Muster drills to return to pre-Covid style

[Honolulu Blue]

5 hours ago, nmuller328 said:

Curious- how do they do emergency drills in school, at your job - is it just a video- or a live drill? 

More to document my history, and hopelessly date myself, I'll answer this for me:

 

Other than the eMusters, the only video safety briefings I've had were on airplanes, and many of those were only partially on video with flight attendants pointing out the exits, etc.  The video with the Delta FA telling me that SMOKING WAS NOT ALLOWED like I was a naughty schoolboy is burned in my memory, probably permanently.

 

Speaking of school, we had quite a few drills there - mostly fire drills, though I recall a couple of tornado drills and at least one nuclear bomb drill.  I imagine some of the hipper school districts these days have active shooter drills.  I never had one of those.

 

In college, drills were very rare, IIRC.  I never had a drill in any classrooms.  The only fire "drills" we got in the residence halls were when some knucklehead pulled the alarm.  Those weren't much fun. 🤬

 

No drills at work; I've either worked at very small offices, at home, or at temporary locations.

 

Sorry for the distraction.

[ontheweb]

43 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

More to document my history, and hopelessly date myself, I'll answer this for me:

 

Other than the eMusters, the only video safety briefings I've had were on airplanes, and many of those were only partially on video with flight attendants pointing out the exits, etc.  The video with the Delta FA telling me that SMOKING WAS NOT ALLOWED like I was a naughty schoolboy is burned in my memory, probably permanently.

 

Speaking of school, we had quite a few drills there - mostly fire drills, though I recall a couple of tornado drills and at least one nuclear bomb drill.  I imagine some of the hipper school districts these days have active shooter drills.  I never had one of those.

 

In college, drills were very rare, IIRC.  I never had a drill in any classrooms.  The only fire "drills" we got in the residence halls were when some knucklehead pulled the alarm.  Those weren't much fun. 🤬

 

No drills at work; I've either worked at very small offices, at home, or at temporary locations.

 

Sorry for the distraction.

I think all schools now have active shooter drills. I believe at least NY state mandates them.

 

As for the nuclear drills, I remember them from when I was back in school. Hide under the desk and kiss your ass goodbye. 😢 I don't think anyone does them anymore. 😊

 

I do remember one fire drill in the freshmen dormitory in the middle of the night. After the loud noise, my roommate threw his alarm clock against the wall. 🤣

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Did they contact the Coast Guard?

 

And you make it sound like they did it to save money when they probably did it to make things safer,

That's pure speculation.  The two largest cruise lines, Royal and Carnival, believe the emuster makes things safer than the old muster.

 

"E-muster requires more staffing resources," Carnival noted in its statement to TPG. "But our experience with the e-muster process has been extremely positive, and we are able to provide our guests with critical safety information in a more individualized manner, including them understanding very specifically where their muster station is and how to get to it."

 

"Royal Caribbean Group created and implemented the Muster 2.0 experience to improve safety onboard, and enhance the overall guest experience," the company said in the statement. "Royal Caribbean Group and its brands have no plans to change its Muster 2.0 experience, which has received overwhelmingly positive feedback from guests worldwide.

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's pure speculation.  The two largest cruise lines, Royal and Carnival, believe the emuster makes things safer than the old muster.

 

"E-muster requires more staffing resources," Carnival noted in its statement to TPG. "But our experience with the e-muster process has been extremely positive, and we are able to provide our guests with critical safety information in a more individualized manner, including them understanding very specifically where their muster station is and how to get to it."

 

"Royal Caribbean Group created and implemented the Muster 2.0 experience to improve safety onboard, and enhance the overall guest experience," the company said in the statement. "Royal Caribbean Group and its brands have no plans to change its Muster 2.0 experience, which has received overwhelmingly positive feedback from guests worldwide.

And it is pure speculation that it makes it safer as there is no empirical evidence that proves that. Read again post #151 as to evidence pertaining to the old drill. No one has come up with the actual relevant quote from the Coast Guard,

 

Look, there were many changes initially post Covid. And no one really liked (though some found necessary) vaccine requirements and Covid testing. The one change passengers liked was the new easy e-muster. And I believe that it the real reason some lines are sticking with it unless forced to go back to the old drill.

