Narrowed to two: Holland 7-Day Alaska Explorer vs. Princess 7-Day Inside Passage

[bchandler02]

I think we have narrowed it down to these two choices. Looking for feedback on them to help make the final decision. The prices work out to be so close that price is not a factor. We want to see scenery during the day while cruising and do a fair amount of drinking, meals have to be decent but we aren't super picky. We don't spend much time in rooms unless sleeping so either should be fine. The majority of the group is used to (and satisfied with) Carnival for comparison, though some of us have been on other lines too. None are big on dressing up and will do the minimum required for the formal nights if not eating at the buffet, but being formal isn't in our interests. Holland's "Have It All" package looks to be the superior value of the two based on what is included when compared to Princess Plus. 

 

• Itinerary:
  • Ports: The difference looks to be Sitka vs Skagway. I know Sitka requires a tender, not a big deal. Skagway has the railroad which may be a good excursion. 
    • Holland: Seattle, Juneau, Sitka, Ketchikan, Victoria (too short to matter)
    • Princess: Ketchikan, Juneau, Skagway, Victoria (too short to matter)
  • Scenery: I am not seeing a major advantage to either - both offer some good scenery. 
    • Holland: Endicott Arm and Dawes Glacier
    • Princess: Stephens Passage, Hubbard Glacier 
  • Ship:
    • Holland - Westerdam: 1964 guests, built in 2003 https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/find-a-cruise/A3E07B/W326.html
    • Princess: Discovery Princess: 3660 guests, built 2021 https://www.princess.com/search-cruise/details/?voyageCode=X321
    • 936ft vs 1083ft but almost twice the passengers tells me Princess is likely to be more crowded? 

 

Other thoughts I've noticed so far - not sure how much any of these matter yet. 

• Princess allows only one person in the room to buy the drinks package. I think most of us will do the "all-in" options and eliminate this, but it may be a slight advantage for Princess if we have any cabins where 1 wants it but 1 doesn't. 
• Holland looks to be a slightly older crowd with less activity at night, but as long as a bar is open until midnight or so everyone will be happy. Our ages range from 30-75 in this group. The less small children, the better. Princess looks to be a little more lively. 
• The Princess Medallion app looks more advanced - it sounds like you can track others in your group. Otherwise, they look similar. 
• The Holland rooms include the couch area, which is nice but rarely used.
• I believe Princess has the enclosed pool, which may be good for an Alaskan itinerary. 

 

 

Any thoughts on all of this and which one we may prefer, and why? From what I am seeing each have pros and cons but neither is a clear winner over the other. 

 

Thanks! 

[CruiserBruce]

Holland America has an enclosed pool on ALL of their ships. HAL doesn't have anything like the Princess Medallion program. Probably fewer children on HAL, but there can be lots of children on both in Alaska.

 

Skagway's rail trip is limited right now, but if you are looking at next year, who knows what the train will be doing then.

[Coral]

I think many itineraries in Alaska have an older group compared to Caribbean, etc....

 

I don't think the Princess Medallion is anything special and would not factor that into a decision.

 

I can't compare Have it All to Princess Plus package.

 

HAL and Princess are run by the same organization in Alaska.

 

I prefer Hubbard Glacier to Endicott Arm though Hubbard can be blocked early in the season.

 

As mentioned, Skagway is having issues right now with the train and it is running only a certain distance.

 

I don't know about indoor pool on Discovery Princess (if it exists or not).

[Northern Aurora]

Just some random thoughts from someone who lives in Alaska.

 

When comparing itineraries also compare the times in port.

 

I am not a Princess expert, but my impression is that the Discovery Princess has used the forward berth at the Rail Road dock in Skagway.  A Princess expert will be able to provide accurate information.  Skagway experienced a rock slide in June 2022 which impacted the forward berth of the RR dock.  Ships have been docking at the aft berth of the RR dock and tendering passengers to the Skagway small boat harbor.  Ships haven't been docking at the forward RR dock at all.  It is appearing likely that the potential for what is described as a potential major slide from an earlier rock slide will mean that this situation will not be a quick fix.

 

Since the cruise terminal was constructed a number of years ago north of downtown Sitka I am not aware  of any ships tendering in Sitka.  

 

All Alaska itineraries tend to attract multiple-generational family groups.  And dress is very casual on Alaska itineraries too.

[Coral]

9 minutes ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

 

I am not a Princess expert, but my impression is that the Discovery Princess has used the forward berth at the Rail Road dock in Skagway.  A Princess expert will be able to provide accurate information.  Skagway experienced a rock slide in June 2022 which impacted the forward berth of the RR dock.  Ships have been docking at the aft berth of the RR dock and tendering passengers to the Skagway small boat harbor.  Ships haven't been docking at the forward RR dock at all.  It is appearing likely that the potential for what is described as a potential major slide from an earlier rock slide will mean that this situation will not be a quick fix.

