New houskeeping and tipping

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, RD64 said:

Yes - to each his own.

 

Especially since the gratuities have not gone down in response to the severe degradation of service shipwide, in fact they've increased them twice in the past year - and if we listen to people here - we are 'cheapskates' if we don't add more besides!

 

Never is the blame placed where it belongs - on Carnival's head.

[sanmarcosman]

40 minutes ago, resetjet said:

I see in the near future one of the main cruise lines changing the model.  If i were the guy in charge i would simply add the tip amount($100 a week). To the fare.  

Be sure to allow a big increase in cruise fare prices to pay the U.S. corporate payroll taxes the cruise lines have avoided by doing things as they are. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by sanmarcosman

[resetjet]

47 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Especially since the gratuities have not gone down in response to the severe degradation of service shipwide, in fact they've increased them twice in the past year - and if we listen to people here - we are 'cheapskates' if we don't add more besides!

 

Never is the blame placed where it belongs - on Carnival's head.

Well thats the problem and the solutions arent working.  When you take away the merit system and pile the work on top to already frustrated employees by raising tips to throw them a bone.   Again the system is such that they are paid the same no matter what they do.  Especially if they are turning in cash like so many here believe.

[Elaine5715]

5 minutes ago, resetjet said:

Well thats the problem and the solutions arent working.  When you take away the merit system and pile the work on top to already frustrated employees by raising tips to throw them a bone.   Again the system is such that they are paid the same no matter what they do.  Especially if they are turning in cash like so many here believe.

What evidence do you have that suggests crew instead steal from coworkers? Taking away the mythical merit system, piling work up and throwing $1 a day at employees is the corporate way

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, ruru107 said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but do you really need your room cleaned twice a day? 

The evening service was a bit of straightening up, fresh towels, turn down service, towel animal and putting the lights on in a bedtime setting.  It was quite lovely to return to each evening.  

[mz-s]

2 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

The evening service was a bit of straightening up, fresh towels, turn down service, towel animal and putting the lights on in a bedtime setting.  It was quite lovely to return to each evening.  

you still can return to it - just not on cut-rate lines like Carnival.  

[resetjet]

29 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

What evidence do you have that suggests crew instead steal from coworkers? Taking away the mythical merit system, piling work up and throwing $1 a day at employees is the corporate way

Its called human nature.  The merit system is not mythical.  Its also human nature.  Corporations who do not follow it go out of business.  They can only ride on the backs of their employees so long.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, resetjet said:

Its called human nature.  The merit system is not mythical.  Its also human nature.  Corporations who do not follow it go out of business.  They can only ride on the backs of their employees so long.

I an guessing you don't work in large corporations.  Merit left the building with competence.  

[Purvis1231]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:40 PM, Elaine5715 said:

$5 a night...and I never understood the obsession about crew wages.  

I agree, I do not know how much they make but it does appear the crew make enough for most of them to return year after year. I always pay my auto-tips and generally give a little extra but to be honest I suspect many passengers who remove their tips do not tip in cash.  

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, resetjet said:

 The current program is not working anymore. 

I am not sure why you say that. It works for the employer. It works for the employee. The only way it doesn't work is if passengers don't do their small part. 

[ray98]

I love the naivety of those who go on a cruise ship thinking it is their one job to 'save' every worker.  What they fail to realize is the income earned by many of the front facing workers on the ship puts them in the upper class in their home economies, probably a higher level in general than the middle class Americans who are infatuated with their pay.  Stop treating them like they are one step above poverty and maybe you will see the big picture.

Edited February 14, 2023 by ray98

[nascartim]

I recently tried out a new strategy where I did remove my gratuities as I wanted to give out my own gratuities as I went. I bring on well over $100 in 1's and at least $50 in 5's just to start out. I gave my room steward $20 on the 1st day and asked to have ice each day in my small cooler(now whether or not he kept it, I don't know, he wouldn't have known I was going to pull my tips back at that time). This was on my last cruise on Mardi Gras, I actually only saw my rm steward maybe 2 or 3 times tops, we did see another guy more often that I didn't get an introduction from. I did give another $40 on the last day anyway. I also tipped most everywhere I went, and after every meal(never ate in the MDR). I also leave money(at least $3) every time I eat at the buffet where someone will pick up my dishes(they always seem surprised and really appreciate that. I give $5 to the pizza guy if I order a pizza. I've given money to the guest services crew if they help me. I give anywhere from $2-$5 for any drink I order. I'm sure I gave out at least as much as I had removed. But I didn't realize not all of them get to keep the money I give them especially if they know I pulled my tips back. Thanks to this thread, and the other one, I think I'll go back to the auto tip process in the future, plus everyone on here making me feel like a cheapskate for pulling my gratuities. It would probably be easier on me anyway, as now I won't have to be as generous. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by nascartim

[resetjet]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I am not sure why you say that. It works for the employer. It works for the employee. The only way it doesn't work is if passengers don't do their small part. 

