In-person muster drills?

[farmecologist]

8 hours ago, JIMESOPUS said:

Just off the BA  ( 1/29/23 ), here is something to view ( I'm not a subscriber to his channel ), exactly what what we experienced the week before his cruise. Total chaos and confusion.

 

 

Holy frack...this looks freaking horrible.  NCL is obviously complete an utter denial about covid ( and other viruses ) spreading on their ships.  Honestly...people packed in shoulder to shoulder...what the F.  👎  

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by farmecologist

[BenDover]

My gripe was that NCL sent me at least 3 emails before the cruise making me watch that stupid safety video - only to get on board and find out we STILL have to do the in person drill 😡

[farmecologist]

20 minutes ago, zgscl said:

From a strictly a guest perspective, the e-muster is an absolutely no brainer. So much easier and much more pleasant of an experience. I would think that the advantage for the cruise line is to give the crew real practice with crowd management (and all the other behind the scenes things we don't see like sweeping the ship if they do this during the muster drill). Ironically the people who show up late are rewarded as they don't have to stand in the crowded room for half an hour waiting for themselves to show up. 

 

Yes....unfortunately, it seems like the "strategy" is to delay getting to the muster station as long as possible....sigh.  However, they certainly are not creating an environment where people WANT to show up early or on time.  🙄

[chengkp75]

48 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

you still haven't addressed why RCCI and Carnival consider the emuster a superior way to comply with the muster requirements. 

Nor, have you addressed the claim that the major reason NCL has returned to the inperson muster is not safety, but to save money.

"Someone" at RCI and Carnival, not necessarily anyone who has a background in safety training, "considers" it to be better.  And, what statistics does "the points guy" use to bolster his argument that the change was to save money?  Where are the timesheets?  Where is the payroll data?

[zgscl]

5 minutes ago, farmecologist said:

 

Yes....unfortunately, it seems like the "strategy" is to delay getting to the muster station as long as possible....sigh.  However, they certainly are not creating an environment where people WANT to show up early or on time.  🙄

That is honestly what I am thinking...I know sometimes if people no-show they get a do-over the next day. I would never try either of these myself, but I could see why someone would risk it. Especially if you have claustrophobia or a hard time standing. I think I may go very early with a book and/or ipad so that I can hopefully get a nice seat. 

[zgscl]

Wait I think I have it figured out. In about one month NCL will announce "our return to in-person muster drills has been an enormous success. For your convenience we will now allow you to complete the e-muster before hand for a $25 per person fee so that you can stay in your cabin while everyone else does the in-person drill" 😂

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Yes, I will tell them to consider safety first especially since it's been established that the inperson muster inferior to the emulster/video from a safety perspective.

 

Since there has not yet been a need for a real call for muster (as there has been with the old way), how can this have been established? It has been asserted by a few cruise lines. And it has been accepted by you as gospel truth.

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, zgscl said:

I think I may go very early with a book and/or ipad so that I can hopefully get a nice seat. 

Nice seat?!  We had to stand under a lifeboat in a Covid cloud for about 40 minutes of nothing.

[zgscl]

Just now, ChiefMateJRK said:

Nice seat?!  We had to stand under a lifeboat in a Covid cloud for about 40 minutes of nothing.

Oh I think maybe it depends on the ship. I believe some use inside lounges and some outside decks. That would make a difference in strategy. 

[PTC DAWG]

8 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

We were in person on the Sky last week and it was a wasted 40 minutes of my life that I will never get back.  We showed up a minute or two early, were rudely ordered to stand first here, no wait move there, etc.  A slew of people packed in like rats under a lifeboat (que the Covid spreading discussion).  Did nothing for 15 minutes while they goofed around and checked in the random late arrival.  Then some skinny kid showed us how to put on a life vest and he wrapped the waste strap around himself twice (which was the only humor for a few of us larger passengers).  Then the guy came on over the speakers and said a bunch of stuff nobody could understand because of a) language differences, b) crappy acoustics and c) a bunch of people talking about where to get their next meal/drink/entertainment/etc.  I did make out that he was also giving us a general safety briefing that included, and I'm not making this up, watch your fingers when you close doors and drawers so that you don't pinch them?  Really?? 🤣

Sounds about right… 🙂

[RocketMan275]

11 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Since there has not yet been a need for a real call for muster (as there has been with the old way), how can this have been established? It has been asserted by a few cruise lines. And it has been accepted by you as gospel truth.

