The dark side of flying....

[OnTheJourney]

Literally. The one thing DW and I are noticing lately that we absolutely hate is that with the advent of free wifi whereby everyone can connect with their devices to watch movies, etc. what’s happening is that hardly anyone opens their window sliders anymore during a daytime flight. It’s not only depressing, and surely more than mildly claustrophobic for some people, but also like being in a dark cave for a few hours. We really didn't enjoy it. No issue, of course, with overnight flights, but all 4 daytime flights we had the past week were exactly the same way. I think we were among the few that had the window open (I like to see the scenery anyway). I suspect it’s due to people wanting to better see their screens or else sleep. It’s also nice to look out of windows on the other side. What I like best about flying is seeing what we’re flying over unless cloud cover. Oh well…nothing stays the same. Was also surprised to see that we had seat-back movie screens on both longer flights and yet less than 4 hours each. I was sitting at a window and can still easily see the screen. I guess for some folks they equate it to riding on the subway. 

 

Anyone else notice what I feel is a rather depressing trend? Makes us want to think more in terms of car travel rather than trips associated with flying. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[klfrodo]

I can only wish and hope and pray that this someday becomes my biggest complaint in life.

[rkacruiser]

OP, I agree with your desire to have some daylight in the plane's cabin and to be able to look out the window--even on both sides of the plane.  In case of an accident, having as much interior light as possible would be desirable and also, in case of a fire on one side of the plane, with the window shades down, that would hinder the passengers information as to which side is safer to try to leave the plane.  

 

Something that I have never understood is why the cabin lights are turned off when the plane takes off and lands.  What's the point of that?  

Edited November 3, 2022 by rkacruiser

[OnTheJourney]

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

In case of an accident, having as much interior light as possible would be desirable

Exactly. I thought it at least used to be a rule that window shades must be open for takeoff and landing. Apparently it is either no longer enforced or has been changed. 

 

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

in case of a fire on one side of the plane, with the window shades down, that would hinder the passengers information as to which side is safer to try to leave the plane.  

Another great point. I was quite shocked that the shades weren't open. 

 

54 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

can only wish and hope and pray that this someday becomes my biggest complaint in life.

Ok, I get it. And surely in the general scheme of things it isn't a huge issue, but relative to flying it just seems to be a change that I not only don't like for certain aesthetic reasons, but as rka pointed out, there is surely potentially increased danger in the event of some sort of emergency. If people are fine with sitting in the dark for hours, then I guess so be it. Maybe the same sort of folks who'd book a balcony room on a cruise but never go out on it. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[Ashland]

Agree completely OP....If you happen to be on a flight with me...I'll be the one with the open window slider. I have no interest in flying in a dark tube that I can't enjoy the outside scenery.

[Zach1213]

55 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Something that I have never understood is why the cabin lights are turned off when the plane takes off and lands.  What's the point of that?  

 

The point of this is to get the inside of the aircraft as close as possible to the outside of the aircraft when it comes to lighting conditions. That way, should you need to evacuate, your vision is as close as possible to the exterior lighting conditions and, thus, have minimal need for you to "adjust" as you try to get away from the aircraft. 

 

Regarding window shades - I will say that, in the vast majority of times I fly (which is a lot), the flight attendants are still very adamant about making sure shades are open for takeoff and landing. 

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, Ashland said:

I have no interest in flying in a dark tube that I can't enjoy the outside scenery.

Hoping to wind up aside of someone like you (espcially if I'm in the aisle or middle seat....😉)  We have some flights coming up in business class (have hardly ever done this except for a few times over the years). Not sure - based on some of the configurations - if that cabin really affords as much outside view as those farther back in the plane that are much closer to windows. Guess the whole idea of business class though is for the greater isolation / separation between seats especially for those who want or need to get some work done. We're doing it mostly for an overnight across the pond - might actually get to sleep a bit. 

[OnTheJourney]

42 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

making sure shades are open for takeoff and landing. 

Didn't happen on a single one of my flights during the past week - all with either Delta or United. They were closed from the time we boarded and stayed that way (except for those few, like myself, who opened them). It was very weird and unexpected. 

[rkacruiser]

54 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

The point of this is to get the inside of the aircraft as close as possible to the outside of the aircraft when it comes to lighting conditions. That way, should you need to evacuate, your vision is as close as possible to the exterior lighting conditions and, thus, have minimal need for you to "adjust" as you try to get away from the aircraft. 

