Turn Down Service is going away - will daily room service be next?

[Michel D99]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:04 AM, Hlitner said:

Tough comparison because a regular Yacht Club Suite is much smaller than a Neptune.  But those YC Suites generally go for about $400 per person day which includes a premium drink package and lots of amenities that those with Neptunes can only dream about.  Within the YC there are some much larger suites (such as the Royal Suite) which are expensive.   But consider that the lowest price/smallest Yacht Club cabins (some ships even have some smaller inside cabins) all get the same amenities as the those paying for the much larger suite.  DW and I spend very little waking time in our cabin so have no need for a large Neptune-like cabin.  We love the fact that for about $400 a day we get a nice cabin and all the amenities of the most expensive suites.   The YC meets the needs of those who want an upscale ship within a ship experience for a very reasonable price.  But it also accommodates those who are willing to pay for a very large suite.  

 

On our current suite the YC's Lounge (think of the Neptune Lounge) is a large bar/lounge that extends across the entire bow (with a prefect view).  All the drinks, snacks, etc are included (and unlimited) about 19 hours a day.  The Lounge has a 2nd story (like a balcony over the lounge) with its dedicated restaurant (serving 3 meals a day).  What is nice is that the Lounge has decent evening entertainment so one can be upstairs enjoying dinner with the soft tunes from below and that amazing bow view.   Go up 2 more decks and you have the huge private sun deck (with pool and several hot tubs as well as a buffet).  All this is exclusive to the YC and not accessible to the masses.  Everyone in the YC is treated like royalty.  Want to get off at a port?  Your Butler will escort you (via a priority elevator) down to the gangplank.  When we disembark, our butler will walk us off the ship (right past any lines of the masses).  Want to get on a tender?  The Butlers will escort you directly to a tender bypassing any lines, tender tickets, etc.  On the Private Island (Ocean Cay) the Yacht Club has its own beach, private restaurant, usual butlers, etc

 

Hank

 

 

I fully agree with you Hank. MSC YC is value for money and a wonderful experience as long as you do not leave the Yacht Club. 

[BobbiSox]

 The biggest problem created by this lack of service (although I can and have done without it) is  I'm afraid if we don't complain about it,  will become the norm. I think we shouldn't have to do housework on our vacation. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Michel D99 said:

I fully agree with you Hank. MSC YC is value for money and a wonderful experience as long as you do not leave the Yacht Club. 

LOL (about leaving YC).  We just came off the Seashore and only left the YC on a few evenings to go to some of the entertainment venues.  On one port day, when we were among the few who stayed aboard so we took advantage of a near empty ship to have lunch in the regular Lido where we could get pizza :).  But, no question, that the world inside the YC enclave is a completely different experience from the mass market experience outside the YC.  Those who do not understand the concept of "ship within a ship" should give the Yacht Club or NCL's Haven Suites a try.

 

Hank

[albingirl]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

LOL (about leaving YC).  We just came off the Seashore and only left the YC on a few evenings to go to some of the entertainment venues.  On one port day, when we were among the few who stayed aboard so we took advantage of a near empty ship to have lunch in the regular Lido where we could get pizza :).  But, no question, that the world inside the YC enclave is a completely different experience from the mass market experience outside the YC.  Those who do not understand the concept of "ship within a ship" should give the Yacht Club or NCL's Haven Suites a try.

 

Hank

Well, I have sailed with NCL many times and greatly dislike the whole ship within a ship concept. We sailed with friends who opted for the Haven experience and I stopped liking them when they declared they were no longer sailing with the great unwashed. They are no longer my friends. Now, back to the riveting subject at hand. Clean towels or no?

[fatcat04]

I am presently staying in a $400 a night Marriot Gaylord convention hotel (dh has a national conference and I tagged along) and don't get me started on the cost cutting disguished as safety. It can be much much worse.

 

I am in my 40s and well remember when room service at nice hotels came on a rolling table with crisp white linens, real warmed plates and customized utensils, teeny salt and pepper shakers and the menu was extensive and the food freshly prepared.

 

No more. My breakfast just came in a brown sack handed to me at the door with tons of plastic containers, no plates. And who knows when it was made. 

 

Marriot should be ashamed!!

[Hlitner]

Just now, albingirl said:

Well, I have sailed with NCL many times and greatly dislike the whole ship within a ship concept. We sailed with friends who opted for the Haven experience and I stopped liking them when they declared they were no longer sailing with the great unwashed. They are no longer my friends. Now, back to the riveting subject at hand. Clean towels or no?

