Future of Norway Cruises?

[Colorado Klutch]

I am new to cruising and recently booked an Alaska cruise with Holland America. If Mrs. Klutch enjoy the experience, I was thinking of booking a future Norway cruise with HAL. However, I'm learning there is a lot of anti-cruise ship sentiment in Norway and they will soon ban cruise ships in the fjords. 

Is anyone following this situation who might have updated information? I did three Northern Atlantic exercises when I was in the Navy and went into two fjords. The experience was amazing and I was hoping to share it with my family. Maybe not...

[vicd1969]

I think the ban on non-zero emission ships, if enacted, won't be official until 2026. The ban may not be applicable to some of the fjords that aren't UNESCO world heritage sites. In any case, it may be too soon to know for sure how the ban is going to be implemented. You should be safe booking in 2023 or 2024.

[ski ww]

We are booked on a HAL Norway cruise July 2023. Enjoy which ever one you pick.

[Colorado Klutch]

Thanks.

I've seen pictures of anti-cruiser signs posted at Norwegian ports. While this isn't particularly welcoming, have there been active protests or demonstrations?

One sign said, "Go back your boat and return as a proper tourist". Well, considering how expensive it is to visit Norway as a "proper tourist", it's either as a cruise passenger or not at all. 

[FrankieSue]

If there are protest signs and demonstrations at cruise ports, there should be some at airports too….  But maybe protestors do not want to protest at airport since flying is their mode of transport from one demonstration to the other!!

[BetsyS.]

Thanks to all for the info. 

[Colorado Klutch]

It appears there have been active protests, but no physical altercations. Locals complain about cruise passengers peaking into their kitchen windows and even attempting to enter private homes. Obviously, it would help if cruise passengers were simply considerate when visiting ports.

As is typical, the local merchants LOVE the cruise ships since they depend on the income. Maybe the protesters are people who live on trust funds and have no concept of what it is to earn a living? They complain that cruise ship employees are mistreated. No doubt some have been mistreated, but I have visited many parts of the planet where people have no opportunity to earn a living. Cruise ships jobs are highly coveted. They work hard and are proud of their jobs. 

Yeah, these are all very "big picture" issues we can't solve. I just want to be aware of what I might encounter if I book a Norway cruise. 

[CruiserBruce]

Sterotype much?

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, FrankieSue said:

If there are protest signs and demonstrations at cruise ports, there should be some at airports too….  But maybe protestors do not want to protest at airport since flying is their mode of transport from one demonstration to the other!!

Also considering how dependent many of the towns along the Fjords are on Ferries, which market themselves as cruises as well,  it is rather comical.

[Colorado Klutch]

11 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Sterotype much?

 

Are you referring to the protestors? I simply asked a question. Sorry, didn't mean to lump all protestors into one category. 

[HUNKY]

I neither saw nor experienced any anti-cruise, or anti-tourist activity during my Norway or Northern European cruises.

 

Many tourist destinations, such as, Amsterdam, Bar Harbor, and Key West have those residents which are against any and all tourists.  However, I've found the majority of locals welcome tourists, especially those who respect the areas they visit.

 

FYI - I have a home in a tourist town.

[Red Haired Lady]

I did a 14 day cruise in Norway last summer and saw no protesters. It is a great cruise.

[OlsSalt]

Air pollution was stated as one Norway concern - in these tight fjords. Same protests on the West Coast of California- which also add black water dumping, and harming the sea life. They do ignore cargo ships which are far more numerous,  and there is a definite touch in class envy protesting cruise ships only, which they see as only a rich man's toy. 

 

That said, we have over time seen many towns with local charms totally ruined by frequent mega-ship cruise traffic.  Mainly in the Caribbean, but even now on the Mexican Riviera - it is not a 100% happy relationships nor even rewarding for cruise travel exploration. 

 

A totally impossible situation - We  like going to "untouched" locations, but realize by going we am touching them. The DelSol-Diamonds International acid test of cruise destinations. It they are there, it is too late.

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Air pollution was stated as one Norway concern - in these tight fjords. Same protests on the West Coast of California- which also add black water dumping, and harming the sea life. They do ignore cargo ships which are far more numerous,  and there is a definite touch in class envy protesting cruise ships only, which they see as only a rich man's toy. 

 

That said, we have over time seen many towns with local charms totally ruined by frequent mega-ship cruise traffic.  Mainly in the Caribbean, but even now on the Mexican Riviera - it is not a 100% happy relationships nor even rewarding for cruise travel exploration. 