[RocketMan275]

36 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And it is pure speculation that it makes it safer as there is no empirical evidence that proves that. Read again post #151 as to evidence pertaining to the old drill. No one has come up with the actual relevant quote from the Coast Guard,

 

Look, there were many changes initially post Covid. And no one really liked (though some found necessary) vaccine requirements and Covid testing. The one change passengers liked was the new easy e-muster. And I believe that it the real reason some lines are sticking with it unless forced to go back to the old drill.

And it is pure speculation that it makes it (the old style muster) safer that the emuster as there is no empirical evidence that proves that.

Why does safety training have to be discomforting to be effective?

[wcook]

3 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

The only fire "drills" we got in the residence halls were when some knucklehead pulled the alarm.  Those weren't much fun. 🤬

Oh my god, thank you. This triggered a memory I hadn’t thought about for decades. Mad crush on a girl in college. She got in big trouble because she and her roommates decided not to go out in the middle of the night when an (undoubtedly false) alarm went off in the middle of the night. Wonder what she’s doing now. 

[ExArkie]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

And it is pure speculation that it makes it (the old style muster) safer that the emuster as there is no empirical evidence that proves that.

Why does safety training have to be discomforting to be effective?

Safety training needs to be discomfiting (or possibly discomforting - the definitions are similar, although discomfit is a verb and discomfort is a noun) to an extent, i.e., it needs to make you uneasy about what can go wrong..."if we mess this up, we all die." It most assuredly does not need to be, nor should it be, uncomfortable. The more one is made physically uncomfortable during training, such as standing (or sitting) around for an extended period in a crowded venue, the less attention one pays to the topic.

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

And it is pure speculation that it makes it (the old style muster) safer that the emuster as there is no empirical evidence that proves that.

Why does safety training have to be discomforting to be effective?

There are examples of successful real musters on ships that have had the old style muster. As I previously wrote, one was detailed in post #151. You have no examples after the new e-muster.

 

We all also have the example of the Costa Concordia where not all the passengers were required to do the muster drill and the ensuing deaths. Cruise lines were forced after that to take the muster drills much more seriously.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

There are examples of successful real musters on ships that have had the old style muster. As I previously wrote, one was detailed in post #151. You have no examples after the new e-muster.

 

We all also have the example of the Costa Concordia where not all the passengers were required to do the muster drill and the ensuing deaths. Cruise lines were forced after that to take the muster drills much more seriously.

do  you honestly believe Royal and Carnival, the two biggest cruise lines, would keep the emuster if it could be demonstrated that the old fashioned muster was a safer alternative?

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

do  you honestly believe Royal and Carnival, the two biggest cruise lines, would keep the emuster if it could be demonstrated that the old fashioned muster was a safer alternative?

We are never going to agree, but yes. They know it is the one Covid related change that passengers liked and want to keep. And to them keeping passengers happy and money flowing in is priority #1 and priority #2 and priority #3 and so on.

 

 

[wcook]

50 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We all also have the example of the Costa Concordia where not all the passengers were required to do the muster drill and the ensuing deaths.

The trouble with the Concordia was with the corporation, the captain, senior officers and some of the crew. Now with passengers who hadn’t muster drilled yet. 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, wcook said:

The trouble with the Concordia was with the corporation, the captain, senior officers and some of the crew. Now with passengers who hadn’t muster drilled yet. 

Yet one of the first things that happened after the Costa Concordia disaster was that it was mandated that all cruise passengers had to attend a muster drill before the ship embarked. And I think it is safe to say that the cruise lines took the drills more seriously immediately after that.

[CruizinSusan70]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:36 PM, ontheweb said:

We are never going to agree, but yes. They know it is the one Covid related change that passengers liked and want to keep. And to them keeping passengers happy and money flowing in is priority #1 and priority #2 and priority #3 and so on.

As usual there are two different ways to attempt to add to the bottom line.  Carnival and Royal are keeping passengers happy by continuing to use the emuster method and thus keeping the money flowing by having those happy customers decide to continue sailing on their cruise line of choice even though there is a higher cost involved with the number of employees needed to administer the e-method.  On the other hand, NCL has decided to save money by going back to the old method and eliminate the higher cost involved with the number of employees needed to administer the e-method. 

