regardless whether one passenger or 5000 passengers sail. The more passengers that sail, the lower will be the fixed cost per passenger which is a good thing.

 

Then there are the variable costs - costs that vary based on the number of passengers that sail. This would primarily be labour (cabin and dining room stewards), and food.

 

Carnival must strike a balance in setting base fares that cover both the fixed and variable costs. 
 

By the sounds of this thread, there are many that want good 24/7, want an ext3nded brunch, want shrimp and lobster, and the oppty to eat ten pieces of filet mignonette at the brunch. However this cannot be done - and be fiscally responsible to shareholders - at the bargain rates we have seen lately. Carnival cannot increase the base rate as people will balk at a $10 increase, and play the I do not want to subsidize everyone else’s cruise because I do not eat shrimp card.

This now brings up the concept of Marginal (Additional) Cost and Revenue. For a business, those items which incur an additional or marginal cost or only worth offering to the public if there is marginal (additional) revenue to cover those costs. Is there any additional revenue being generated from extending the brunch to 1PM or offering filet mignon? No! Then from a profit maximization standpoint best to reduce / eliminate.

 

Late night food offerings? Room service? Tea time? These entail extra costs for labour and food? Any extra revenue generated? No! Then they can be eliminated or reduced. Many years ago - think 2009 - Carnival used to offer free espresso and cappuccino in the dining room - yes free - not a dime to be paid in addition. This disappeared of course, because why offer it for free when people will pay for it. Now I can hear the “ I never eat in the main dining room” and the “ it doesn’t affect me because I don’t drink espresso” crowd, but just another taken for granted perk that went the way of the dodo never to return.

 

Alcohol sales? Shore Excursions? Bolt? Photographs? Specialty Dining? Is there a marginal cost to Carnival to offer these items? Hella Yes! However there is also the marginal revenue to offset them - and definitely earn a profit. These boards are filled with people who pride themselves on getting aboard and never spending another dime. Sorry but despite your loyalty you are not who Carnival wants on board. They want the newbies that get on board and spend freely. 
 

All of those billion dollar new builds are not going to pay for themselves on cruise fares alone. Since Carnival cannot reduce fares, it’s only other option to maximize profits is to reduce costs. 
 

Quite simply Accounting / Economics 101

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by RD64

[Illbcruzn4life]

39 minutes ago, RD64 said:

From an Accounting / Economics viewpoint….

 

Carnival is a business - they are in business to earn a profit - not just earn a profit but to MAXIMIZE that profit.

 

How does Carnival do that? Initially it has to ensure that at a minimum all costs are covered. There are fixed costs - insurance, depreciation, shoreside expenses, certain staff costs, and fuel that must be paid regardless whether one passenger or 5000 passengers sail. The more passengers that sail, the lower will be the fixed cost per passenger which is a good thing.

 

Then there are the variable costs - costs that vary based on the number of passengers that sail. This would primarily be labour (cabin and dining room stewards), and food.

 

Carnival must strike a balance in setting base fares that cover both the fixed and variable costs. 
 

By the sounds of this thread, there are many that want good 24/7, want an ext3nded brunch, want shrimp and lobster, and the oppty to eat ten pieces of filet mignonette at the brunch. However this cannot be done - and be fiscally responsible to shareholders - at the bargain rates we have seen lately. Carnival cannot increase the base rate as people will balk at a $10 increase, and play the I do not want to subsidize everyone else’s cruise because I do not eat shrimp card.

This now brings up the concept of Marginal (Additional) Cost and Revenue. For a business, those items which incur an additional or marginal cost or only worth offering to the public if there is marginal (additional) revenue to cover those costs. Is there any additional revenue being generated from extending the brunch to 1PM or offering filet mignon? No! Then from a profit maximization standpoint best to reduce / eliminate.

 

Late night food offerings? Room service? Tea time? These entail extra costs for labour and food? Any extra revenue generated? No! Then they can be eliminated or reduced. Many years ago - think 2009 - Carnival used to offer free espresso and cappuccino in the dining room - yes free - not a dime to be paid in addition. This disappeared of course, because why offer it for free when people will pay for it. Now I can hear the “ I never eat in the main dining room” and the “ it doesn’t affect me because I don’t drink espresso” crowd, but just another taken for granted perk that went the way of the dodo never to return.

