Turn Down to be reduced to once a day 2023!

[cruiseny4life]

1 minute ago, njhorseman said:

No...you need to read documents you cite. The SEC 8-K form you've cited is solely about the changes to  senior officers, specifically the presidents of Regent Seven Seas and Oceania.  There is no reference to the layoff of 9% of NCLH's shoreside staff.

Unfortunately @SeaShark is correct. Here's a snippet of the RIF disclosure from page 3:

 

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Unfortunately @SeaShark is correct. Here's a snippet of the RIF disclosure from page 3:

 

Yes, I know...I quickly discovered my error and edited my post...but not before you had seen it.

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, cruiseny4life said:

Unfortunately @SeaShark is correct. Here's a snippet of the RIF disclosure from page 3:

 

Glad I jumped out of my NCL stock a few weeks ago.  Nice ROI, but mostly invested for the OBC.  Not seeing myself sailing NCL for a long while....higher fares, fewer services, across the board cutbacks...none of that makes for a compelling NCL experience.

[dexddd]

21 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

This from the company that implemented paper straws but kept plastic cups.

At least they are small plastic cups that they fill with ice, serve a weak tap cocktail that costs $13 plus 20% unless have a package.

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 minute ago, dexddd said:

costs $13 plus 20% unless have a package

This is why everybody who drinks takes the package.😎

[Steff79]

pay more get less, and pay for everything extra,

the new premium NCL.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, Steff79 said:

pay more get less, and pay for everything extra,

the new premium NCL.

 

In fairness, all cruise lines are in the same boat. It will be up to consumers to decide which cruise line best meets their needs based on the 'new normal'. Continued reductions to service and increase in prices are inevitable across the industry.

 

Actually, I'm paying more at nearly every single store I visit also, especially grocery. There is a price to pay for decisions which have been made.

 

 

[mz-s]

42 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

 

I'm pretty sure the person who wrote the post was being facetious. I agree that blaming the crew isn't necessarily the right way to go at it, however unhappy crew = unhappy passengers = more complaints and potentially fewer customers or crew. Sometimes the way to affect change is from the inside. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way it is. 

 

One way I am responding to this (not just NCL but other lines too...) is I am declining automatic payment of gratuities/service charges/etc and tipping, in cash, those who I want to receive the tips. That way I control who gets the money to some extent. Who knows where it's going when you see that "daily service charge" line item on your statement.

[Steff79]

paxe payhing higher service charge and NCL paying the staff less money.

[NameThatFunnel]

You want these cutbacks and price increases to stop? Quit booking cruises, period. That is the only way to  get their attention. NCL are the worst offenders for cutbacks and increases in the industry. They should be banned for using the term "free" in any of their marketing.

[mypleasure]

5 hours ago, TSUmom said:

I enjoy my cabin being ready for me in the evening but honestly I am one of those that make the bed every morning straighten up my cabin and reuse towels for a few days.  My cabin stewards always comment that it is like nobody is even staying there.  Will I miss have twice a day service?  Maybe a bit but it will not ruin my cruises.

This is us too! I talk to our steward on day 1 to give them an idea of our needs. I explain that we tend to be in the room between 6 and 7:30 in the evening, don't need ice, will need towels replacing every few days when we leave them on the floor rather than hanging them up. I tend to make the bed myself most mornings as I hate seeing it in an unmade state. I keep the room tidy by putting things away, l put rubbish in the trash and we are generally not messy people. This is all fine by me to switch to once a day.

[Laszlo]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

While this doesn’t really bother me at all, I always had to chuckle when hotels (and now cruise lines) encouraged towels to be reused to somehow make them look environmentally concious.  If there was ever an industry with a worse environmental impact than the cruise industry, I can’t think of it.

 

If you’re cutting services to save money, just say it.  I would appreciate the honesty more than the excuses.

Yea, I laughed out loud when I saw the noticed our ports and times were changing because of the carbon footprint. Our ship is traveling about 3800 miles round trip. And they think slowing down for 260 miles making our port call 3 hours later is going to help Lol

[disneylover89]

I don't really care about the change, once a day is enough for us as long as they leave enough towels but to increase the daily charges at the same time as introducing a service reduction is a real FU to all their customers. 

[zzdoug]

3 hours ago, HowardK said:

I could see them charging for reserved VIP tables at Howl at the Moon and Syd Normans

Be patient.  This is already happening in Las Vegas...