 

Thank you very much for this explanation.  It makes sense.  

 

55 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

Regarding window shades - I will say that, in the vast majority of times I fly (which is a lot), the flight attendants are still very adamant about making sure shades are open for takeoff and landing. 

 

11 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Didn't happen on a single one of my flights during the past week - all with either Delta or United. They were closed from the time we boarded and stayed that way (except for those few, like myself, who opened them). It was very weird and unexpected. 

 

I don't fly as often as Zach1213, but, my most recent experiences have been such as OnTheJourney's.  I have never observed a Flight Attendant ask a passenger to raise their window shade before take-off or before landing.  

[rkacruiser]

16 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

We have some flights coming up in business class (have hardly ever done this except for a few times over the years). Not sure - based on some of the configurations -

 

I have flown on several Business Class flights with both aisle and seats in the center of the plane.  Aisle seats (single seats) are what I prefer and I have control of the window shades.  If the plane's configuration is 2-2-2, than the second seat on the aisle is dependent on what the window seat's occupant does regarding the shades.  (This seating configuration is not one I like and try to avoid flights that have that.)  If the seating configuration is 1-2-1, the 2 seats in the middle section are dependent on whether the passengers in the aisle seats keep their shades up or down.  Even if they are up, the view from the two middle seats is limited.  

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

I have never observed a Flight Attendant ask a passenger to raise their window shade before take-off or before landing.  

 

This does depend on who the regulator is, and also on any airline-specific policies.

[rkacruiser]

38 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

This does depend on who the regulator is, and also on any airline-specific policies.

 

In your opinion, is the position of the window shades during take-off or landing a potential safety issue?  

[klfrodo]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

In your opinion, is the position of the window shades during take-off or landing a potential safety issue?  

Yes. In case of emergency on the ground, it’s important for emergency responders to see what’s going on inside the cabin.

 

while at the jetway in the summertime, it’s important to keep the shades closed to help cool the interior of the plane.

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

while at the jetway in the summertime, it’s important to keep the shades closed to help cool the interior of the plane

 

Correct, in my opinion.  That is what I have thought.  When I get to my window seat, the shades go up!  I like to watch what is taking place on the tarmac.  Once, I saw my luggage being loaded!  

[Ashland]

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Correct, in my opinion.  That is what I have thought.  When I get to my window seat, the shades go up!  I like to watch what is taking place on the tarmac.  Once, I saw my luggage being loaded!  

Agree...On one of my recent flights I watched as they loaded several crates containing pets, mostly dogs from what I could see. They were very careful handling them...this was interesting to see.

[Globaliser]

9 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

In your opinion, is the position of the window shades during take-off or landing a potential safety issue?  

 

Yes. If there is an emergency, those inside also need to be able to see out to assess where there may be danger. A good illustration of this is the shades at the doors on some aircraft types. These are fitted upside-down (compared to the usual), so that to close them you need to slide them up from below. This means that if there is a hard touchdown in an emergency situation, the forces acting on the shade will tend to open them rather than close them. At the doors, this is more critical than in passenger rows.

 

Some regulators are more strict than others about requiring and enforcing procedures to have the shades open for take-off and landing.

 

Passenger comfort considerations like keeping the aircraft cooler are secondary, but having the shades down while the aircraft is parked does help with this.

[Zach1213]

7 hours ago, Ashland said:

Agree...On one of my recent flights I watched as they loaded several crates containing pets, mostly dogs from what I could see. They were very careful handling them...this was interesting to see.

 

When I was about 16, I was sitting on an Air France A340 waiting for a flight out of CDG. I looked at them loading the bags, and noticed one guy just standing there, with mine (and only mine) next to him. Right before we left, he threw the bag in, closed up, and we departed. When we landed at ORD, I had a tag that said "Last Bag" on it. To this day, I have never seen a tag like that again, nor do I have any idea why my bag had that. 20+ years later, I still have the tag as a souvenir...somewhere. 

[fbgd]

17 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

We have some flights coming up in business class (have hardly ever done this except for a few times over the years). Not sure - based on some of the configurations - if that cabin really affords as much outside view as those farther back in the plane that are much closer to windows. 

