Rhine water levels 2023 and similar topics

[OwenSmith]

Is there an equivalent to this thread for water levels river cruising around Bordeaux ie. rivers Dordogne, Garonne and Gironde?

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, OwenSmith said:

Is there an equivalent to this thread for water levels river cruising around Bordeaux ie. rivers Dordogne, Garonne and Gironde?

Bordeaux river cruises are mainly in the tidal basins so river levels aren't important – but tides do affect the itineraries from week to week.

[OwenSmith]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Bordeaux river cruises are mainly in the tidal basins so river levels aren't important – but tides do affect the itineraries from week to week.

My understanding is that if the flow from the rivers is too low the ships can't get into some of the ports or landing stages even at high tide.

[rjp50]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:40 PM, notamermaid said:

Website for long-range forecast was offline. Back now. Kaub gauge 97cm Wednesday into Thursday. After that a rise to over 100cm again, 115cm likely. Likely to remain above 100cm until 22 July.

 

notamermaid

That sounds good.  We are currently in the Lauterbrunnen area and had considerable rain yesterday and this morning.  The river that runs through the valley was gushing almost like it was a year ago in May when we were here.  Not sure about the watersheds in this area but hoping that all that water finds its way into the Rhine for our Sunday departure from Basel. 

[Vilhelm2]

We will be leaving Amsterdam on our way to Budapest Saturday.  I want to thank many of you for the informative posts.  You have helped us with a better understanding of what we are about to experience.  I would especially like to thank Notamermaid for her insights.  This is a great forum and I plan to enjoy it long after our trip is over.

[Kristelle]

Hi Vilhelm2 - which company and ship are you on?

 

we are doing that Amsterdam to Budapest trip in September.

 

Interested in any comments you have while /after you are on it.

[Vilhelm2]

49 minutes ago, Kristelle said:

Hi Vilhelm2 - which company and ship are you on?

 

we are doing that Amsterdam to Budapest trip in September.

 

Interested in any comments you have while /after you are on it.

Kristelle, we will be with the Viking tours aboard the Viking Magni.  It looks like the river levels will be holding up for us. Hopefully you will be just as fortunate.  I will post any comments I think might be interesting or informative.

[notamermaid]

Kaub gauge at 107cm. 

 

notamermaid 

 

[trivia addict]

Just got off from the Viking Hervor from Basel to Amsterdam yesterday. There was no problem with water levels along this part of the Rhine. It was a wonderful cruise.

[notamermaid]

River has risen well after some rain. Kaub gauge at 146cm. Peak is expected to be tomorrow at just over 150cm. Relax about the water levels? Could be - long range forecast suggests figures over 110cm for basically the rest of July.  We will review later in the month.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:29 AM, MamaMags123 said:

I’m happy to hear that! Thank you for the updates! I’m curious if you know what the largest 1-week drop has been in the past (i.e. 2018/2022) and also what the longest stretch of days without a rise in the water levels is. I’m trying to get an idea of worst case senario for 30 July embarkation of Basel to Amsterdam. Thanks! 

Welcome to CC. As posted before end of July looks promising now. As regards historical figures, interesting question. Need a bit of time for that. Will try and find a sample drop/rise to give you an idea of what the river can do.

 

notamermaid

 

[Saberk9]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

long range forecast suggests figures over 110cm for basically the rest of July.  We will review later in the month.

Thank you so much for this news notamermaid! We head to Amsterdam next Sunday (July 23) and get on the Viking Sigrun on the 26th. This bit of information has made my day! Praying smooth sailing for us all. 

[notamermaid]

Had a thought - historic water levels. Perhaps it is helpful to understand that drops in river level at Kaub vary during the year. A drop when being on high figures is faster than a drop when being on low figures. You are faster down from 200cm to 150cm than you are from 150cm to 100cm. It again slows down a bit more with figures under 100cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Peak at Kaub gauge earlier this morning. Now at 150cm. 135cm forecast for tomorrow morning.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Saberk9]

What is the maximum and minimum water level to prevent the longships from sailing the Rhine? 

[notamermaid]

21 hours ago, Saberk9 said:

What is the maximum and minimum water level to prevent the longships from sailing the Rhine? 

The maximum is easy to say. It is the figure set by the authorities, the official ban on river traffic. Depending on stretch. For the section that includes Kaub it is 640cm. The minimum is decided by the captain of each individual ship - to give you an idea, we can more or less say that such a ship of 135m length at Kaub can sail at 90cm and cannot sail at 40cm. There is no ban on river traffic in drought.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Kaub gauge better than had been forecast - it is at 139cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Before I get to back to historic water levels - question posted by MamaMags123 - here is the Niedrigwasserbericht of the authorities. This is an elaborate report, regularly updated every week if necessary, to describe the low water situation in Germany. Basically it says in its 2nd update that although there has been rain the rivers are too low for the season overall and the weather this week will not bring any real change to the situation. It also notes that the rivers are warmer than is normal at this time of year. Just ignore all the text if you are not familiar with German, but have a look at the photo:

https://www.bafg.de/DE/07_Nachrichten/230713_nw-bericht.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

This is the mouth of the Moselle at Koblenz, looking upstream at the dam and wall of the lock. The river flows freely on this short stretch towards the Rhine of course so the two rivers react here and the Moselle is low when the Rhine is very low. This can be tricky for docking at Koblenz on the Moselle side. As far as I know in the current conditions this is still fine. This Google maps section should help to illustrate:

You can see the ships docked at Peter-Altmeier-Ufer.