 

3 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Well, the entire cruise industry did just emerge from being shut down for over a year.  It's a minor miracle that they even survived, and if they are ever to regain financial strength it is bound to require some unpopular changes.  The reason that NCL can "get away with this" is because their competition is all likely in the same boat ( 🤣 ).

 

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

But in spite of some misinformed posters who seem to believe things are back to normal in the cruise industry, more significant cuts are in the future. 

Cruise lines continue to bleed cash at alarming rates. Even if they return to 2019 profitability, they will barely make enough to pay interest only payment on current debt.

All of these new ships are incredibly expensive and NCL and the other mass-market cruise lines have taken on huge debt loads to pay for them.  It seems to me that they are substituting capital for labor - giving us new toys in exchange for service, which maybe makes sense from a profitability perspective during a period of low interest rates and rising salaries.  However as interest rates climb, I wonder if this tradeoff will change.  Carnival just cancelled some of their ships on order and I'm pretty sure interest rates were a factor. 

 

I think it would make sense to provide a higher level of service on older ships where maybe people aren't as interested in the new doodads like drop waterslides and race tracks.

 

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I fundamentally disagree with blaming the crew for the bean counting. If you're going to cruise you should tip as you always would. If you disagree with the changes made, just don't cruise and explore land vacations, all inclusives, etc. or move on to different lines such as ones that include tips in the fare.

Going to Europe and staying on land was a super deal this past summer. The Euro is not much more than the US Dollar so everything is on sale.  We had a fabulous time in Italy this summer.  Rented an airbnb 2br townhouse with a yard for US $140/night and ate very well.  Euro is going back up, and they are apparently facing energy shortages, so I don't know how long this will last.

 

17 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Called shrinkflation. It is everywhere around you, if you have not noticed. It is because of the massive, uncontrolled inflation caused by the current US. 

Indeed! Us, as in WE the people of Earth.  It's happening to humans everywhere!

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, zzdoug said:

All of these new ships are incredibly expensive and NCL and the other mass-market cruise lines have taken on huge debt loads to pay for them.  It seems to me that they are substituting capital for labor - giving us new toys in exchange for service, which maybe makes sense from a profitability perspective during a period of low interest rates and rising salaries.  However as interest rates climb, I wonder if this tradeoff will change. 

Most of the new capital is financed with fixed rate financing.  Just as with a fixed rate mortgage, all other things being equal, inflation actually makes it easier to pay it off.

[New2cruise2022]

5 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I fundamentally disagree with blaming the crew for the bean counting. If you're going to cruise you should tip as you always would. If you disagree with the changes made, just don't cruise and explore land vacations, all inclusives, etc. or move on to different lines such as ones that include tips in the fare.

Agreed that crew shouldn’t bear the brunt of dissatisfaction. Just don’t cruise, however, is a fair argument for people going forward. However,  complaints about increase in fees and decrease in services is perfectly fair for travelers that booked months and years in advance. One thing advertised, another thing required or delivered. 

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Agreed that crew shouldn’t bear the brunt of dissatisfaction. Just don’t cruise, however, is a fair argument for people going forward. However,  complaints about increase in fees and decrease in services is perfectly fair for travelers that booked months and years in advance. One thing advertised, another thing required or delivered. 

 

That's been an ongoing issue with the industry for me for years, and one reason why I don't really book cruises very far in advance anymore unless it's an unbeatable deal.

[ChiefMateJRK]

27 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

That's been an ongoing issue with the industry for me for years, and one reason why I don't really book cruises very far in advance anymore unless it's an unbeatable deal.

Some of us just book them and then decide if the value is there when final payment date arrives.  More often than not, if something changes after booking it is to my benefit (e.g. price drops, promo increases, etc.).  In the case of promo increases, I've had to cancel and rebook (which is easy).  Other than this minor service change, the only bait-and-switch I've seen is when they bumped up a couple of my favorite Whiskeys to a buck more than the standard beverage package allows.  I won't complain until they remove JW Black Label.  😎

 

Rebooking Pro-tip:  You don't have to lose the room you originally booked.  Just book a new room and then have NCL give the original room back to you right after you cancel the original booking.

[luv2kroooz]

6 hours ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

It would be so refreshing if they’d just admit the fact and not try to bs ”for your convenience”, ”due to environment”, ”for unforseen reasons”. 

 

Good point. They could just copy Christine Duffy over at Carnival when they made cutbacks.....

 

"We have all experienced the impact of inflation, higher fuel prices and supply chain challenges. The food supply chain challenges have been further complicated by global politics and a myriad of laws regarding how we source products and how crops and animals are farmed and handled.”