I do get it and l we have met a few of those types in the YC.  Ironically, when we have cruised on Seabourn everyone we have met has been down to earth wonderful.  So what is the difference?  No doubt some in the YC and Havens are the type that relish in letting the world know they have the "biggest and most expensive house in the neighborhood."  But when you cruise on one of the Luxury lines, the attitude seems to be that everyone is in the same boat :).  By the way, the most snobbism we have encountered on any cruise has been on a few of our long HAL cruises when a few passengers make sure everyone knows they are in a "Neptune" Suite and/or have done a "full world" cruise.  When it comes to travel/cruising we can hold our own with anyone, but there is no need to stress that kind of stuff when having friendly conversations.  

 

Getting back to the YC, we have met plenty of fantastic folks in that venue.  We enjoy the "International" aspect and have made several European friends (who give us ideas for when we are doing our independent driving trips in Europe).  If you were to make an assumption that 10% in the YC are better left to their own snobbism, that would still leave the other 90% who are fair game for conversation and friendship.   Some folks (including us) are willing to pay more money for better service, food, and the other amenities that come with luxury.  There are other folks who are uncomfortable with that kind of thing and would rather be in a queue waiting to get a drink.  Simply different strokes for different folks kind of thing.

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

[Hlitner]

The last post has me thinking of what has happened to room service breakfast on ships.  Keep in mind that my first cruise was nearly 50 years ago when times/standards were different.  Room service breakfast menus (on nearly all lines) included just about anything you could get in the Lido including eggs just about style,  I still remember getting a full breakfast (n my cabin) on HAL where they would put a large heated metal device under the plate so that the eggs arrived hot!  These days, most cruise lines no longer deliver hot breakfast and often limit the items to continental stuff ltke cold pastry.  Just last week we ordered room service breakfast in MSC's Yacht Club.  The only hot egg offering was a "breakfast egg sandwich" similar to eggs benedict without the hollandaise sauce.  Mine was cold, the English muffin untoasted/unheated, and the bacon (on the side) was completely cold.  And this in a section of the ship where service is top notch!  I should add that the YC has excellent breakfast in both their dedicated indoor restaurant (where everything is hot and properly prepared) or at the pool deck's outdoor semi-buffet area.

 

The comment above about Marriott is sad but very typical.  Hotel chains make little secret that service is not going to be what used to be....but something very truncated.  And yet these same chains continue to boost prices into the stratosphere and then often top it off with some kind of ridiculous "Resort Fee" which can often top $40 per day.  And heaven forbid you want to park your car at a hotel.  $50+ per day has become too normal.

 

Hank

[PACD_JG]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Hotel chains make little secret that service is not going to be what used to be....but something very truncated.  And yet these same chains continue to boost prices into the stratosphere and then often top it off with some kind of ridiculous "Resort Fee" which can often top $40 per day.  And heaven forbid you want to park your car at a hotel.  $50+ per day has become too normal.

 

Well, when nobody will work for less than $20 an hour...

 

Speaking of which...I wonder if the cruise ship employees are able to demand better wages since Covid?  If so, then wages have to come from somewhere...unless you're one of those who thinks money grows on trees.

[Guest ldtr]

3 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

 

Well, when nobody will work for less than $20 an hour...

 

Speaking of which...I wonder if the cruise ship employees are able to demand better wages since Covid?  If so, then wages have to come from somewhere...unless you're one of those who thinks money grows on trees.

Considering  where most of the employees come from, and the economies of many of those countries. Probably not.

[PACD_JG]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Considering  where most of the employees come from, and the economies of many of those countries. Probably not.

And there lies the rub.

 

It's like demanding American-made products but shopping at Dollar General to buy the Chinese junk because those American-made products are too darn expensive.  Anyway, completely off-topic, but that is one of the reasons why I've been so hesitant to cruise, because whether we admit it or not, cruisers like to cruise because they get a level of service at a price point only attainable because of third-world labor.

[fatcat04]

42 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

And heaven forbid you want to park your car at a hotel.  $50+ per day has become too normal.