The evidence is the lack of workers.  I have been on 8 cruises last 12 months.  Every single one was short handed.  Now they have resorted to having one stateroom attendant clean 35 rooms once a day(with 2 hrs help a day from an assistant),  there are not enough dealers, cocktail waitresses,  pretty much any english speaking crew position.  I see workers doing 3 or 4 very different jobs a day. I ask, they tell me they are terribly short handed. Blame it on pandemic?  Maybe, but it seems they are not coming back. We will see if the small raise of grats does anything.  I doubt it because they are spread amongst too many people.  What i see is workers not reupping being worked to death.  Yes they make 1200 a month on the ship and $400 at home,  but they are home and i have yet to see low paid workers in foreign countries work this hard for 14 hrs a day.  

Edited February 14, 2023 by resetjet
Spelling

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, ray98 said:

I love the naivety of those who go on a cruise ship thinking it is their one job to 'save' every worker.  What they fail to realize is the income earned by many of the front facing workers on the ship puts them in the upper class in their home economies, probably a higher level in general than the middle class Americans who are infatuated with their pay.  Stop treating them like they are one step above poverty and maybe you will see the big picture.

I do see the big picture but to me it doesn't matter how much a person makes if they deserve a tip they get a tip. I'm sure over the years I've tipped people who made more than I did at that time. Bottom line is they work hard and deserve every penny they get.

[Elaine5715]

39 minutes ago, resetjet said:

The evidence is the lack of workers.  I have been on 8 cruises last 12 months.  Every single one was short handed.  Now they have resorted to having one stateroom attendant clean 35 rooms once a day(with 2 hrs help a day from an assistant),  there are not enough dealers, cocktail waitresses,  pretty much any english speaking crew position.  I see workers doing 3 or 4 very different jobs a day. I ask, they tell me they are terribly short handed. Blame it on pandemic?  Maybe, but it seems they are not coming back. We will see if the small raise of grats does anything.  I doubt it because they are spread amongst too many people.  What i see is workers not reupping being worked to death.  Yes they make 1200 a month on the ship and $400 at home,  but they are home and i have yet to see low paid workers in foreign countries work this hard for 14 hrs a day.  

Lack of workers is due to lag in visa processing.  

[sparks1093]

38 minutes ago, resetjet said:

The evidence is the lack of workers.  I have been on 8 cruises last 12 months.  Every single one was short handed.  Now they have resorted to having one stateroom attendant clean 35 rooms once a day(with 2 hrs help a day from an assistant),  there are not enough dealers, cocktail waitresses,  pretty much any english speaking crew position.  I see workers doing 3 or 4 very different jobs a day. I ask, they tell me they are terribly short handed. Blame it on pandemic?  Maybe, but it seems they are not coming back. We will see if the small raise of grats does anything.  I doubt it because they are spread amongst too many people.  What i see is workers not reupping being worked to death.  Yes they make 1200 a month on the ship and $400 at home,  but they are home and i have yet to see low paid workers in foreign countries work this hard for 14 hrs a day.  

There is a shortage of workers in a lot of industries right now and I don't think that we've reached a point where we can say we've returned to normal. Onboard ship it is standard for all employees to perform multiple jobs, that's true of almost all seafaring jobs. None of this indicates that the tipping model is failing. The steward who is cleaning 35 cabins used to clean, what, 20 twice a day so their overall workload remains the same. In any event as I've said multiple times they deserve every penny they get.

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Lack of workers is due to lag in visa processing.  

That is also another reason. Many of the missionary priests in our state had to go home because their work visa was expiring and it was going to take Immigration some time to work through the backlog.

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, ray98 said:

I love the naivety of those who go on a cruise ship thinking it is their one job to 'save' every worker.  What they fail to realize is the income earned by many of the front facing workers on the ship puts them in the upper class in their home economies, probably a higher level in general than the middle class Americans who are infatuated with their pay.  Stop treating them like they are one step above poverty and maybe you will see the big picture.

I agree that many guests somehow project themselves into crew's shoes and think it demeaning.  I don't know if it is the personal service tasks or the cultural/language differences, mistaking the less than fluent English as a lack of intellect or immaturity.  That is why guests feel the need to supply crew with toiletries or treats since the crew member might just blow their paycheck on crapola.  Every single crew member speaks as least twice as many languages as I do.    

[Bandman]

Once they added behind the scenes employees to the tipping policy, we as customers were forced into a new bargain.  If you decide to cruise, the expectation is to contribute to the tips of people you never see. I may not like that policy. But I see no way to combat it without hurting the employees. So, I leave the autotips on.  The same way I don’t go to a sit down restaurant at home and not tip. It’s part of the unspoken contract between the diner and the staff. If I don’t like tipping, I can always eat at McDonalds. Likewise, if I don’t like tipping behind the scenes cruise employees, I can cruise another line. 
 

 

[ProgRockCruiser]

16 hours ago, RD64 said:

John Heald is also saying that you should be giving baseball hats and keychains to the crew to say thank you.

No, he says "if" you want to say thank you with a small gift, those are the types of items that seem to go over well with many of the crew.  But he doesn't say you "should" feel guilted into giving a small gift, and I sure don't feel like I'm pressured at all.

