Gratuities/Daily Service Charges increasing!!

[DaCruiseBug]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

So, someone says NCL doesn’t give out their DSC or tips to their staff.

 

Here it is, transparent as they can make it, right from their WEB site…

 

”Why is there a service charge?
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.”

 

“

What about gratuities?

 

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, there is an 20% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 20% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 20% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining.”

 

There you have it.  Explained by NCL.  Less than 5 seconds of research.

 

So you think an extremely VAGUE statement answers all our questions? It's vague on purpose, so that NCL can ultimately do what they want anyways.

 

"support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.”
 

Does this mean 100% of the DSC goes to salary and incentive programs? No.

Does it mean that the crew is penalized if nobody pays the DSC? No.

does it mean that NCL doesn't use the DSC as a slush fund for other expenses? No.

[DaCruiseBug]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

The cruise industry is a “service” industry….just like spas, resorts, hotels, restaurants, bars, etc (which it essentially is, only at sea).  If you’re new to the cruise industry, it works the same.  You’re served drinks, food, have a room steward, entertainment, etc.

 

A Cruise is best described as a resort on water.

 

For those who are unfamiliar with how “resort fees” work, here’s what Condé Nast states…

 

“Resort fees are mandatory daily charges—typically ranging from $25 to $35—tacked onto the room rate that cover access to on-site facilities and amenities such as pools, gyms, beach chairs, Wi-Fi and more. These fees are usually found in tourist destinations like Las Vegas, Orlando, and Hawaii and are set by hotel owners, rather than the brand that operates the hotel. (It is common for a hotel company like Marriott or Hilton to manage a hotel and not actually own the building.)”

 

1. If I go to a restaurant and leave a 20% tip I know for certain that the server gets that tip and usually they give a cut to the other workers. The restaurant doesn't get to keep it. It's also not used to pay the staff salaries and pizza parties.

 

2. Resort fees are additional revenue for each of those hotels. They also don't market them as "crew incentives". Everyone also knows that resort fees are just another way for the hotel to charge more.

 

Try again...

[European_CruiseGirl]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

 

 

”Why is there a service charge?
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.”

 

“

I would actually read the above so that the staff is paid by salary and an incentive program. And that the incentive program is only supported (not dependent on) the DSC. So the incentive program is what it is anyway and NCL uses some of the  guests DSC to fund it. This quote by NCL leaves it also open that NCL might use the DSC to anything else they wish to also. Lets say leadership bonuses etc. They don’t say that the DSC is used to give it back to the crew. Only that it ”supports” the crew incentive program which is a very vague description. Who knows what else it might support. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by European_CruiseGirl

[KeithJenner]

56 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

Virgin Voyages does this already.

 

As do others I believe.

[bortman23]

12 minutes ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

I think an oxford comma would help with confusion, but then again maybe that's on purpose:

 

"...behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary, and incentive programs that your service charge supports."

 

[Barb Nahoumi]

I'm glad that we prepaid.

[DaCruiseBug]

31 minutes ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

I would actually read the above so that the staff is paid by salary and an incentive program. And that the incentive program is only supported (not dependent on) the DSC. So the incentive program is what it is anyway and NCL uses some of the  guests DSC to fund it. This quote by NCL leaves it also open that NCL might use the DSC to anything else they wish to also. Lets say leadership bonuses etc. They don’t say that the DSC is used to give it back to the crew. Only that it ”supports” the crew incentive program which is a very vague description. Who knows what else it might support. 

 

You're absolutely right. On their filings NCL also includes crew pensions under operational expenses so I wonder if the DSC also goes to fund the Captains pension because we know a lowly room steward isn't getting a pension from NCL.

[RocketMan275]

51 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Then NCL should not make it a charge that can be removed. That is an NCL problem. 

I would prefer that cruise lines require more evidence of poor service to remove the DSC.  Too many passengers see removing the DSC as a quick and convenient way to reduce their costs with no impact upon themselves.  After all, they believe, the cruise lines have plenty of money to pay salaries without the DSC.