 

Hank

Exactly Hank. $35 a day to park it ourselves. Funny thing is we are changing hotels tomorrow because the conference ends, we have family nearby we want to visit, and we are not paying $400 a night plus parking etc to stay here BUT we are moving to a mid range Marriot all suite property across town next to an interstate with included breakfast  ($33 for the buffet here, who eats enough for breakfast to justify that cost?? I know, people on an expense account lol), free parking, and no "resort fee." But yes, cheaping out and nickle diming seems to be the major trend for all hospitality industry and that is a real shame. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by fatcat04

[Guest ldtr]

18 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

And there lies the rub.

 

It's like demanding American-made products but shopping at Dollar General to buy the Chinese junk because those American-made products are too darn expensive.  Anyway, completely off-topic, but that is one of the reasons why I've been so hesitant to cruise, because whether we admit it or not, cruisers like to cruise because they get a level of service at a price point only attainable because of third-world labor.

on the other hand they make more than they would in their home countries.  So in many ways it is a win for the passengers and a win for the employees who have higher incomes than they would otherwise.

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, ldtr said:

on the other hand they make more than they would in their home countries.  So in many ways it is a win for the passengers and a win for the employees who have higher incomes than they would otherwise.

slightly off topic, but after about 50 years of extensive cruising we have met (and chatted with) many crew members ranging from Captains (two are now personal friends) to cabin stewards/waiters/bar tenders/cleaners.  They all had one thing in common.  They were working on ships because they wanted to be working on ships.  There are many "hoops to jump through" to get a job at sea and these folks went through the hassles to get those jobs.  Workers on ships are NOT slaves but are simply folks doing a job because that is their choice.  Some are there for economic reasons (why most of us work) and others actually love working/traveling on ships.

 

Hank

[TiogaCruiser]

43 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

And there lies the rub.

 

It's like demanding American-made products but shopping at Dollar General to buy the Chinese junk because those American-made products are too darn expensive.  Anyway, completely off-topic, but that is one of the reasons why I've been so hesitant to cruise, because whether we admit it or not, cruisers like to cruise because they get a level of service at a price point only attainable because of third-world labor.

Could not disagree with you more.

 

At least for us, being on a ship, with the ocean right there and feeling it’s motion; spending time on a steamer on the promenade deck; enjoying sail in and sail away from a port; getting to see different places- that’s why we cruise. 

[richstowe]

7 hours ago, PACD_JG said:

And there lies the rub.

Cruisers like to cruise because they get a level of service at a price point only attainable because of third-world labor.

Exactly

6 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Could not disagree with you more.

 

At least for us, being on a ship, with the ocean right there and feeling it’s motion; spending time on a steamer on the promenade deck; enjoying sail in and sail away from a port; getting to see different places- that’s why we cruise. 

What are you disagreeing with ? Hiring at wages which are well below first world rates is the cruise industry's business model . Otherwise cruise prices would be double . 

6 hours ago, ldtr said:

on the other hand they make more than they would in their home countries.  So in many ways it is a win for the passengers and a win for the employees who have higher incomes than they would otherwise.

Absolutely ! It's like going to Mexico and being astounded that not everyone earns $15 an hour . Some people just don't get it . 

[Guest ldtr]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The last post has me thinking of what has happened to room service breakfast on ships.  Keep in mind that my first cruise was nearly 50 years ago when times/standards were different.  Room service breakfast menus (on nearly all lines) included just about anything you could get in the Lido including eggs just about style,  I still remember getting a full breakfast (n my cabin) on HAL where they would put a large heated metal device under the plate so that the eggs arrived hot!  These days, most cruise lines no longer deliver hot breakfast and often limit the items to continental stuff ltke cold pastry.  Just last week we ordered room service breakfast in MSC's Yacht Club.  The only hot egg offering was a "breakfast egg sandwich" similar to eggs benedict without the hollandaise sauce.  Mine was cold, the English muffin untoasted/unheated, and the bacon (on the side) was completely cold.  And this in a section of the ship where service is top notch!  I should add that the YC has excellent breakfast in both their dedicated indoor restaurant (where everything is hot and properly prepared) or at the pool deck's outdoor semi-buffet area.

 

The comment above about Marriott is sad but very typical.  Hotel chains make little secret that service is not going to be what used to be....but something very truncated.  And yet these same chains continue to boost prices into the stratosphere and then often top it off with some kind of ridiculous "Resort Fee" which can often top $40 per day.  And heaven forbid you want to park your car at a hotel.  $50+ per day has become too normal.

 

Hank

As long as people are willing to book the hotels with poor service, resort fees and expensive parking the hotels are going to continue to charge high rates, give poor service, and tack on additional fees.