 

I suspect if every guest or cabin on board gave a baseball cap as a gift every cruise, they'd quickly become "not so encouraged".

[ray98]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I do see the big picture but to me it doesn't matter how much a person makes if they deserve a tip they get a tip. I'm sure over the years I've tipped people who made more than I did at that time. Bottom line is they work hard and deserve every penny they get.

I've never said they don't work hard or don't deserve what they make.  I said people need to stop with the guilt trip where they pretend going on a cruise is equal to sending money to save some starving kids in Africa they see on a late night infomercial.

 

The customer facing workers on a cruise ship are not people to feel sorry for.  They are mostly well educated, possess the skills and experience needed to land lucrative positions and make compensation equivalent to those in top end professional careers in their home country.  They don't need someone to give them a bar of soap or snacks because they are hungry, they just need appreciation for the service they provide and the appropriate compensation.

[hillbillycruisers]

I made a suggestion once on this topic, and was severely chastised...but what the hell...I have thick skin, so I'll try again.  What say Carnival just eliminates tipping altogether. ...raise the price of the cruise to cover their employees income. People can either decide to go...and pay extra...or stay home. No prepaid gratuities...no removing gratuities...none of that drama. Now don't get me wrong...before any of you Rah Rahs want to assume I'm a cheapskate... like the last time I suggested this ...one lady went as far as to say she'd bet big money I'm a poor tipper. She would have lost big time....I once relied on a waiters income to make ends meet, and I always tip at least twenty percent...often more. I'm in no way trying to duck tipping. I have done 11 cruises...have always paid my regular gratuities and...except for one cruise stateroom attendant, I have always tipped extra. But...Carnival employs these people...let them pay their salaries...we'll pay Carnival. There is not much of a way to eliminate tipping extra, and probably for good reason...although I hate the fact that we are the ones making their income more sufficient, instead of their employer. I'm sure a lot of people think this idea could never work...and obviously Carnival won't consider it...but it would be interesting to see what would happen if they did. 

[mz-s]

3 minutes ago, hillbillycruisers said:

I made a suggestion once on this topic, and was severely chastised...but what the hell...I have thick skin, so I'll try again.  What say Carnival just eliminates tipping altogether. ...raise the price of the cruise to cover their employees income. People can either decide to go...and pay extra...or stay home. No prepaid gratuities...no removing gratuities...none of that drama. Now don't get me wrong...before any of you Rah Rahs want to assume I'm a cheapskate... like the last time I suggested this ...one lady went as far as to say she'd bet big money I'm a poor tipper. She would have lost big time....I once relied on a waiters income to make ends meet, and I always tip at least twenty percent...often more. I'm in no way trying to duck tipping. I have done 11 cruises...have always paid my regular gratuities and...except for one cruise stateroom attendant, I have always tipped extra. But...Carnival employs these people...let them pay their salaries...we'll pay Carnival. There is not much of a way to eliminate tipping extra, and probably for good reason...although I hate the fact that we are the ones making their income more sufficient, instead of their employer. I'm sure a lot of people think this idea could never work...and obviously Carnival won't consider it...but it would be interesting to see what would happen if they did. 

 

I wish they would. I think they should. AIs by and large don't do tipping. Neither does Virgin Voyages.

 

The main issue is baking gratuities into the cost of the cruise would raise Carnival's costs, and therefore fares, when their main differentiator in the marketplace is price. The fact that it isn't happening proves the cruise industry is happy with offloading a substantial portion of their expenses to their customer's shoulders directly.

[resetjet]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

There is a shortage of workers in a lot of industries right now and I don't think that we've reached a point where we can say we've returned to normal. Onboard ship it is standard for all employees to perform multiple jobs, that's true of almost all seafaring jobs. None of this indicates that the tipping model is failing. The steward who is cleaning 35 cabins used to clean, what, 20 twice a day so their overall workload remains the same. In any event as I've said multiple times they deserve every penny they get.

I dont think there will be a return to normal.  Not on a boat and not at your local business.  As may cruises as i have taken i know what jobs are performed by whom.  Trust me its way different right now.  The steward who is cleaning 35 cabins has 1.5 times the workload as all of them are heavy cleans at once a day.  Lots of dishes,  dirt,  towels.  The major problem is they are paid a contract rate which guarantees them a certain amount if the tips come up short. The tips always come up Short so there is little incentive.  

[sparks1093]

32 minutes ago, ray98 said:

I've never said they don't work hard or don't deserve what they make.  I said people need to stop with the guilt trip where they pretend going on a cruise is equal to sending money to save some starving kids in Africa they see on a late night infomercial.

 

The customer facing workers on a cruise ship are not people to feel sorry for.  They are mostly well educated, possess the skills and experience needed to land lucrative positions and make compensation equivalent to those in top end professional careers in their home country.  They don't need someone to give them a bar of soap or snacks because they are hungry, they just need appreciation for the service they provide and the appropriate compensation.

I only feel sorry for them when people arbitrarily remove the tips. I'm not talking about the folks who remove them and give them in cash.