Did P&O Order the Wrong Ships?

[Megabear2]

8 hours ago, Britboys said:

She is based on the HAL Pinnacle Class template. Of course, Elizabeth and Victoria are based on the Vista Class, 

I was actually referring to lack of choice if you want something not already available.  Your comment confirms exactly what I meant and also why the chances of getting smaller ships are fewer due to cost.  The market wants big so that's what's there at this time.  Anything small would assumedly be off the cuff and far more expensive as a result. A bit like there's only one Queen Mary 2 and the vast cost involved to create her.

 

 

[Bazrat]

16 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think I have seen a rendition of Arvia's Skydome area with a big screen in it?

Hope so we are on her next October TA

[BouncingWheel]

14 hours ago, FangedRose said:

Or, carve out your niche and aim at a particular section of the market. Which is where P&O are getting a bit lost. They are not sure what they are aiming for. Apart from being British.

Being British. Being cheaper than RCL etc.... for cruise price and onboard drinks etc.. Being great for very young families (ones not yet ready for RCL type activities but the Nursery and splashers have always had great reviews). That is the P&O market as I see it. 

 

In addition, with cheap pricing, good entertainment and extra little things like Silent Disco they have consistently proved that they can rake in the money with short "booze" cruises to places like Amsterdam as partying Brits don't need all the RCL extras. 

 

I think that niche policy would work except I am not sure they will be able to easily fill the bigger ships on longer voyagers outside holiday season but if they only need 40% and the price is right then I am sure they will manage. 

[jeanlyon]

I think we will be going to Fred, albeit on some of his more different cruises and only doing one a year.  The Covid thing has got us doing other things and the big ships will never be for us.

[gsmt47471015]

1 hour ago, jeanlyon said:

I think we will be going to Fred, albeit on some of his more different cruises and only doing one a year.  The Covid thing has got us doing other things and the big ships will never be for us.

Have nothing against the bigger ships ,its just they need to appeal to families to fill them ,and with that comes obvious problems,  but we enjoyed Iona as a ship ,it was some of the pax that were the issue, we have Arcadia , Aurora, Azura and Arcadia as our next P and O cruises, so the majority are adults only

[majortom10]

I dont have a problem with big ships as long as they are not too big. Britannia is our favourite P&O ship and we sail on Iona next March so I will reserve judgement on her. Our most favourite ship of all cruise lines is QM2 fairly large but with plenty of room inside and very elegant.

[Marmaduke]

When Ventura was new we were invited as loyalty club members to lunch on board and a tour of the ship.  There were numerous new attractions onboard to temp the family market,  a Scalelextric(?) model car racing track, a rock school for kids to learn musical instruments, opportunities to learn circus skills, two giant tampolines on deck 19 and Noddy was onboard for the smaller children.  Within five years I think all of these attractions had been axed, which seems to point to the fact that P & O cruisers and not really interested in gimmicks.

 

 

 

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, Marmaduke said:

When Ventura was new we were invited as loyalty club members to lunch on board and a tour of the ship.  There were numerous new attractions onboard to temp the family market,  a Scalelextric(?) model car racing track, a rock school for kids to learn musical instruments, opportunities to learn circus skills, two giant tampolines on deck 19 and Noddy was onboard for the smaller children.  Within five years I think all of these attractions had been axed, which seems to point to the fact that P & O cruisers and not really interested in gimmicks.

 

 

 

Or maybe P&O just chose the wrong gimmicks.

[JDB78]

Just now, terrierjohn said:

Or maybe P&O just chose the wrong gimmicks.

Yes, I think that's more likely. Water parks are a proven attraction around the world - scalextrix? Maybe 30 years ago? How many UK children want to spend a holiday learning musical instrument?

 

For me, given what was on Ventura compared to RC's Independence. I would settle for a decent sized sports court, a big outdoor screen and a water slide or 2.