No, not me.  It has been accepted by the two largest cruise lines, RCCI and CCL, that the emuster is superior training, as gospel truth.  

[ontheweb]

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, not me.  It has been accepted by the two largest cruise lines, RCCI and CCL, that the emuster is superior training, as gospel truth.  

Probably accepted as a way to make money as they do not have to close the bars like they do during the real muster drill!

[farmecologist]

Per the video above...NOT a good look for NCL to have such a poor muster during a vloggers cruise.  Wow...I didn't realize that at first.   🤣🤣

[ChiefMateJRK]

I think there are three types of people in this thread.  Those who "think" that the current in-person muster is a good idea, those who "think" it's a bad idea and those who "know" what it's like right now.  I'm in the third group and no amount of conjecture on the internet will change what I experienced two weeks ago tomorrow.  If they can fix it by getting everybody to show up on time, magically increasing deck space to allow some distancing, make everybody shut up while the teacher is talking (that rarely worked in elementary school in the absence of a metal ruler) and upgrading the audio and speaker so that it is easy for every passenger (even the hearing impaired) to hear and comprehend, then I'll accept that it is an "okay" process (it still won't provide anything more than the video version).  Until then, I'll remain unconvinced that there is any logical basis to force every passenger to endure this mess.

[PATRLR]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:56 AM, RocketMan275 said:

The points guy thinks Norwegiann decision has more to do with saving money than safety.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/cruise-ship-muster-drill-changes-reasons/

 

Of course it's about money, isn't everything NCL about money? 

I suspect I'm one of the more vocal people around here when it comes to calling out NCL for doing things in the name of saving money or increasing revenue, but, in this case I don't think TPG's reasoning stands up:

"Cruise lines that use e-mustering must position crew members at muster stations for several hours on the first day of a cruise so that passengers can visit the stations for a brief orientation — a requirement of e-mustering. The result is that a significant number of crew members are tied up on embarkation day with the e-mustering process."
 

During the in-person muster, everyone must still check-in.  If NCL were truly worried about losing staff for an extended period, why couldn't they just say that everyone must report to their muster station at X-o-clock (as they do for the in person muster), check them in and let them go (vs check them in and make them hang around)?

I suspect @chengkp75's statements of the muster being just as much for crew training as it for passenger training is accurate and can only assume the other lines have figured out a way to accomplish this crew training without using the passengers. Now, it's quite possible that what the other cruise lines are doing costs money and that's where NCL is saving...

 

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:13 AM, fyrmrs said:

Have heard NCL is the only company going back to in-person muster drills. Anyone experience this and how was it?

 

Im glad they are back!

[zzdoug]

17 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

you still haven't addressed why RCCI and Carnival consider the emuster a superior way to comply with the muster requirements. 

Nor, have you addressed the claim that the major reason NCL has returned to the inperson muster is not safety, but to save money.

 

I don't know the answer of how the different cruise lines came to different conclusions but I've been in situations where reasonable people can draw different conclusions from the same information.  Also, here are a few reasons that potentially could sway things in different directions.   (Just brainstorming here.  I fully admit these are ideas I pulled out of my a$$ and they could be completely incorrect so no need to be harsh.)

 

• My last cruise was on Carnival in October 2021, and most of the staff we interacted with said they were long-time employees, whereas people on this board report many new employees.  That is anecdotal information but if in fact NCL has had to onboard comparatively more staff recently, NCL might think they need more practice managing crowds.
• Different people have different relative opinions of different risks. It's possible that NCL management assumed that their customers being in a crowded room together was less of a risk than their employees not getting that crowd management practice.
• Maybe the difference between NCL and Carnival/RC is that with many guests using the free-at-sea package, NCL has less to lose by closing bars etc , whereas if most Carnival guests are paying by the drink, they view the first afternoon of the cruise as a time when people are very apt to buy drinks.

 

In any case, It is not surprising that the new in-person muster these first few cruises with that new policy didn't go well.  I hope they learn from their mistakes and work out the kinks.  Thinking back to when I last went on a cruise with an in-person muster drill pre-pandemic, I remember it being mildly annoying but nothing like how people have been describing it here.  Hopefully they will get things ironed out and if they keep the in-person muster policy, they won't have so many arbitrary and onerous rules and it will take less time.

 

[scooter6139]

The crew's are not practiced in doing the full muster drills either, so they have to get training in doing that weekly again.  And cruisers need to get re-trained (or just trained) on doing full in-person muster drills.  Probably 99.5% of all cruisers are not here on CC looking up info and complaining about changes.

