Did P&O Order the Wrong Ships?

[Yorkypete]

8 hours ago, glynboy said:

Prior to covid they were making annual profits in excess of $3bn, so they obviously did know what they were doing !

So if they declare a profit it must be very good accounting as their debt has increased before covid and is continuing to climb.

[Yorkypete]

13 hours ago, Britboys said:

Prior to Covid they were making a healthy profit and no doubt they will again in the future.

    The following is the Nasdaq report on Carnival  in July this year.                                                                                                                                                                                        Down around 88% from its all-time high and 67% off its 52-week high, Carnival faces a potential economic downturn, which may coincide with a resurgence of COVID-19. With BA.4 and BA.5 variants of Omicron threatening to cause an outbreak over the coming months, it's unlikely to be smooth sailing for the cruise lines in the second half. Even if the market finds its footing, Carnival's heavy debt load could ultimately sink it.

[funinhounslow]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:37 AM, Solent Richard said:

Pretty Spot on there. When it comes to profit the Carnival boys know what they are doing.

So why were their shares on a downward trajectory even before Covid? 

 

[emam]

Could be all the new ships they bought.

Edited August 13, 2022 by emam

[Solent Richard]

21 hours ago, funinhounslow said:

So why were their shares on a downward trajectory even before Covid? 

 

 

I wonder why it hasn't occurred to anyone that the 'Share' price is currently reflective of the fact dividends are currently not being paid?

 

Answers on a postcard please. 😀

[majortom10]

Think it will be a long time before Carnival start paying dividends on their shares.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

Think it will be a long time before Carnival start paying dividends on their shares.

As long as they keep giving us shareholder OBC, I dont really care about the dividend.

[funinhounslow]

6 hours ago, Solent Richard said:

 

I wonder why it hasn't occurred to anyone that the 'Share' price is currently reflective of the fact dividends are currently not being paid?

 

Answers on a postcard please. 😀

Covid, double digit inflation, energy crisis means cruising is the last thing on many people’s minds at the moment.

 

Venice increasingly off limits to cruise ships and I’m sure they won’t be the only port to decide enough is enough…
 

And Carnival are literally billions in debt. 
 

I’d say the lack of dividends were the least of a Carnival shareholder’s worries. 
 

Plus as the chart above shows the shares were falling for years before Covid hit. Care to hazard a guess as to why that might be…?

[jimbo1683]

On 8/5/2022 at 4:05 PM, terrierjohn said:

Most of what you say make sense, however I think P&O have made a big mistake by not putting water slides on Arvia. As she will winter in the Caribbean and spend her summers mainly in the Med, this would have been a very sensible option.

Similarly if Azura is going to be in the Med all summer and Canaries in winter, she would be an ideal candidate for water slides, and could benefit from a major refit like RCIs Independence of the seas did.

Waterslides will actively turn some potential customers away (me). Presumably RC have this market well covered so P&O are offering an alternative.

[jimbo1683]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:30 PM, Windsurfboy said:

 just to be contentious the carbon footprint of a pet dog is same as a small car, never heard a word said about dogs, thats because holidays are easy pickings. 

 

 

Children more so...

[terrierjohn]

38 minutes ago, jimbo1683 said:

Waterslides will actively turn some potential customers away (me). Presumably RC have this market well covered so P&O are offering an alternative.

Out of interest why would water slides turn you off?  They are set way up on the top decks, with a seperate end pool which is nowhere near the swimming pools, and because they loop around existing superstructure they don't impact on any other features of the ship. 

[jimbo1683]

41 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Out of interest why would water slides turn you off?  They are set way up on the top decks, with a seperate end pool which is nowhere near the swimming pools, and because they loop around existing superstructure they don't impact on any other features of the ship. 

Because it indicates that the target market skews heavily to families and young adults. I hope they enjoy it but it indicates an environment I don't wish to holiday in.

[Yorkypete]

2 hours ago, jimbo1683 said:

Waterslides will actively turn some potential customers away (me). Presumably RC have this market well covered so P&O are offering an alternative.

And pray tell what IS the alternative they are supplying? apart from crew based entertainment .Their shows and entertainment do not have the oomph of other cruise liners and their food is a little bland unless you want to pay extra.

[FangedRose]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Out of interest why would water slides turn you off?  They are set way up on the top decks, with a seperate end pool which is nowhere near the swimming pools, and because they loop around existing superstructure they don't impact on any other features of the ship. 

Because you are paying for them in your cruise fare, and will never use them. And, they are taking space that could be used for something which you may use. And, as said earlier,  it indicates the clientele they are aiming for.

[Bazrat]

Just out of interest to those who have been on RC with waterslides, do you still get the same amount of deckchair space, we like trying different areas of the ship every day weather permitting.

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, jimbo1683 said:

Because it indicates that the target market skews heavily to families and young adults. I hope they enjoy it but it indicates an environment I don't wish to holiday in.