 

A totally impossible situation - We  like going to "untouched" locations, but realize by going we am touching them. The DelSol-Diamonds International acid test of cruise destinations. It they are there, it is too late.

 

Yes, a part of the problem is sheer numbers. The mega-ships dump 5000 or more passengers into a fairly small area. I've been in Bar Harbor when just one ship, under 2500 people was in port, and the sidewalks were so busy that you could barely get anywhere. I can understand why they start to limit the number of cruise passengers who can visit on any day. Yes, we pay port taxes and buy tours. But we don't buy hotel rooms and often don't eat ashore. And when a place gets a reputation for being overrun by cruisers, the people who do stay at hotels don't want to go any more.

 

I couldn't agree more about the DelSol etc effect. You are funneled through a shopping mall if you want to go anywhere. I was doing some port research for next winter's cruise. I looked at Googlemaps street view in Aruba. There were three ships in port, but I couldn't see anyone. I think it could have been early in the morning (based on seeing long shadows) before people were out and about. But doing a virtual walk down a few streets, I saw many small local stores that had closed down--and these pictures were pre-covid. But they are behind the huge shopping mall, where Addidas, Nautica, Starbucks. et al are still in business.

[cbr663]

This is worth the watch of the impact cruise ships can have on small towns:

 

 

[Pickalily, Wilts]

If you want to visit Norway, do it.  It's beautiful.  Norwegians are a civilised and polite bunch of people, but they do have concerns about the leviathans which could pull in and decant 4 or 5 thousand people into small villages.

I was surprised to see Flam on our next itinerary, having read that cruise ships would be banned.  Not sure that HAL ships can be classed as huge (in their eyes), but we have visited that port before and will treat it and the inhabitants with respect.

 

I don't blame them for wanting to preserve their environment.  It's really special.

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Ohhhh, nooo! The arrival of the ships looked so ominous. I recognized Stavanger immediately. The street they show is near the Sardine Cannery Museum, which I still remember as one of the most fun museum visits of the trip. It's a lovely quiet neighborhood, and for them to have to look at those huge ships--and maybe listen to their blared music would be terrible. 

[PACD_JG]

2 hours ago, Colorado Klutch said:

As is typical, the local merchants LOVE the cruise ships since they depend on the income. Maybe the protesters are people who live on trust funds and have no concept of what it is to earn a living?

 

Or maybe Norwegians don't need your money?  Same with the Mainers and the Conchs?

 

Maybe I'm jaded because I went to middle and high school in Key West...but tourists generally suck, and cruising into a port for an afternoon and saying you've travelled is only a slight notch above landing at an airport and saying you've been there.

 

And this talk of leviathans and five thousand passengers.  As if HAL's 2-3 thousand passengers are any better?

[Colorado Klutch]

55 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

 

Or maybe Norwegians don't need your money?  Same with the Mainers and the Conchs?

 

Maybe I'm jaded because I went to middle and high school in Key West...but tourists generally suck, and cruising into a port for an afternoon and saying you've travelled is only a slight notch above landing at an airport and saying you've been there.

 

And this talk of leviathans and five thousand passengers.  As if HAL's 2-3 thousand passengers are any better?

 

This is an age-old conflict. Many people in tourist towns hate tourists, but the local economy depends on tourists. Certainly the Norwegian protesters don't need my money, but clearly some Norwegians do.

Are you suggesting flying into a country on an airplane and driving to a town is being more of a "traveler"? Seriously, I'm asking for your opinion here and I'm not being sarcastic. 

I've never lived in Key West, but I've worked there off and on a LOT since the 1980s. Yeah, some of the locals hate tourists, but without tourism, only independently wealthy people could live there. 

 

I have also worked in Maine, but not as much as Key West. Very nice people in Maine, but the locals always told me how much they loved their state and how hard it is to make a living there. I would visit Bath Ironworks. Building ships is hard work, but it was still hard to get. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[PACD_JG]

15 minutes ago, Colorado Klutch said:

Are you suggesting flying into a country on an airplane and driving to a town is being more of a "traveler"? Seriously, I'm asking for your opinion here and I'm not being sarcastic. 

Can't stand the word "traveler," but since you're asking which tourist is better - obviously the one that stays the longest (and therefore actually puts more money into the economy).