 

Alcohol sales? Shore Excursions? Bolt? Photographs? Specialty Dining? Is there a marginal cost to Carnival to offer these items? Hella Yes! However there is also the marginal revenue to offset them - and definitely earn a profit. These boards are filled with people who pride themselves on getting aboard and never spending another dime. Sorry but despite your loyalty you are not who Carnival wants on board. They want the newbies that get on board and spend freely. 
 

All of those billion dollar new builds are not going to pay for themselves on cruise fares alone. Since Carnival cannot reduce fares, it’s only other option to maximize profits is to reduce costs. 
 

Quite simply Accounting / Economics 101

 

 

Let me preface this by saying I didn’t take economics 101.

 

in your last sentence you say since Carnival can’t reduce fares they have to reduce cost. 
 

Do you mean they can’t reduce fares since they are already giving them away at rock bottom prices or free? And how would reducing fares maximize profits?

 

i would have understood if you said since  they can’t raise prices , but again  I did not take the class.

[RD64]

To maximize profits they have actually three options.

 

1) Increase revenue from base fares or onboard spending.

 

2) Reduce costs

 

3) A combination of the two

 

Increasing base fares is not really an option as passengers would be against even the most incremental fare increase. This is why the cruise industry does not include tips in the base fare - it increases the overall cost, even though so many claim that they always pay their gratuities. Therefore they must generate extra revenue from bar sales, excursions, etc.

 

At the end of the day, if revenue is stagnant, the only way to increase profitability is through cost reductions - and as previously noted by others - a snip here, a snip there - and hopefully people will complain for a day or two, others will proudly state it doesn’t affect them and life will go on.

 

I am still waiting thirteen years later for my complimentary after dinner espresso to make a return appearance.

 

[RD64]

In theory they could reduce their cruise fares further but to what advantage. The lower fares might attract more passengers, but will also increase their variable costs. Ideally you want to cover your variable costs and contribute as much as possible to your  fixed costs. 

 

If the new passengers come on board and do not spend anything then it is not beneficial to Carnival. Without a doubt Carnival has computer models and algorithms aplenty which help them determine the optimal pricing - this is when Calculus and derivatives comes in useful.

[BlerkOne]

The free espresso and cappuccino changed when Carnival upgrade both the machines and coffee used (allegedly). Are there any cruise lines that still give it away?

 

Of course, loan repayment is a big chunk of costs 

[Indytraveler83]

I always find it sorta funny how these "cutback" threads bring out the anger.  

 

Carnival has been moving in the direction of for fee offerings and limiting dining hours for some time.  

 

Often it's forgotten what's been added.  I frequent the boards, but was pleasantly surprised to see all of the additional free food offerings on my Carnival Horizon cruise, including the salad bar in the Serenity area.  No one had huge positive reactions to things like that.

 

Carnival isn't just cutting back.  Carnival is changing (quickly I might add).  The Vista class and newer are a massive departure from the Carnival of old, offering a far different experience.  

 

Carnival is CHANGING.  It's totally ok to not like it, that's the freedom of choice that we have.  But this narrative that it's only removing things is a little tiring.  Guys Burgers, Shaq's Chicken, Pig and Anchor, nice water slides and free comedy shows weren't a part of the Carnival of old.  

Edited August 11, 2022 by Indytraveler83

[cruisingguy007]

28 minutes ago, RD64 said:

This is why the cruise industry does not include tips in the base fare - it increases the overall cost, even though so many claim that they always pay their gratuities.

 

The problem here is it only encourages others to remove their auto grats, they could probably lower them if they made them mandatory or figured out a scheme to make them "technically" voluntary but arrange it in such a way as to be disadvantageous if not paid, a deposit scheme for points and each cruise moving forward is a re-deposit or something like that, heck, even a discount reward for pre-paying gratuities on drink packages, excursions and spa service bundles, that could drive sales also. The point is, the people that don't pay them get a huge cruise discount (especially large groups) over the people that do pay them, and are being subsidized by the people who pay. Basic instinct will eventually kick in and people will wonder why they bother paying if others don't, no one wants to feel like a sucker.   

Edited August 11, 2022 by cruisingguy007

[BlerkOne]

31 minutes ago, RD64 said:

 why the cruise industry does not include tips in the base fare - it increases the overall cost, even though so many claim that they always pay their gratuities.

Most cruise lines don't include tips because it puts them at a competitive disadvantage on price against cruise lines that don't. Many cruisers only look at their cost, not what is included.