 

Rock climbing - done it once, no incentive to do it again. Ice skating + the Flo-rider surfing - again did it once and wasn't really that bothered about doing it over and over to learn how to skate / surf. The ice rink doubled up as a lazer tag facility which was very popular. Think son would have spent far too much of the holiday playing lazer tag if we'd let him.

 

Think P&O just need to find a balance between gimmicks and genuine facilities that would get used. Crazy golf was always popular on the Indy, so glad there seems to be a course on Arvia. Will probably only play a couple of times but still something to do early evening to pass the time.

[Yorkypete]

9 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I was actually referring to lack of choice if you want something not already available.  Your comment confirms exactly what I meant and also why the chances of getting smaller ships are fewer due to cost.  The market wants big so that's what's there at this time.  Anything small would assumedly be off the cuff and far more expensive as a result. A bit like there's only one Queen Mary 2 and the vast cost involved to create her.

 

 

I was wondering if anyone in the procurement dept. of P&O has been dismissed yet? I am asking because Moley and others have said that Iona was built for the Norway cruises. If this is the case then it is patently unsuitable for this type of cruise as it cannot visit some ports due to size/weather problems. Did anyone from P&O even test the suitability beforehand? If so it must be down to incompetence or lack of caring. In any other walk of life this would result in sackings. Perhaps P&O could swap ships around a little ...or would this be too much trouble?

[Happy afloat]

22 minutes ago, Aldousmo said:

We are going on a family holiday on Ventura not looking forward to it at aal will be our last trip with P&O 

Sorry to hear that. Can I ask what has happened between you booking the cruise and now to make you feel like this?

[FamilyCruiserUK]

23 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

The flowrider is free on RCI unless you pay for a private lesson, also free are  the water slides, rock climbing, bumper cars, sky diving, carousel rides, ice skating, the ultimate abyss, zip lining. 

The cruise price may be higher but pre covid Indy always sailed full, so many Brits were prepared to pay extra for something that was a bit special compared to P&O.

 

Indie was our first RCL ship out of Southampton. What we loved about it was on sea days there was more to do then just sunbathing. As UK cruises tend to have more sea days when heading down to the Carnaries or the Med, more activities  are a god send esp for families. Also means you dont have kids crammed around the pool all day. 

Also on RCL, space is limited however on port days lots of the activities are free, ifly, surfing, rock climbing, zip lines, slides. Which is good, as not many children want to go ashore. 

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, Aldousmo said:

I agreed on a compromise so we could do a family holiday we had past cruise credit to use I hate the huge ships 

 

Doesn't sound like much of a family holiday if you're going to hate it. Hopefully better than you think and you can enjoy your family time.  The ship probably won't seem so important if you are all having a good time together.  

[emam]

People keep talking about P&O being like Butlins at sea. From what I have seen of RCI (vlogs only), they are even more like Butlins than P&O are. There was a lot of complaints about having to pay tips onboard P&O (sorry for mentioning those) and so they incorporated them into the fayre. Some people like to buy the drinks package so that they don't have a big bill at the end of their cruise, so I can't see many people wanting to pay extra to use amusements.  As moley said sunbathing around the pool is popular with us Brits,

 

It's been mentioned about a lot of kids around the pool and that extra slides would be better.  Is this because the kids clubs aren't yet back to what they were BC. It's also to be expected when taking a holiday when the schools are off. It would be the same anywhere. 

 

Though I'm not as well travelled as some of you I know enough that most Brits go on holiday to relax, with some people spending many hours around a pool during the day and then going for some drinks on the night. 

 

I'm sure most people know when going on a cruise with P&O that they don't have the amusements that other lines do. Those that want them will pay the higher cruise price, the onboard tips, higher drinks prices plus surcharges, extra to use the slides, riders etc with another line. Their holiday may be the only one of the year. Not all but most of P&O's cruisers take several holidays a year or longer ones. I can't see that adding slides etc would be a benefit to P&O

 

I have been watching some vlogs from a RCI crew member. He does some tours of the ship on a port day. Most of the amusements were closed, flo rider was turned off.