 

Depends on the airline and seating configuration. If you're on a 777 aircraft where the airline offers a first class cabin as well then you'll typically find business class sits over the wing section. If you get towards the front of the cabin you might get a bit of engine view, all depends on the airline and configuration but a reasonably generalization based on my experience.

 

A few things to consider in First/Business cabins are 

1) You'll typically get multiple windows (I think the most I've had is 4) and you may be asked to close at least one of them if there's a lot of light seepage into the cabin. If I explain that I'm looking out the window then I'm generally given a pass. You can always throw a blanket over your head if you really want to see out and the rest of the cabin is still dark/sleeping!

2) TV screens in business/first can typically tilt in multiple directions. So if there is a bit of glare it's not much bother to adjust it slightly to account for that.

3) The way business/first seats are designed with more privacy in mind so you'll often find walls/doors/privacy screens that can prevent the brightest glares of light hitting PTVs beyond the window seat anyways.

4) In Business/First the cabin crew are there to provide to your every whim. If you're getting glare on the screen or that of someone else ask them to have the flight crew change the flight's path slightly so that the sun doesn't hit at the same angle. Works every time.

[Globaliser]

5 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

To this day, I have never seen a tag like that again, nor do I have any idea why my bag had that.

 

ISTR that these tags are typically used at stations where check-in is quite manual, and the check-in agents know when they're closing the flight and not accepting any more passengers. The last bag to go down then has this tag put on it, so the baggage handlers know that they can close the last can (if that's what they're using) and take the bags out to the aircraft, and that they don't have to wait for any more bags to come down from check-in.

 

I don't know why one bag (ie yours) and that handler were waiting by the aircraft side, but one guess is that it was a bit like an aircraft-side marker to similar effect, just in case anything else did turn up before they closed the hold door.

[Zach1213]

48 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

ISTR that these tags are typically used at stations where check-in is quite manual, and the check-in agents know when they're closing the flight and not accepting any more passengers. The last bag to go down then has this tag put on it, so the baggage handlers know that they can close the last can (if that's what they're using) and take the bags out to the aircraft, and that they don't have to wait for any more bags to come down from check-in.

 

I don't know why one bag (ie yours) and that handler were waiting by the aircraft side, but one guess is that it was a bit like an aircraft-side marker to similar effect, just in case anything else did turn up before they closed the hold door.

 

Interesting, thanks. I have been to some pretty darn small airports where everything is pretty manual and had never seen it before or since, so I am particularly surprised that it was with Air France at their CDG hub. But hey...I kind of like not completely knowing the story behind it 🙂

[6rugrats]

On 11/4/2022 at 10:52 AM, fbgd said:

 

4) In Business/First the cabin crew are there to provide to your every whim. If you're getting glare on the screen or that of someone else ask them to have the flight crew change the flight's path slightly so that the sun doesn't hit at the same angle. Works every time.

Honestly?  What airline is this?

[Globaliser]

 

31 minutes ago, 6rugrats said:

On 11/4/2022 at 2:52 PM, fbgd said:

4) In Business/First the cabin crew are there to provide to your every whim. If you're getting glare on the screen or that of someone else ask them to have the flight crew change the flight's path slightly so that the sun doesn't hit at the same angle. Works every time.

 

Honestly?  What airline is this?

 

What? Have you never experienced this? And there we were, thinking that you were a seasoned traveller and all.

[6rugrats]

1 hour ago, Globaliser said:

 

 

What? Have you never experienced this? And there we were, thinking that you were a seasoned traveller and all.

 

I guess I haven't caught a ride on this magical unicorn airline.

[OnTheJourney]

On 11/4/2022 at 10:52 AM, fbgd said:

If you're getting glare on the screen or that of someone else ask them to have the flight crew change the flight's path slightly so that the sun doesn't hit at the same angle. Works every time.

seriously? Somehow I can't hardly believe they'd actually do this. I mean, changing the path might affect some other person's glare. 

[fbgd]

13 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

seriously? Somehow I can't hardly believe they'd actually do this. I mean, changing the path might affect some other person's glare. 

The course diversion might also add an hour to the flight time. But in the unlikely event you get push back from the crew remind them how much you paid for your ticket and of course any low/mid tier frequent flyer status you have and how important you are to the airline.