Maybe on these ships the disliked young adults, plus many other ones less unpleasant,  will all migrate to the water flumes, leaving you to enjoy the pool deck in solitary splendour.😆

[zap99]

2 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Just out of interest to those who have been on RC with waterslides, do you still get the same amount of deckchair space, we like trying different areas of the ship every day weather permitting.

Not much time for sunbeds. Waterslide, dodgems, quick lunch in Johnny Rockets........repeat.

[jimbo1683]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Maybe on these ships the disliked young adults, plus many other ones less unpleasant,  will all migrate to the water flumes, leaving you to enjoy the pool deck in solitary splendour.😆

Who said anything about them being disliked? There's nothing wrong with different people wanting different experiences. I very much doubt you'd enjoy coming on an Atlantis cruise with me.

[Britboys]

7 minutes ago, jimbo1683 said:

Who said anything about them being disliked? There's nothing wrong with different people wanting different experiences. I very much doubt you'd enjoy coming on an Atlantis cruise with me.

But you never know jimbo......😄

[Yorkypete]

3 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Just out of interest to those who have been on RC with waterslides, do you still get the same amount of deckchair space, we like trying different areas of the ship every day weather permitting.

Yes. I found the RC had much better spaces and the water slides did not get in the way. My first few cruises were on RC ships and it was only about 5 years ago I tried P&O. I liked Britannia but it was not a patch on Indy which is still my favourite vessel. The crazy golf and  other deck games were widely used by all ages and the sprinkles ice cream(free in 3 flavours) was brilliant. The deck space was much bigger than the P&O ships and the entertainment was by such as the Jersey Boys and Grease stage casts not crew members.Other acts came on for a couple of ports and then changed. . We are on Britannia to the Baltic shortly and apart from one in 2024 it will possibly be our last on P&O.

 

[molecrochip]

13 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

As long as they keep giving us shareholder OBC, I dont really care about the dividend.

Very true for those of us holding a small number such as 100 or 1000. But those institutional investors who hold millions of shares wont necessarily be seeing it that way. They will view the shares as worth less until their dividends return.

10 hours ago, funinhounslow said:

Covid, double digit inflation, energy crisis means cruising is the last thing on many people’s minds at the moment.

 

Venice increasingly off limits to cruise ships and I’m sure they won’t be the only port to decide enough is enough…
 

And Carnival are literally billions in debt. 
 

I’d say the lack of dividends were the least of a Carnival shareholder’s worries. 
 

Plus as the chart above shows the shares were falling for years before Covid hit. Care to hazard a guess as to why that might be…?

In the couple of years leading up to the pandemic, Carnival were having a tough time with the US courts over environmental matters and US regulators generally. Some of this was industry wide but some was Carnival specific.

Add to this that the world was starting to mute concerns about ships and their impact of the environment, Venice and Norway in particular and Trump restricting access to Cuba again.

 

Its therefore not a surprise that the share price had tracked back from its all time peak. Carnival was viewed as a solid hold, with a buying leaning, at the pre pandemic prices. 

[funinhounslow]

4 hours ago, molecrochip said:

, Carnival were having a tough time with the US courts over environmental matters and US regulators generally. 

Yes they were fined for repeatedly dumping raw sewage into the sea weren’t they?

 

Let’s hope the “Carnival boys” have a better grip on their obligations to minimise their impact on the environment…

Edited August 15, 2022 by funinhounslow

[Bazrat]

8 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

Yes. I found the RC had much better spaces and the water slides did not get in the way. My first few cruises were on RC ships and it was only about 5 years ago I tried P&O. I liked Britannia but it was not a patch on Indy which is still my favourite vessel. The crazy golf and  other deck games were widely used by all ages and the sprinkles ice cream(free in 3 flavours) was brilliant. The deck space was much bigger than the P&O ships and the entertainment was by such as the Jersey Boys and Grease stage casts not crew members.Other acts came on for a couple of ports and then changed. . We are on Britannia to the Baltic shortly and apart from one in 2024 it will possibly be our last on P&O.

 

Just checked out some videos of deck space on  one of the RC ships no way as much as P&O ships even one of the bloggers mentioned the fact.

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Just checked out some videos of deck space on  one of the RC ships no way as much as P&O ships even one of the bloggers mentioned the fact.

Well it must be all the other types of entertainment then that ensures there is always plenty of sun loungers available. Maybe before she is finished P&O could fit a couple of flumes to Arvia, then we can see if my theory is correct.

[Britboys]

24 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Well it must be all the other types of entertainment then that ensures there is always plenty of sun loungers available. Maybe before she is finished P&O could fit a couple of flumes to Arvia, then we can see if my theory is correct.

I guess it may also depend on the number of non-British pax onboard. We British often seem keener on lying out in the sun than some other nations, especially perhaps Americans.