[New2cruise2022]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

I would prefer that cruise lines require more evidence of poor service to remove the DSC.  Too many passengers see removing the DSC as a quick and convenient way to reduce their costs with no impact upon themselves.  After all, they believe, the cruise lines have plenty of money to pay salaries without the DSC.

I think they probably would ask for evidence, but it is so subjective that there is no way an arbiter could effectively manage the line of demarcation for poor versus good service. Allowing that kind of subjectivity would open NCL up to scrutiny and could result in claims of discrimination. “They let this person of X (age, gender, nationality, race, color, religion) remove the DSC but disallowed removal for this person of Y (age, gender, nationality, race, color, religion). “

The answer is simple — don’t allow the DSC to be removed or reduced. Turn it into a mandatory fee. Resorts have been doing this for years and have no issues collecting. 

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, Red-Sol said:

Abolish the entire DSC as a separate entity and roll whatever the cost might be into the base fare. 
...
That could be a huge advantage in advertising saying they don't even have a DSC so come cruise with us.

...

Sure seems like everybody would win doing it that way.

...

Edited to add...the biggest advantage might be the stopping of all the moaning and groaning about it here on CruiseCritic 🙂

And a huge marketing disadvantage when other cruise lines point out how NCL's fares are so much higher.

 

Your plan would not solve as many problems as you expect.  Immediately we would be inundated by posters demanding to know if the increased cruise fares were going to the crew.  These posters would complain that they could no longer delete the DSC, therefore the evil corporations had increased the cost they have to pay.

[New2cruise2022]

2 hours ago, Red-Sol said:

plus I think some people might actually tip more than they do now (hopefully) if they don't see a DSC amount.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. I own and manage a restaurant. I source good ingredients, I have great recipes and menu items — but my employees are the lifeblood of my business. The quality of their work and the customer service they provide is what keeps my customers coming back. Because my employees are so vital to my business, I do not gamble their lively hoods on the generosity of customers. I pay them a living wage more than double the federal minimum wage — before any tips. Granted, I have to adjust the menu prices to pay for this. The cost is prohibitive for some people, but I don’t have a problem filling seats. Some customers are great tippers and some are not. Some weeks my employees double their earnings with tips. Some weeks it is less. But I have never found my increased prices hurts my employees. They are happy because make a good wage and work very hard to keep customers happy. 

[graphicguy]

No matter how much evidence, even from NCL directly, shown to some of you, you are going to argue. I need to just quit trying to reason with the unreasonable.

[New2cruise2022]

@RocketMan275 I believe our positions are closer to one another than our banter suggests. We both enjoy cruising and want the industry and NCL to thrive. We both appreciate humans and support the ability for the crew to earn a living wage and thrive. I think we only deviate in the method to ensure that both parties thrive. 
 

NCL should close the loop on GSC and price cruises to cover the expense of employee the crew. Allow room for guests to show appreciation as the guest seems fit. If employees are well compensated, it will create a name for NCL as the best in customer service and will attract consumers willing to pay higher rates. It is a long play for a business plan, but it does work. 

[New2cruise2022]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

No matter how much evidence, even from NCL directly, shown to some of you, you are going to argue. I need to just quit trying to reason with the unreasonable.

But if it weren’t this way, CC would be a bunch of threads that said “I love cruising!” and “Cruising is fun!” and “All of the pricing and fees are fair and reasonable and awesome!”  
 

Reasonable and unreasonable are labels of perception. 

[DaCruiseBug]

11 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

No matter how much evidence, even from NCL directly, shown to some of you, you are going to argue. I need to just quit trying to reason with the unreasonable.

 

What evidence are you referring to? Show us where NCL specifically states where the DSC go. Not a vague statement, not "in part", show us the breakdown of where the $20 per day is going and I guarantee you that a little transparency would actually be enough for most people.