 

Obviously they are looking at next year I assume - let me know if I am wrong. I have not heard on how long it will take to fix the dock where the rock slide was. Have you heard anything? I know it is affecting ships sailing this year.

[tetleytea]

If this is your only trip to Alaska, then pick Skagway over Sitka.  If you take many trips to Alaska, then it's Sitka over Skagway.   Sailing on a newer cruise ship matters.  And Hubbard glacier is better than Dawes.  I'd go with Discovery Princess.   

[Northern Aurora]

5 hours ago, Coral said:

Obviously they are looking at next year I assume - let me know if I am wrong. I have not heard on how long it will take to fix the dock where the rock slide was. Have you heard anything? I know it is affecting ships sailing this year.

 

Coral:  My husband and I have both read the Shannon and Wilson report regarding the problematic rock face adjacent to the Rail Road dock.  He is a geologist and I am not.

 

While the south slide at the Rail Road dock was more recent the Shannon and Wilson report is expressing great concerns about the stability of earlier north face slide.   We have read reports on the Anchorage Daily News (we subscribe electronically) and have listened to news reports on the Alaska Public Radio.   The Skagway mayor is desperate for funding.  He is asking (begging and praying) for emergency funding to develop a remediation plan.  This definitely will be an issue which exists longer than the remaining 2022 season and I will be surprised if it doesn't impact the 2023 Skagway cruise ship schedule as well.  It is clear that this may not be a simple fix.  That is an understatement for those who have read the Shannon and Wilson report.

 

 

And I differ in opinion with @tetleytea.  I remember what Skagway was like in the early to mid 1980s.  I now find it too touristy for my taste although they have wonderful quilt shop and two great craft breweries.  Unless you have folks in your party who are historic train fanatics I would take the Sitka over Skagway.  Sitka offers the Sitka National Historical Park (historic collection of totems), the Fortress of the Bears, the Alaska Raptor Center and more.

 

[Coral]

5 hours ago, tetleytea said:

If this is your only trip to Alaska, then pick Skagway over Sitka.  If you take many trips to Alaska, then it's Sitka over Skagway.   Sailing on a newer cruise ship matters.  And Hubbard glacier is better than Dawes.  I'd go with Discovery Princess.   

I tend to go towards the older ships but that is just me.

[Coral]

4 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

Coral:  My husband and I have both read the Shannon and Wilson report regarding the problematic rock face adjacent to the Rail Road dock.  He is a geologist and I am not.

 

While the south slide at the Rail Road dock was more recent the Shannon and Wilson report is expressing great concerns about the stability of earlier north face slide.   We have read reports on the Anchorage Daily News (we subscribe electronically) and have listened to news reports on the Alaska Public Radio.   The Skagway mayor is desperate for funding.  He is asking (begging and praying) for emergency funding to develop a remediation plan.  This definitely will be an issue which exists longer than the remaining 2022 season and I will be surprised if it doesn't impact the 2023 Skagway cruise ship schedule as well.  It is clear that this may not be a simple fix.  That is an understatement for those who have read the Shannon and Wilson report.

 

 

And I differ in opinion with @tetleytea.  I remember what Skagway was like in the early to mid 1980s.  I now find it too touristy for my taste although they have wonderful quilt shop and two great craft breweries.  Unless you have folks in your party who are historic train fanatics I would take the Sitka over Skagway.  Sitka offers the Sitka National Historical Park (historic collection of totems), the Fortress of the Bears, the Alaska Raptor Center and more.

 

Thanks. I didn't think it was going to be an easy fix - I just didn't know if they had a plan and how long it was going to take. I also wasn't sure who was responsible for paying for that - those who own the dock, the town, etc....

 

I do find downtown Skagway very touristy but I think once you get outside (assuming you can get to Canada) - I find the scenery beautiful. 

 

Thanks for the "local update".

[harryfat1]

OP must be looking at some repo cruise early/late in 2023 as I believe Discovery Princess typically doesn't do Hubbard Glacier on her usual 7 day route from Seattle.

 

We were on the Majestic Princess (same Royal class of ship as Discovery but Discovery is brand new) last week and we were diverted to Icy Strait Point instead of Skagway dur to RRF closure. Uncertain what will happen to the potential Skagway stop for next year.

 

As for "scenery comparison", I think many people on these boards will say Hubbard Glacier is better than Dawes as Hubbard is bigger at 6 miles across so it gives you a "WOW" feel.  But glacier viewing are never guaranteed in case of icy conditions when you arrive.

 

The Princess medallion itself is a nifty feature in that it automatically unlocks your cabin door and you can locate your friends using the medallion tracker.  The phone app itself is horrible.  Many times it just says "loading" and we had to restart the phone to make it work.