[gsmt47471015]

8 hours ago, JDB78 said:

Exactly, although I love cruising, in the past the kids have enjoyed a good old fashioned uk pontins type holiday. No lobster being served, certainly no turndown service but if i know the kids are having a good time, then job done.

 

Feel a bit sorry for Aldousmo's family tbh. Sounds like he / she has lost sight of what a family holiday or any holiday is supposed to be about. Obviously very upset with P&O and determined to make sure they have a rubbish time - just to prove themselves right. As a child I did everything from caravans, tents, Disney, Spanish resorts etc. Isn't it more about making memories and spending time together? Don't worry about what you can't change, you only get one chance at life, may as well make the most of it? Or you could just go, be miserable and make sure everyone knows you're miserable and let it affect everyone else?

When I was growing up we never ,ever had a holiday, it was something you just accepted as my parents couldn't afford it , when we had our children we did go on family holidays and we had such good times and have many happy memories of them. Now we usually holiday as a couple but on the odd occasion they have travelled with us and it has been just as enjoyable as it always was. It would appear that Aldousmo's gripe is more with P and O or Ventura than anything else, however don't let it spoil what should be a pleasure 

[Megabear2]

At the end of the day we all want different things from a holiday.  As someone who never had one until I was 23  (a prize won by my new husband in a work competition) even a week in a caravan at Leysdown sounded like a huge treat when my friends at school talked about it. 

 

I never had children and after I had the good fortune to recover against expectations from cancer at 38 holidays became my lifeline when a lot of other pleasures were stopped. Life moved on thankfully and after becoming unofficial carer to my parents these holidays started to take them in and became different - cruises with my mother became very dominant. My mum left the UK for her first real holiday on her 80th birthday for a trip on the QE2 to the Canaries.  She was a child in a sweet shop after that.  

 

Absolutely nothing would coerce me to go on a holiday I wasn't going to enjoy it.  I feel very sorry for Aldousmo that their holiday looks like a chore rather than a joy.  The real problem for them is they like small ships and cruise lines have very few that aren't adult only,  a difficult conundrum.  This forum is littered with people saying they want small adult ships and here we have someone who wants a small family ship.  You clearly can't please all of the people ...

 

 

 

 

[jeanlyon]

My original idea of cruising was to be on a ship and go to some different places.  For the first 5-6 years that's how it was.  Now it seems the ships (the bigger ones) are more like theme parks, so it's almost not necessary to get off.

 

I love sitting on the Prom Deck on Aurora with my feet on the rail watching the sea go by.  So the big ones are just not like that any more.

 

Will see what Fred's new ones are like.

[Gettingwarmer]

2 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

My original idea of cruising was to be on a ship and go to some different places.  For the first 5-6 years that's how it was.  Now it seems the ships (the bigger ones) are more like theme parks, so it's almost not necessary to get off.

 

I love sitting on the Prom Deck on Aurora with my feet on the rail watching the sea go by.  So the big ones are just not like that any more.

 

Will see what Fred's new ones are like.

You can still do that on the Grand class ships, just don’t venture uptop on the pool decks. No Crows Nest though. 

[majortom10]

17 hours ago, Marmaduke said:

When Ventura was new we were invited as loyalty club members to lunch on board and a tour of the ship.  There were numerous new attractions onboard to temp the family market,  a Scalelextric(?) model car racing track, a rock school for kids to learn musical instruments, opportunities to learn circus skills, two giant tampolines on deck 19 and Noddy was onboard for the smaller children.  Within five years I think all of these attractions had been axed, which seems to point to the fact that P & O cruisers and not really interested in gimmicks.

 

 

 

We were on Ventura maiden cruise and was so disappointed with the hype over the Scalextric pre cruise. Turned out to be a set which looked as if they had bought it from Argos on a table on dance floor of show lounge at the aft of the ship.