 

Personally I always despised them as a waste of my had earned vacation time, but they were required.  eMuster was a way to do it during a Pandemic, which I loved.  Most people like eMuster as it's more convenient for them and easier to do.  I'll do whatever the cruise line and maritime authorities say I need to do, just let me get going on my vacation.

[truckswain]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:38 AM, JIMESOPUS said:

Just off the BA  ( 1/29/23 ), here is something to view ( I'm not a subscriber to his channel ), exactly what what we experienced the week before his cruise. Total chaos and confusion.

 

 

Interesting point in the video' "Would you become a one issue cruiser?"   I know I would not but this is yet another cost cutting decision by NCL the impacts the cruise experience which means March will be our last NCL cruise. 

[disneylover89]

18 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

you still haven't addressed why RCCI and Carnival consider the emuster a superior way to comply with the muster requirements. 

Nor, have you addressed the claim that the major reason NCL has returned to the inperson muster is not safety, but to save money.

Just curious, how do they save money?  Not being snarky, I just don't understand how. 

[davencl]

17 hours ago, BenDover said:

My gripe was that NCL sent me at least 3 emails before the cruise making me watch that stupid safety video - only to get on board and find out we STILL have to do the in person drill 😡

Wow you got off easy.  I think I had to watch it around 6 times.  🙂 🙂 

[farmecologist]

44 minutes ago, truckswain said:

 

Interesting point in the video' "Would you become a one issue cruiser?"   I know I would not but this is yet another cost cutting decision by NCL the impacts the cruise experience which means March will be our last NCL cruise. 

 

If you believe the posts around here, there is a lot more than "one issue" with NCL lately.  🤣

[JIMESOPUS]

50 minutes ago, truckswain said:

 

Interesting point in the video' "Would you become a one issue cruiser?"   I know I would not but this is yet another cost cutting decision by NCL the impacts the cruise experience which means March will be our last NCL cruise. 

@truckswain This one issue didn't bother us and really the issues was those who never did a muster drill or didn't want to be there. We had multiple issues on two cruises this year, mainly due to crew shortage. We went ahead and cancelled three NCL cruises for next year. We have a cruise on the Escape in April, and depending how that cruise is will decided our Viva TA cruise in November,  which NCL has already screwed up.

So to answer your question, no for a single issue - yes if they keep on the current course.

Jim 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

During the in-person muster, everyone must still check-in.  If NCL were truly worried about losing staff for an extended period, why couldn't they just say that everyone must report to their muster station at X-o-clock (as they do for the in person muster), check them in and let them go (vs check them in and make them hang around)?

Let's look at the man-hours claims.  The typical ship has 16 lifeboats, so there would be 16 muster stations.  How many crew are at the e-muster check in at each station?  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say, 4, two to check people in and two to do the demonstration.  That means 64 crew.  How long are the check in stations manned?  Let's say from 10am to 5pm, or 7 hours.  That is 448 man-hours for the e-muster.  

 

Now, let's look at the traditional muster.  While passengers may think that there are only a couple of crew at each muster station, and only for less than an hour, the actual passenger muster drill utilizes around 3-400 crew, depending on the size of the ship, and they have to have time to prepare for the drill, so their time would be around 1.5 hours, so 450-600 man-hours.

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

I suspect @chengkp75's statements of the muster being just as much for crew training as it for passenger training is accurate and can only assume the other lines have figured out a way to accomplish this crew training without using the passengers. Now, it's quite possible that what the other cruise lines are doing costs money and that's where NCL is saving...

No, what the other lines are doing is "simulating" training with crowds, which is not the same thing as handling crowds, and I feel that crew training has suffered during the e-muster usage, and will continue to suffer if the e-muster continues.  Want an example?  See the NCL drill the PP was complaining about, where the crew had no handle on handling the crowds.  Now, which is more similar to a real emergency, the e-muster where they handle 10-20 people at a time, or where they are faced with the entire ship heading to muster stations?  So, ask yourself, if the old musters were considered to merely be a waste of time, but with the training the crew has had during the e-muster period, when they actually have to do a passenger muster, and it is described as a shambles, have they been receiving better training?  This just makes my point.

[cheersforbeers]

42 minutes ago, davencl said:

Wow you got off easy.  I think I had to watch it around 6 times.  🙂 🙂 

We did a B2B in January 15-29 and we received a total of 16 videos, 2 each on edocs, 14 utube vids which one can fast forward, no big deal it was part of the process.