 

Keep in mind though that the major hotel brands do not own or operate many of the hotels under their brands.  As the CEO of Marriott stated last year, their customers are the hotel owners that sign up to their brands, not necessarily the customers that book those hotels.

 

Main reason we often stay in brands that do not charge resort fees, collect points and book the more expensive hotels that we really want to stay at using points and for many brands avoid the resort fees.

Edited October 20, 2022 by ldtr

[Hlitner]

47 minutes ago, ldtr said:

As long as people are willing to book the hotels with poor service, resort fees and expensive parking the hotels are going to continue to charge high rates, give poor service, and tack on additional fees.

 

Keep in mind though that the major hotel brands do not own or operate many of the hotels under their brands.  As the CEO of Marriott stated last year, their customers are the hotel owners that sign up to their brands, not necessarily the customers that book those hotels.

 

Main reason we often stay in brands that do not charge resort fees, collect points and book the more expensive hotels that we really want to stay at using points and for many brands avoid the resort fees.

We hear you loud and clear.  Just two weeks ago we wanted to book a decent Miami Beach hotel (with a beach and looked at lots of options (we know the area quite well).   Ever decent hotel had resort fees so we than looked at what we would get for those resort fees.  The Confidene (a Hyatt property) jumped out at us because the $40 resort fee included loungers/umbrellas on the beach (among a few other things).  We decided to use points (which was a pretty good deal) but the points did not cover the resort fees although AMEX gave us the usual $100 hotel credit which ultimately covered the resort fees.  But it was still a pain in the behind and and went a bit against my own grain.

 

But take a look a Vegas where these days, just about everyone charges outrageous resort fees.  In fact, the first time we ever saw a resort fee was in Vegas during a stay at the Rio (about 30 years ago).  In those days they did not disclose the resort fee until one checked-in and I simply refused to pay the fee because it was not disclosed on the reservation.  The manager agreed to remove the fee!  But that was in the early days of resort fees and now, nobody is going to remove those fees.  Between excess taxes (often levyed on hotels) and resort fees, folks will often find it costs them at least $100 per day over the advertised hotel rate.  :(. I once teased a hotel manager that I was going to charge them a fee to clean our own room since they only would do it twice a week.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[Mary229]

10 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

I am presently staying in a $400 a night Marriot Gaylord convention hotel (dh has a national conference and I tagged along) and don't get me started on the cost cutting disguished as safety. It can be much much worse.

 

I am in my 40s and well remember when room service at nice hotels came on a rolling table with crisp white linens, real warmed plates and customized utensils, teeny salt and pepper shakers and the menu was extensive and the food freshly prepared.

 

No more. My breakfast just came in a brown sack handed to me at the door with tons of plastic containers, no plates. And who knows when it was made. 

 

Marriot should be ashamed!!

Those paper bag breakfast are awful.  It would be better to not offer breakfast.  That is the worst.  The new minimalist decor is supposed to be chic but it is plainly cheap 

[Guest ldtr]

25 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Those paper bag breakfast are awful.  It would be better to not offer breakfast.  That is the worst.  The new minimalist decor is supposed to be chic but it is plainly cheap 

Most chains that serve breakfast are back to hot breakfast these days.

[mcrcruiser]

We have read all the foregoing posts  . Seems to me HAL keeps increasing the cost of tips & decreases service simultaneously  . That never  worked for me in the past & it surely doesn't work for me now  .

Surely if we don't get the service then I surely will reduce my tips in kind  . 

 

 We stopped sailing Celebrity ships for a very long time because they sut back on food that we enjoyed  . for the prices that the cruise lines charge plus the tip increases  I will stay in a all inclusive  land  resort  before I ever give up my expectations . 

 We also feel accepting less gets less ^ less gets less employment  ,just ask those bean counters 

 

 

[Mary229]

11 hours ago, ldtr said:

Most chains that serve breakfast are back to hot breakfast these days.

I stay in a lot of hotels and yes breakfast is back but it certainly is not what it was.  It seems every industry faces the same quandary- raise prices and lose customers or cut back services in order to retain customers.  
 

There has always been an economic reset coming out of any crisis.  During that reset consumers change their expectations additionally some consumers drop out and others enter.  Businesses have to discover the right equation of benefits and prices to offer.
 