 

“At Carnival, we have worked very hard to minimize the impact on our guests, committed to our promise to make Carnival the most memorable, fun, and best value vacation option on land or at sea.  We have reached a point with our food costs, however, where we must take some modest but specific actions, which we know most of you have done yourselves, whether with your dining out patterns or shopping to stock the refrigerator or pantry.”

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Most of the new capital is financed with fixed rate financing.  Just as with a fixed rate mortgage, all other things being equal, inflation actually makes it easier to pay it off.

 

Paying off the debt without restructure is a monumental task, especially given they still aren't making money and have said that they don't expect to turn positive until the second half of 2023. In other words, the debt keeps rising 😞.  I thought it interesting that last quarter NCL debt rose more than its competition. Pre-covid, NCLH was barely making enough to pay the current interest only payments (fixed or not).

 

 

 

[ChiefMateJRK]

32 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Paying off the debt without restructure is a monumental task, especially given they still aren't making money and have said that they don't expect to turn positive until the second half of 2023. In other words, the debt keeps rising 😞.  I thought it interesting that last quarter NCL debt rose more than its competition. Pre-covid, NCLH was barely making enough to pay the current interest only payments (fixed or not).

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.  I was merely pointing out that fixed rate debt in a period of unexpectedly high inflation can help, not hurt the overall equation.

[CruisinMaterial]

34 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Paying off the debt without restructure is a monumental task, especially given they still aren't making money and have said that they don't expect to turn positive until the second half of 2023. In other words, the debt keeps rising 😞.  I thought it interesting that last quarter NCL debt rose more than its competition. Pre-covid, NCLH was barely making enough to pay the current interest only payments (fixed or not).

 

 

 

You raise an excellent point. Instead of starting a new class of ship (which is getting mixed reviews), they should've waited and paid down some of the debt. As a result, with COVID and how FDR is running NCLH, I suspect it'll go the way of Renaissance Cruises from which he came. Circle of Life is a thing... even in the industry. Same scenario... new class of ships lead to its demise because they weren't financially healthy before going into a major world event (then it was 9/11... now COVID). The pain will only continue for those who continue to sail on NCL

[eroller]

It's a shame to see companies like NCLH using scapegoats like the environment and hotel industry to justify their cost cutting.  This is cost cutting plain and simple.  I just wish companies would be more transparent and give their customers a little more credit than lying with excuses.  So easy to see right through it. 

 

Since when has the cruise industry tried to emulate the hotel industry?  Never.  In fact they have spent their entire existence trying differentiate themselves from that industry.  Having a nightly turn-down service was one aspect of that differentiation.  Now suddenly NCL wants to trend with the hotel industry standard?   Honestly they might as well take it a step further and require you to pay for daily housekeeping if you want it.  Of course increase fares and the mandatory gratuity in the process.  The NCL way. 

 

I also take offense to the environment being used as a scapegoat for service cuts.  So convenient.  Just like "security" was used (and still is) for so many changes.  Like no more Bridge visits due to security .... but if you pay then suddenly security isn't an issue.  Yes Bridge visits used to be free.  If NCL was truly concerned about the environment they would eliminate water bottles/cartons all together onboard their ships, and have filtered water refill stations on every deck.  But that would cut into profits, so maybe the environment isn't that important after all?  Well it is if they can use it as an excuse to cut turn-down service.  Keeping with the "trends". 

 

I realize NCLH and other lines are hurting right now, but I'm not sure these piecemeal cutbacks are the answer.  They just erode the product and have the potential to damage the brand in the long run.  Especially when NCL is trying to position itself as a premium line instead of mass-market. This is not the way. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by eroller

[Cruising Lynne]

7 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The timing on this announcement is poor. To increase daily service charge at the same time as reducing daily service was a major blunder. Makes upper management look less than competent.

 

Unfortunately, the facts remain. NCL is currently 14 Billion (with a B) dollars in debt and will need more reductions in service to avoid restructuring (if restructuring can be avoided).

 

 

Reduce Del Rio's salary and bonuses. This could help a little!

[eroller]

14 minutes ago, CruisinMaterial said:

  As a result, with COVID and how FDR is running NCLH, I suspect it'll go the way of Renaissance Cruises from which he came. Circle of Life is a thing... even in the industry. 

 

 

And doing things like letting go the heads of Regent and Oceania and replacing one with your son.  Nepotisum is alive and well at NCLH.  I think 1/4 of the shoreside staff is somehow related to FDR.