 

Another reason is that it destroys all incentive for staff who then know in advance what their compensation will be. 

[notscb]

1 hour ago, RD64 said:

not just earn a profit but to MAXIMIZE that profit.

 

Not to mention this is their primary responsibility to their shareholders.

Excellent points and addition to the discussion.

Edited August 11, 2022 by notscb

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, RD64 said:

From an Accounting / Economics viewpoint….

 

Carnival is a business - they are in business to earn a profit - not just earn a profit but to MAXIMIZE that profit.

 

How does Carnival do that? Initially it has to ensure that at a minimum all costs are covered. There are fixed costs - insurance, depreciation, shoreside expenses, certain staff costs, and fuel that must be paid regardless whether one passenger or 5000 passengers sail. The more passengers that sail, the lower will be the fixed cost per passenger which is a good thing.

 

Then there are the variable costs - costs that vary based on the number of passengers that sail. This would primarily be labour (cabin and dining room stewards), and food.

 

Carnival must strike a balance in setting base fares that cover both the fixed and variable costs. 
 

By the sounds of this thread, there are many that want good 24/7, want an ext3nded brunch, want shrimp and lobster, and the oppty to eat ten pieces of filet mignonette at the brunch. However this cannot be done - and be fiscally responsible to shareholders - at the bargain rates we have seen lately. Carnival cannot increase the base rate as people will balk at a $10 increase, and play the I do not want to subsidize everyone else’s cruise because I do not eat shrimp card.

This now brings up the concept of Marginal (Additional) Cost and Revenue. For a business, those items which incur an additional or marginal cost or only worth offering to the public if there is marginal (additional) revenue to cover those costs. Is there any additional revenue being generated from extending the brunch to 1PM or offering filet mignon? No! Then from a profit maximization standpoint best to reduce / eliminate.

 

Late night food offerings? Room service? Tea time? These entail extra costs for labour and food? Any extra revenue generated? No! Then they can be eliminated or reduced. Many years ago - think 2009 - Carnival used to offer free espresso and cappuccino in the dining room - yes free - not a dime to be paid in addition. This disappeared of course, because why offer it for free when people will pay for it. Now I can hear the “ I never eat in the main dining room” and the “ it doesn’t affect me because I don’t drink espresso” crowd, but just another taken for granted perk that went the way of the dodo never to return.

 

Alcohol sales? Shore Excursions? Bolt? Photographs? Specialty Dining? Is there a marginal cost to Carnival to offer these items? Hella Yes! However there is also the marginal revenue to offset them - and definitely earn a profit. These boards are filled with people who pride themselves on getting aboard and never spending another dime. Sorry but despite your loyalty you are not who Carnival wants on board. They want the newbies that get on board and spend freely. 
 

All of those billion dollar new builds are not going to pay for themselves on cruise fares alone. Since Carnival cannot reduce fares, it’s only other option to maximize profits is to reduce costs. 
 

Quite simply Accounting / Economics 101

 

 

 

Why can't Carnival reduce fares?

[Old Fart Cruisers]

36 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Why can't Carnival reduce fares?

[CruizinSusan70]

9 hours ago, Lane Hog said:

 

Yeah, that's outdated info.  On our February RCL cruise, Sorrento's closed at 0300 and didn't re-open until 1100 or so.

So, they now have something in common with Carnival reducing their pizza availability.  Still have 24 hour eats on NCL and Princess and post 10:00 pm on Celebrity.

[DallasGuy75219]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:09 PM, BlerkOne said:

Oh, that's right, many gamblers are already cruising for free.

Cruising for free because Carnival has cut back on and cheapened the experience to the point that I (and apparently others) will no longer pay for it, except by "pre-paying" for future cruises by gambling in the casino.

[Lane Hog]

I don't know that 24 hour access to food would be a tie-breaker for me, but it sure is a nice to have option.

 

Like it or not, unbundling won't stop.  

I fully expect one of the mainstream lines to move and make the buffet the only "included" option for meals, and for the MDR go away or become an upsell.

If there was an OBC or discount on the base fare to do things like carry your own bags on/off or to opt out of daily steward service, I'm sure there are people would give both up without thinking twice about it.  Both would reduce cost without materially impacting the cruise experience for many.

People joke about reserving deck chairs, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that happen.  Even our public pool is offering cabanas on a 2-4 hour rental.  

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Lane Hog