[rudy63ca]

Are these service charges mandatory? Can you opt out of them. I’ve been getting mixed information and find these misleading when trying to find a booking. 
 

[New2cruise2022]

16 minutes ago, rudy63ca said:

Are these service charges mandatory? Can you opt out of them. I’ve been getting mixed information and find these misleading when trying to find a booking. 
 

The answer is yes. The opinions are many. 

[RocketMan275]

11 hours ago, rudy63ca said:

Are these service charges mandatory? Can you opt out of them. I’ve been getting mixed information and find these misleading when trying to find a booking. 
 

You can opt out but why would you?  You are receiving services so you should pay for them.  

[dbrown84]

13 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You can opt out but why would you?  You are receiving services so you should pay for them.  

They asked if they could opt out, nothing more/nothing less.  All you had to say was "yes".  They didn't ask for your opinion on it.  If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you pay double to make up for the "loss".  You're not their parent, so you don't need to be telling them what they should pay for.  I swear, the computer muscles around this place is amazing

[GreenFamily]

11 hours ago, rudy63ca said:

Are these service charges mandatory? Can you opt out of them. I’ve been getting mixed information and find these misleading when trying to find a booking. 
 

As I stated earlier, I figure the free at sea beverage package will cost my family approx. $800 in gratuities in addition to the gratuities we pay for all the other services. We don’t go to bars so we wouldn’t be using that service.

Edited December 14, 2022 by GreenFamily

[RocketMan275]

13 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

They asked if they could opt out, nothing more/nothing less.  All you had to say was "yes".  They didn't ask for your opinion on it.  If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you pay double to make up for the "loss".  You're not their parent, so you don't need to be telling them what they should pay for.  I swear, the computer muscles around this place is amazing

Thanks for  your opinion on my opinion.

[New2cruise2022]

Tipping and service is a complicated matrix that makes it highly personalized. 
 

How and where a person was raised can make an impact on how they approach tipping. It doesn’t necessarily make someone a horrible cheapskate if they are accustomed to tipping less (or none) just as someone tipping a sizeable amount doesn’t make them a saint. Tipping is a much more commonly accepted (and demanded) practice in the US and much less common or expected for people outside of the US. It would be somewhat xenophobic to expect everyone to approach tipping practices the same way. 
 

Apart from the money and how it is spent, is the other axis of expected service. Some guests by nature are not demanding. They enjoy life as it comes to them with little or no attention or perks. They order right off the menu and are not picky. They make their own beds, dry their own towels in their room, and turn down daily service because they value privacy above someone in their space. 
 

And there are also value drivers. These people want to understand how value is delivered. These are people that may determine tipping doesn’t improve service, so they make decisions based on that. While another value driver may absolutely believe tipping bring better value. Other people are ledger watchers. They want to know the why, the how, and the where of every dollar spent. 
 

This topic brings lots of interest and opinions. And like other topics that have no right or wrong answer, the debate will continue on. Like religion and politics, this topic works in private all the time and almost never in a public forum. 
 

It rages on because it is a justification and validation practice. The elusive right or wrong answer makes people want support for their individual perspective and practice. 

[njkate]

I’m on the fence on this. 
Say a family of 4 does a 10 day European cruise this summer that is port intensive where the majority of passengers are off the ship all day on excursions or exploring, that’s $800 added to the cost of cruises all ready through the roof on pricing. 
 

I can justify it on a trans Atlantic where you have 5-6 sea days and all are on board

Just my opinion

[dbrown84]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Thanks for  your opinion on my opinion.

funny thing is I knew as I was typing my response that you would totally miss the point

[Level six]

We just spent 4 days in Vegas. Because of this discussion, I paid very close attention to our tips so I could compare.  We tipped 20% or more to everyone who gave us any service at all.  Our tips did not add up to $40 + dollars a day, not even close..........it's too much!  I was okay with $30, but not $40.