 

At the dam/weir is an information centre on river fauna, called Mosellum Erlebniswelt.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:29 AM, MamaMags123 said:

I’m happy to hear that! Thank you for the updates! I’m curious if you know what the largest 1-week drop has been in the past (i.e. 2018/2022) and also what the longest stretch of days without a rise in the water levels is. I’m trying to get an idea of worst case senario for 30 July embarkation of Basel to Amsterdam. Thanks! 

Right, we have established that things are looking promising for your departure date. But you asked two interesting questions. I admit they are proving a challenge for this amateur girl so I hope I can get close to answering them. A drop in a week can be huge. As I have mentioned in a previous post, the drop tends to be bigger overall when the figures are higher, i.e. the water level is high, which is roughly seasonal of course - this is a generalization, not a gospel. If I say a drop of 100cm is possible that may cause an unnecessary concern, seeing that you are wondering about a cruise in a relative low water situation. If we look at a past month when we were at this kind of level it looked like this, as an example. This is Kaub in August 2020:

 

 

As regards the longest stretch of days without a rise: there is always a bit of fluctuation and a small rise can occur from day to day, but if we look at this from the perspective of river cruising and choose figures that are below 80cm at Kaub for a long time then 2018 is probably the worst year overall and there I have counted the days in the table, not all of them just the longest stretch in that year of consecutive days under 80cm. Get the brandy ready and sit down...    It ran from end of September until beginning of December - 67 days.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

Okay, change in the weather pattern and substantially adjusted forecast for Kaub - including long term forecast. We see a bigger drop than was anticipated three days ago. No need to panic but I need to be honest in that the level will most likely fall below 100cm on Saturday with Sunday or Monday showing the lowest level (which may or may not be around 90cm). Tuesday may see the beginning of a rise.

 

notamermaid

 

[Saberk9]

Is it fair to say that 70cm or above would allow for the Viking longships to sail Kaube?  Or, is the "90cm" the crucial number and left to the individual captain?  

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, Saberk9 said:

Is it fair to say that 70cm or above would allow for the Viking longships to sail Kaube?  Or, is the "90cm" the crucial number and left to the individual captain?  

I would not call the 90cm a crucial figure for sailing or not sailing. From what we have experienced over the last few years we can see this number as one that may see - or soon see - adjustments in docking locations, slower sailing, meaning something river cruisers "can live with" but it is a figure to watch and one may prefer to not see a further decline. All in all I would say decisions for or against sailing are made closer to the 70cm than the 90cm. Ships can sail below 70cm, other companies tend to sail with their 135m ships when the figures are just that bit lower than Viking but, again, it is the decision of each captain - or in more and more situations the choice of the captains on the corresponding ships that prepare for the swap. 70cm is not the figure at which 135m ships stop sailing automatically. The ship swap is quite honestly a great idea in my opinion and now usually works very smoothly. It may happen at 68cm, or 66cm, or 64cm... It tends to be just the Rhine Gorge that needs "bridging" but it can be more. 2018 was an abysmal year and if you want to subject yourself to that type of drama the thread for 2018 is a fascinating read. But, you have been warned... The title of the thread is the same as this one, just exchange the year.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[gnome12]

48 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

The ship swap is quite honestly a great idea in my opinion and now usually works very smoothly.

While the ship swap is a decent reaction to a bad situation, it is definitely not ideal. I choose to cruise so that I can unpack once and then just go about my activities. Finding that I have to pack everything up (and making sure that I actually have everything) in the middle of a cruise is not a picnic. Would I do it? Yes, since it beats the alternatives. But it does take away from the pleasure of a cruise.

[SGinNE]

Overall we had no issues last week. Yes the gorge was low, and we had to leave a few ports 30 minutes early due to the slower travel,  but there was no worry. 

We made it, and let me tell you, it was fantastic! We loved just about every port, and cruising in around the monument in the early morning at Koblenz was incredible. Absolutely fell in love with the charm of Rudesheim! 

We only had rain in Amsterdam about an hour after boarding the ship. Then no rain until we were sailing to Basel, where it poured for a while. 

Our first river cruise and it was above our expectations. 

[notamermaid]

6 minutes ago, SGinNE said:

Our first river cruise and it was above our expectations. 

That is lovely to read. Sounds like there may be another river cruise for you in the future.

 

Cruising around Deutsches Eck is great, I agree. I only know daytime, would love to see it at sunrise.

 

notamermaid