 

I'll give you a for instance on my Thanksgiving cruise on NS to the Easter Caribbean.  First stop, Grand Turk.  The wife and I actually bought two drinks from Margaritaville, about $20.  San Juan - wife bought a mug from Starbucks.  Bought a sticker for NPS passport and a water from a street vendor.  (NPS was free for me).  Total, about $20.  St. Thomas - not a dime.  HMC - some beers and soda, but all on my cruise account so not sure how much the Bahamas received.  Besides my "port fees", how did I contribute to the economy? 

[Hlitner]

We have posted about this relatively recent anti-cruise ship attitude that seems to be sweeping parts of the world, including in our own USA.  I think part of the problem lies in the size of many new ships, some of which carry over 7000 souls (counting the crew).  In Norway you also have the fall-out from the Viking Sky near-disaster which woke many folks to the environmental risks associated with ships.  

 

The reality is that cruise ship passengers contribute relatively little to the local economy while stressing the infrastructure.  Many cruisers tend to stick with structured "excursions" which are generally losers for most of the locals.  I imagine we will eventually see more and more mega ships going to fewer ports.  Small luxury line ships will still be welcomed at many places, but that is a niche market that leaves out a majority of cruisers that either cannot afford the cost, or who are not accepting of small ship cruising.

 

Hank

[81Zoomie]

We are visiting Norway on HAL this summer.  We would have preferred a smaller ship, but our itinerary is one of the only ones that visited Honningsvag and Stavanger.  We try to patronize the local establishments and avoid the “cruise line alley” venues.  As for tourists, I grew up in Ft Lauderdale and have seen way too much of spring breakers and the weekend cruise crush at the FLL airport.  As a rule, we try to collect memories, enjoy learning about other cultures, and be respectful of the places we visit.

Edited January 30, 2023 by 81Zoomie

[Colorado Klutch]

44 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

Can't stand the word "traveler," but since you're asking which tourist is better - obviously the one that stays the longest (and therefore actually puts more money into the economy).

 

I'll give you a for instance on my Thanksgiving cruise on NS to the Easter Caribbean.  First stop, Grand Turk.  The wife and I actually bought two drinks from Margaritaville, about $20.  San Juan - wife bought a mug from Starbucks.  Bought a sticker for NPS passport and a water from a street vendor.  (NPS was free for me).  Total, about $20.  St. Thomas - not a dime.  HMC - some beers and soda, but all on my cruise account so not sure how much the Bahamas received.  Besides my "port fees", how did I contribute to the economy? 

 

Thank you. I think I understand your points. Are port fees a big contribution? Those go to the government so the average local doesn't see that. 

Interestingly, I'm a Disney-head and there is always much debate about day visitors to Disney parks vs. Annual Passholders. Recently, Walt Disney Company has significantly cut back on Annual Passes and added many restrictions. Seems similar to the local visitors vs. cruisers debate. 

[Colorado Klutch]

37 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We have posted about this relatively recent anti-cruise ship attitude that seems to be sweeping parts of the world, including in our own USA.  I think part of the problem lies in the size of many new ships, some of which carry over 7000 souls (counting the crew).  In Norway you also have the fall-out from the Viking Sky near-disaster which woke many folks to the environmental risks associated with ships.  

 

The reality is that cruise ship passengers contribute relatively little to the local economy while stressing the infrastructure.  Many cruisers tend to stick with structured "excursions" which are generally losers for most of the locals.  I imagine we will eventually see more and more mega ships going to fewer ports.  Small luxury line ships will still be welcomed at many places, but that is a niche market that leaves out a majority of cruisers that either cannot afford the cost, or who are not accepting of small ship cruising.

 

Hank

 

I'm not interested in booking on a megaship, but I know many people like them. Cruise lines are building more of these. So are they eventually going to cruise to the line's private island and nowhere else?

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, HUNKY said:

I neither saw nor experienced any anti-cruise, or anti-tourist activity during my Norway or Northern European cruises.

 

Many tourist destinations, such as, Amsterdam, Bar Harbor, and Key West have those residents which are against any and all tourists.  However, I've found the majority of locals welcome tourists, especially those who respect the areas they visit.

 

FYI - I have a home in a tourist town.

Actually 

with Bar Harbor and Key West it is specifically the number of cruise ship tourists that they want to reduce.  In the case of Key West in 2019 Cruise ships delivered 50 percent of the tourists but that 50% of the tourists provided only 15% of the tourism revenue.  They are perfectly happy with the land based tourists which deliver most of the tourism revenue.

 

With Amsterdam it is a bit more complex with multiple groups of tourists they want to get red of (red light, drug, bachelor parties, etc as well as reduce the number of cruise ship passengers)