 

 

 

[Britboys]

18 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

I was wondering if anyone in the procurement dept. of P&O has been dismissed yet? I am asking because Moley and others have said that Iona was built for the Norway cruises. If this is the case then it is patently unsuitable for this type of cruise as it cannot visit some ports due to size/weather problems. Did anyone from P&O even test the suitability beforehand? If so it must be down to incompetence or lack of caring. In any other walk of life this would result in sackings. Perhaps P&O could swap ships around a little ...or would this be too much trouble?

Not really down to procurement. As has been previously mentioned, Carnival Corp wanted P&O to expand and they didn't really have a choice of ship - Excel Class was all that was available to them.

With limited availability of LNG around Europe, I expect there was a very limited choice of no-fly 7-night itineraries.

I do however completely agree that someone totally cocked-up with Geiranger....

[bobstheboy]

On 8/6/2022 at 12:15 PM, jeanlyon said:

I think we will be going to Fred, albeit on some of his more different cruises and only doing one a year.  The Covid thing has got us doing other things and the big ships will never be for us.

We have cruised once with Fred, on Balmoral to Canaries. Hated the ship, no atmosphere and there was a husband and wife team for help, they must have been 80, and I was 70 at the time. It looked dated and the average age of the passengers was 75 +, I got told off for talking too loud to other passengers on the pool deck by a lady wanting quiet whilst she read ! Never again.

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, bobstheboy said:

We have cruised once with Fred, on Balmoral to Canaries. Hated the ship, no atmosphere and there was a husband and wife team for help, they must have been 80, and I was 70 at the time. It looked dated and the average age of the passengers was 75 +, I got told off for talking too loud to other passengers on the pool deck by a lady wanting quiet whilst she read ! Never again.

I think I would have been inclined to suggest she went to the library if she needed quiet to be able to read 🤫.

Fortunately there are ships out there for all of us. I'd book Fred Olsen above Azura, Ventura, Iona or Arvia any day but others would think I'm mad for doing that. I will try Britannia one day but doubt I would ever do more than a week on her.

[bobstheboy]

2 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I think I would have been inclined to suggest she went to the library if she needed quiet to be able to read 🤫.

Fortunately there are ships out there for all of us. I'd book Fred Olsen above Azura, Ventura, Iona or Arvia any day but others would think I'm mad for doing that. I will try Britannia one day but doubt I would ever do more than a week on her.

That is exactly what I said to her !

[LondonLad60]

2 hours ago, bobstheboy said:

We have cruised once with Fred, on Balmoral to Canaries. Hated the ship, no atmosphere and there was a husband and wife team for help, they must have been 80, and I was 70 at the time. It looked dated and the average age of the passengers was 75 +, I got told off for talking too loud to other passengers on the pool deck by a lady wanting quiet whilst she read ! Never again.

Our daughter cruised with Fred a few years ago and she said the ship (Balmoral) looked and smelled like an old peoples home. When my wife and I were looking for an alternative to P&O (pre pandemic) we did consider Fred briefly, but what our daughter told us, combined with the fact that on Fred's ships smoking is allowed on cabin balconies put us off completely.

[majortom10]

5 hours ago, Aldousmo said:

For this cruise the customer service has been dire they just dont reply its been so frustrating this also part of my reasoning We have noticed so much being trimmed back from the days we first cruised You have to pay a charge now for so many things which were included some they have just removed. 

Dont know how long you have been cruising but I agree that you now have to pay a charge for many things but the choice is yours you dont have to pay them and cruising is now a lot cheaper than what it was when I first started. Our first ever cruise was on QE2 in 1997 and we booked the cheapest lowest grade cabin on the ship and it was over £100pppn, yes you got a lot more for your buck i.e. fantastic midnight buffets but does anyone really need the midnight buffets as they were in those days. Our first cruise on P&O was Aurora maiden in inside cabin and also remember an Arcadia cruise in in side cabin which was very expensive compared to todays prices for inside cabin.

Edited August 7, 2022 by majortom10