 

Of course this is in conjunction with other ways of adding to the bottom line such as another price increase of the DSC up to 20 bucks a day, the elimination of two a day cleaning of cabins, the elimination of many of the entertainment options and the increase in the number of entrees now being surcharged in the specialty restaurants such as 10.00 now being added for the filet in Le Bistro.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

As usual there are two different ways to attempt to add to the bottom line.  Carnival and Royal are keeping passengers happy by continuing to use the emuster method and thus keeping the money flowing by having those happy customers decide to continue sailing on their cruise line of choice even though there is a higher cost involved with the number of employees needed to administer the e-method.  On the other hand, NCL has decided to save money by going back to the old method and eliminate the higher cost involved with the number of employees needed to administer the e-method. 

 

Of course this is in conjunction with other ways of adding to the bottom line such as another price increase of the DSC up to 20 bucks a day, the elimination of two a day cleaning of cabins, the elimination of many of the entertainment options and the increase in the number of entrees now being surcharged in the specialty restaurants such as 10.00 now being added for the filet in Le Bistro.

I agree that Carnival and Royal are looking at the bottom line by keeping customers happy. And as I wrote before, I think they also profit by not having to close down the bars.

[disneylover89]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:22 PM, RocketMan275 said:

do  you honestly believe Royal and Carnival, the two biggest cruise lines, would keep the emuster if it could be demonstrated that the old fashioned muster was a safer alternative?

It seems that NCL is more of a stickler for safety, not a bad thing but can be a bit annoying.  Royal and Carnival allow balcony partitions opened where NCL considers this a safety issue, just another example. 

[RocketMan275]

14 minutes ago, disneylover89 said:

It seems that NCL is more of a stickler for safety, not a bad thing but can be a bit annoying.  Royal and Carnival allow balcony partitions opened where NCL considers this a safety issue, just another example. 

It seems NCL is more of a stickler for saving money.

The old muster saves money.

Keeping the balcony particians closed saves money.

Etc.

Etc.

[RocketMan275]

30 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I agree that Carnival and Royal are looking at the bottom line by keeping customers happy. And as I wrote before, I think they also profit by not having to close down the bars.

I doubt the savings from bar closures is real.  Passengers just buy drinks in anticipation of the muster or buy them afterwards.  All the bar closures accomplish is shifting the timing of beverage purchases.

[ChiefMateJRK]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:54 AM, kochleffel said:

But what would stop me from cruising on a particular line is the old RCI style, where passengers were made to line up in military formation and stand silently that way for a long time before it even started, and dressed down Marine-style for using earbuds before the demonstration started.

That's pretty much what I just experienced on the Sky (except I don't believe anybody was spotted with earbuds).

[www3traveler]

58 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I doubt the savings from bar closures is real.  Passengers just buy drinks in anticipation of the muster or buy them afterwards.  All the bar closures accomplish is shifting the timing of beverage purchases.

You tend to forget that a number of bar staff ALSO HAVE Muster Station Duty as do  many other crew members for a short period of time.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:38 PM, MeHeartCruising said:

We saw this reported on a current live-report thread for the Bliss, but this article appears to confirm pre-Covid style muster drills will now be fleet wide.

 

https://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-cruise-line-muster-drill-process/

 

 

 

 

Good!

[scooter6139]

BESIDES the PointsGuy article, what other information is everyone basing the cost saving/cost cutting of either eMuster vs In Person muster?  

 

I don't like basing everything on a single source, especially when most of it is just coming from one line.

 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The old muster saves money.

Proof of this, please.  In another thread, I did some quick man-hour figures, and I see the two methods as a wash as far as total man-hours are concerned.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Keeping the balcony particians closed saves money.

Where did this come from?  No, keeping the balcony partitions closed is a safety consideration.

[PATRLR]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:43 AM, ontheweb said:

A responsible journalist would have asked NCL for their comments and also followed up with the Coast Guard in order to put the comments by Carnival in context.

"Responsible Journalist"?  Not The Points Guy.  Keep in mind, all of their articles start with this:

This post contains references to products from one or more of our advertisers. 

 

TPG is all about clicks, nothing more. 

 

On 1/29/2023 at 10:40 PM, New2cruise2022 said:

Pro Tip — Keep a drink in hand (alcoholic or whatever) so you have something to sip while you wait. 

Which cruise lines allow you to bring a drink to the muster?  I've had to dispose of drinks I brought to a muster.  Heck, my daughter who needs to drink a lot of water, couldn't bring her Nalgene bottle to the muster and essentially lost it because they also wouldn't let her bring it back to the room.

[PATRLR]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Keeping the balcony particians closed saves money.

I'll play along, how does NCL save money by keeping the partitions closed?