  Consider the cruise  case of dining dress, decorum and socializing - in general people of the late baby boom era are less likely to want to formally dress or participate in more formalized dining traditions.   Those who enjoy those attendant services of the formalized dining consider the new version as a degradation of service however their younger counterparts consider it a welcome change.  As an observer of economic behavior I have definitely noticed a new trend towards buffet dining.  (Not my personal preference).  That along with the popular revenue raising specialty restaurants is going to cause a major shift.  Some of us will love the shift, some will not and likely those who don’t like it will attribute the shift solely to accounting never imagining that their beloved custom is passé.

[daisy-mae]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

 

  Consider the cruise  case of dining dress, decorum and socializing - in general people of the late baby boom era are less likely to want to formally dress or participate in more formalized dining traditions.   Those who enjoy those attendant services of the formalized dining consider the new version as a degradation of service however their younger counterparts consider it a welcome change.  

All very good points. With respect to formal dress, I think the changes in the airlines' baggage policy may have had something to do with the trend towards more informal attire. Those tuxedos and gowns are lovely, but when luggage space is at a premium, they are likely the first to go.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

We have read all the foregoing posts  . Seems to me HAL keeps increasing the cost of tips & decreases service simultaneously  . That never  worked for me in the past & it surely doesn't work for me now  .

Surely if we don't get the service then I surely will reduce my tips in kind  . 

 

 We stopped sailing Celebrity ships for a very long time because they sut back on food that we enjoyed  . for the prices that the cruise lines charge plus the tip increases  I will stay in a all inclusive  land  resort  before I ever give up my expectations . 

 We also feel accepting less gets less ^ less gets less employment  ,just ask those bean counters 

 

 

My issues with both HAL and Celebrity (cut-backs at both lines) goes back several years prior to COVID.  Some of what we have heard (from friends and posts here on CC) post COVID are more reason for concern.  I believe that most quality companies (which includes HAL) respond to their customers.  When customers simply sit back and accept various cut-backs and negative changes the company doubles down with more cut-backs.  The old "give em an inch" saying does apply.  Those who have cruised on HAL for decades have see it all, but most do not complain.  So when HAL replaced the excellent Rosario Strings with various solo/duet folks (generally of lower quality) most said, "OK."  When HAL cut-back on the room service breakfast menus, most HAL fans said "OK."  When HAL eliminated Production Shows (often with a live band) folks said, "OK"  When HAL replaced any evening show with a BBC Documentary, some of the HAL fans said "we like movies."   I will not even start to get into the changes in the MDR and Lido but most have noticed negative changes.

 

If the HAL faithful had reacted to cut-backs, complained, made an issue in their evaluations, and posted here on CC (which is monitored by all cruise lines) perhaps the cut-backs would have stopped!  Recently there were some posted complaints on the Seabourn board about some declines.  Some of the Seabourn "suites" suddenly showed up on a couple of cruises and the complaints have apparently been reduced.  I mention this because Keeping one's mouth shut is not always the best way to encourage quality and excellence.  

 

We have a long (42 day) HAL cruise next spring which will either reinforce our long-time enjoyment of HAL or put the nail in their coffin (from our point of view).   Perhaps we cannot convince HAL to make some improvements, but we always have the ability to vote with our dollars and business.   Unlike some fellow HAL fans, we also cruise and enjoy many other lines.  Consumers have a choice and perhaps HAL (and some other cruise lines) need to be reminded that it is a competitive industry and once loyal customers try another product it may be difficult to lure them back.  

 

Hank

[TiogaCruiser]

G

On 10/20/2022 at 6:51 AM, PACD_JG said:

And there lies the rub.

 

It's like demanding American-made products but shopping at Dollar General to buy the Chinese junk because those American-made products are too darn expensive.  Anyway, completely off-topic, but that is one of the reasons why I've been so hesitant to cruise, because whether we admit it or not, cruisers like to cruise because they get a level of service at a price point only attainable because of third-world labor.

 

23 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Could not disagree with you more.

 

At least for us, being on a ship, with the ocean right there and feeling it’s motion; spending time on a steamer on the promenade deck; enjoying sail in and sail away from a port; getting to see different places- that’s why we cruise. 

 

16 hours ago, richstowe said:

What are you disagreeing with ? Hiring at wages which are well below first world rates is the cruise industry's business model . Otherwise cruise prices would be double .  
 

Some of us cruise for the more “organic” reasons. We’re not cruising for “service”. 
 

One day I hope to get aboard the Alaska Marine Highway and spend some time there. 

[gelo7]

I really do enjoy the pampered aspect of turndown service on vacations.