 

I don't believe Discovery Princess has covered indoor pool but you can double check their deck plan on Princess web page.  The Majestic Princess has it as part of the Hollywood Conservatory but she was build specifically for the colder climates of the Asian market.

 

As for ship length, you can't compare ships just by that as the bigger ships are also wider and taller to accommodate more passengers.  You need to look at various Youtube video on ship walk throughs to see if there are features on either ships that appeals to your party.

 

Here are few sample pics from our Hubbard Glacier last week:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JT1962]

I agree with Northern Aurora that Skagway is not necessarily a guarantee for next year, especially for the large ships that must use the railroad dock. Just realize if you choose the itinerary for Skagway, you still could be diverted to another port. 
 

The issue with the rockslide is going to cost “tens of millions of dollars” to correct, involves several parties having to agree (White Pass Railway, Skagway govt, Alaska state govt and probably Federal funding as well), will likely take a while to complete and I’m not sure how much their winter weather will affect the work. 
 

https://www.ktoo.org/2022/08/10/landslides-close-dock-cause-cruise-stop-cancellations-in-skagway/

There is also another issue with the Broadway and Ore docks possibly not being available next year.  The City of Skagway is taking over the management of the Broadway and Ore Docks from the White Pass Railway. White Pass is planning on taking much of the equipment needed and it will take a year to get approval and replacements so ships can dock. Hopefully they can work out their issues, but it is still a possibility those docks won’t be available in 2023.

 

https://khns.org/wpyr-closes-half-of-skagways-busiest-cruise-dock-plans-to-disable-other-docks-before-next-spring

Worst case scenario (not likely), there could be only one dock available in Skagway in 2023 - the Aft Railroad Dock, which would probably still require tenders. 
 

Best case scenario, all parties work quickly and the landslide issues are repaired, the city works with White Pass to either continue operating the Broadway and Ore Docks or pays them to leave the equipment they plan on taking so the city can operate the docks and Skagway is back to 4 berths for cruise ships. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by JT1962

[tetleytea]

23 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

And I differ in opinion with @tetleytea.  I remember what Skagway was like in the early to mid 1980s.  I now find it too touristy for my taste although they have wonderful quilt shop and two great craft breweries.  Unless you have folks in your party who are historic train fanatics I would take the Sitka over Skagway.  Sitka offers the Sitka National Historical Park (historic collection of totems), the Fortress of the Bears, the Alaska Raptor Center and more.

 

Note that by Skagway I don't mean literally Skagway.  I mean going up past the White Pass and into the Yukon--an excursion one would normally do when first visiting Skagway (or at least, the White Pass part).   If we were to compare literally the two towns, sure, Sitka is better.   But I'm comparing the port visits; not the towns.  And assuming the railroad dock and the WP railroad stuff is all worked out.

Edited August 20, 2022 by tetleytea

[bchandler02]

Thanks all. I'll take all of this into consideration. I think for now, the group is leaning towards the Holland cruise. It doesn't sound like there are any major negative points to it. 

[Dancing Shoes]

Check the dock schedule for this year at Ketchikan.  HAL always docks in town.  Norwegian docks at Ward Cove.  See if Princess was docking there too this season.  Ward Cove is far away and really cuts into port time.  I liked HAL/Volendam for its wrap around covered promenade deck.  Does the Westerdam  have one?

[Coral]

30 minutes ago, Dancing Shoes said:

Check the dock schedule for this year at Ketchikan.  HAL always docks in town.  Norwegian docks at Ward Cove.  See if Princess was docking there too this season.  Ward Cove is far away and really cuts into port time.  I liked HAL/Volendam for its wrap around covered promenade deck.  Does the Westerdam  have one?

It is only NCL that docks in Ward Cove.

[Crew News]

1 hour ago, Dancing Shoes said:

Check the dock schedule for this year at Ketchikan.  HAL always docks in town.  Norwegian docks at Ward Cove.  See if Princess was docking there too this season.  Ward Cove is far away and really cuts into port time.  I liked HAL/Volendam for its wrap around covered promenade deck.  Does the Westerdam  have one?

A nice wide promenade deck.

 

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, Dancing Shoes said:

Check the dock schedule for this year at Ketchikan.  HAL always docks in town.  Norwegian docks at Ward Cove.  See if Princess was docking there too this season.  Ward Cove is far away and really cuts into port time.  I liked HAL/Volendam for its wrap around covered promenade deck.  Does the Westerdam  have one?

Yes.

[donaldsc]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:56 PM, tetleytea said:

If this is your only trip to Alaska, then pick Skagway over Sitka.  If you take many trips to Alaska, then it's Sitka over Skagway.   Sailing on a newer cruise ship matters.  And Hubbard glacier is better than Dawes.  I'd go with Discovery Princess.   

 

I have been to both places and I would disagree.  Skagway is a one street town filled with touristy stores that is totally overrun with tourists.  The only positive thing about Skagway is either the railroad or the drive into the Yukon and I believe that right now you can't drive into the Yukon. 

 

Sitka is a hidden gem.  I just returned from a cruise that started in Sitka and we spent 3 days pre-cruise in Sitka.  It has great scenery.  It has some great places to visit.  Real people live there.  Most important it doesn't get overrun w tourists although this may change w Skagway being shut down.

 

DON

[CrankyOldGuy]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:28 PM, bchandler02 said:

• • Ports: The difference looks to be Sitka vs Skagway. I know Sitka requires a tender, not a big deal. Skagway has the railroad which may be a good excursion. 

 

 

Both are tacky tourist traps wrapping themselves in the history of foreign countries;  Skagway is all about the Klondike gold rush which was in Canada not Alaska.  In Sitka you can learn about their past Russian history from people who have no Russian heritage.  

 

The scenery/wilderness is why you would go to either of these places, not for the actual towns. 

Skagway has the train which is nice *if* you have good weather.

[lynncarol]

I have to say my husband and I have never cruised on Holland America. However, my sister-in-law did to Alaska and she told me that she noticed while in the theater she and her husband were the only couple there who were neither bald or grey-haired.  (My husband and I fit within those parameters, so no insult intended). Years ago, the two of us took the one-way Alaskan cruise with Princess and really enjoyed it.  I haven't been following the Alaska boards for quite a while., so forgive if this is a stupid question but why don't either of these options mention  Glacier Bay National Park?

[harryfat1]

5 hours ago, lynncarol said:

I have to say my husband and I have never cruised on Holland America. However, my sister-in-law did to Alaska and she told me that she noticed while in the theater she and her husband were the only couple there who were neither bald or grey-haired.  (My husband and I fit within those parameters, so no insult intended). Years ago, the two of us took the one-way Alaskan cruise with Princess and really enjoyed it.  I haven't been following the Alaska boards for quite a while., so forgive if this is a stupid question but why don't either of these options mention  Glacier Bay National Park?

That's because not all the sailings goes to GB. OP was very specific in picking two cruise sailings for comparison that fit their schedule so if they wanted GB, then they would need to look at different ships/sailings.  

 

It sounds like OP already decided on HAL and Endicott Arm/Dawes Glacier.  Although from various YouTube videos, most ships have not been able to get closed to the Dawes this season. Maybe next season could be different.

 

Someone post this today:

 

 

[tetleytea]

9 hours ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

Skagway has the train which is nice *if* you have good weather.

 

Not just the train, but the rental cars.  Which judging by the size of the rental car agencies in Skagway, people just aren't renting cars.  And that's my #1 tour in Skagway:  renting the car, bringing your passports, and going to Carcross.  Murray's Guide.  It's true that the fog can really destroy the train trip (because it's not just White Pass you need to see, but the mountain goats), but one key difference is that the rental car tends to be an all-day trip.  The train is what, 3 hours?   I've had pretty good luck with the fog lifting on the return trip if it's an all-day trip.  

 

I don't see the Sitka Raptor Center, the Orthodox church, the Fortress of the Bear, and the totem poles in the park beating out a successful first trip to Carcross.  Although seeing all the salmon leaping out of the water in Sitka was pretty cool.  

 

[MBP&O2/O]

I seem to think that someone claimed that the Princess version of 'Inland Passage' and the real thing are miles apart? Literally! 🙂

[Glaciers]

22 hours ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

Both are tacky tourist traps wrapping themselves in the history of foreign countries;  Skagway is all about the Klondike gold rush which was in Canada not Alaska.  In Sitka you can learn about their past Russian history from people who have no Russian heritage. 

 

This is simplistic and inaccurate. I agree with Don that Sitka is a hidden gem. It’s the least touristy port frequented by the main cruise lines and has some interesting history with a strong Russian tie.  It’s refreshing not to have the rows of touristy shops and to actually see locals shopping downtown as well. Not really the case so much in Skagway.  We’ve been to both several times and although the train is dandy in Skagway, Sitka is our favorite, much do to with the opposite that has been mentioned here as a “tacky tourist trap”. 

[GTJ]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:04 PM, Coral said:

HAL and Princess are run by the same organization in Alaska.

Not merely within Alaska, but worldwide. Both brands are owned by Carnival Corp. and plc, and while technically each brand is a distinct operating corporate entity, all is controlled from above by the same interests. The different brands have some distinctions in their personalities and their reporting structures, but Holland America Line and Princess Cruise do not compete against each other. The incest is most clear in Alaska, where ground arrangements for both brands are generally shared (and referred to as "HAP Alaska," referring to the initials of Holland America Princess), and most recently with operations consolidated in Whittier (with Holland America having moved there from Seward). But again, it is brand personality, not competition or corporate control, that distinguishes Holland America Line from Princess Cruises.