Carnival Corporation Sells Seabourn Odyssey to MOL Group

[SLSD]

2 minutes ago, Mr Luxury said:

I would move Costa on

Costa is owned by Carnival?  If so, that sounds like a great idea-but perhaps it is profitable?  

[SLSD]

4 hours ago, texanaust said:

Surely the sale of Odyssey won't make much difference to Carnival's 34.55 BILLION dollar debt.  Rather than death by a thousand cuts, would it not be preferable for Seabourn to be sold off as a going concern like Azamara was?  

I think the issue with debt is that payments come due and the money has to come from somewhere.  

[Mr Luxury]

Just now, SLSD said:

Costa is owned by Carnival?  If so, that sounds like a great idea-but perhaps it is profitable?  

Not when an Italian Captain decides to show off to his girlfriend and Sink a ship then be the first to run away🫣

[Vineyard View]

3 hours ago, Mr Luxury said:

Not when an Italian Captain decides to show off to his girlfriend and Sink a ship then be the first to run away🫣

There was that!
Never sailed them, never would. 

[PaulMCO]

With two new ships one in service and one later this year, the obvious course is to cut one minimum/2 maximum ships to keep capacity same.  Quest can fill the role of Odyssey.  Pursuit certainly will be used for Antarctica and Arctic areas.  Only question do the jettison Sojourn too.

 

Really not much money and zero impact on the debt.  $50 to 75m tops for Odyssey.

[texanaust]

11 hours ago, SLSD said:

I think the issue with debt is that payments come due and the money has to come from somewhere.  

 

It still seems like a drop in the bucket though.

[conchyjoe]

My two cents/penny worth …

 

Unfortunately the writing seems to be on the wall for cruise lines like Seabourn, Regent and Silversea. The bulk of their customers (including me) are baby boomers who saved and worked diligently over their working lives to be able to afford cruises that, in their latter lives often cost as much, or more, than the price of a new car. But the fact is that we are all aging and in 20 years the vast majority of Boomers will be gone or incapable of cruising.

 

Will the 35-40 year olds of today, many of whom are perfectly content that their property is mortgaged and they have regular monthly payments on many of their possessions,

have the financial resources to afford a luxury cruise or the funds to provide for a comfortable lengthy retirement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RustyRollock]

I’m not sure the post Boomer generations are particularly interested in the traditional Seabourn product anyway. Expedition style cruises seem to be the future, certainly at the luxury end of the market. That’s fine for those who want it (we do not) so I can see a time when Seabourn may no longer be an option for we old dinosaurs.

[phil09]

We board the Odyssey-Maru in a couple of days for the Pacific crossing finishing up in Vancouver.  Will be interesting to see if there is any significant vibe change with the crew or the many regular Seabourn passengers on the ship.  This is only our second Seabourn cruise - the last was a back-to-back Caribbean/canal crossing last Spring also on the Odyssey.  We loved the ship, the crew and the relatively small passenger volume compared to larger ships we had cruised.  Hate to see the Odyssey leaving the fleet but Carnival Corporation's financial situation does not look great.  Would not be surprised to see more ships or the full Seabourn fleet sold at some point.  

 

We had a great experience last year and look forward to a wonderful cruise over the next couple of months.  But you do have to wonder if the powers that be at Carnival and Holland America really have their heart into the luxury cruise market.  As noted, we don't have the experience to compare our upcoming cruise to the "old days" of Seabourn, but hope what we enjoyed so much last year has not changed negatively.  

[MBP&O2/O]

11 hours ago, conchyjoe said:

My two cents/penny worth …

 

Unfortunately the writing seems to be on the wall for cruise lines like Seabourn, Regent and Silversea. The bulk of their customers (including me) are baby boomers who saved and worked diligently over their working lives to be able to afford cruises that, in their latter lives often cost as much, or more, than the price of a new car. But the fact is that we are all aging and in 20 years the vast majority of Boomers will be gone or incapable of cruising.

 

Will the 35-40 year olds of today, many of whom are perfectly content that their property is mortgaged and they have regular monthly payments on many of their possessions,

have the financial resources to afford a luxury cruise or the funds to provide for a comfortable lengthy retirement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tend to agree with that. Bean counters rule! Or should I say bean counters with no knowledge of the product they are dealing with. We had the same when I was at sea ... uni graduates came on board and told senior officers they were doing it wrong and to change to save money.

Seabourn, although I have never sailed with them .... one due in August... seems to be discreetly downgrading according to some reviews. Various comments on  corporate customer service being poor

Silversea has adopted a whole new marketing policy ... generally speaking it seems to be frowned upon by the veterans, although the very rich veterans accept it. Customer service going down hill.

etc,

I too can see some major casualties coming soon.

[jondfk]

10 hours ago, phil09 said:

We board the Odyssey-Maru in a couple of days for the Pacific crossing finishing up in Vancouver.  Will be interesting to see if there is any significant vibe change with the crew or the many regular Seabourn passengers on the ship.  This is only our second Seabourn cruise - the last was a back-to-back Caribbean/canal crossing last Spring also on the Odyssey.  We loved the ship, the crew and the relatively small passenger volume compared to larger ships we had cruised.  Hate to see the Odyssey leaving the fleet but Carnival Corporation's financial situation does not look great.  Would not be surprised to see more ships or the full Seabourn fleet sold at some point.  

 

We had a great experience last year and look forward to a wonderful cruise over the next couple of months.  But you do have to wonder if the powers that be at Carnival and Holland America really have their heart into the luxury cruise market.  As noted, we don't have the experience to compare our upcoming cruise to the "old days" of Seabourn, but hope what we enjoyed so much last year has not changed negatively.  

I will be waiting eagerly for your report as we sail Odyssey for Alaska in August.  Final payment is due in about a month and we are questioning the logic of keeping the booking.  It's big money (at least by our standards) and it will be a crushing disappointment if the product offers falls far short of the expectations set.

 

Jon

[cruisr]

Perhaps the rumor about Seabourn being sold to to the Saudis was true, and it fell through.

Now the new direction may be to sell off ships piece meal as buyers make offers.  Seabourn is a shadow of what it was since my first sailing in 1998.  One could say that the Seabourn that Atlee Brynsted started could not be sustained.  When CCL purchased 1/2 of Seabourn from Atlee I was happy as it meant Seabourn would survive.  I also did not notice any changes when CCL bought out Atlee completely.  The downhill started after the Miami office was closed and day to day decisions were taken away from Pam Conover and her staff and everything was shifted to Seattle and in the same building as HAL with HAL looking over Rick Meadows shoulder.  That was in 2011 and it has been a slow decline since then, which sped up, due to Covid.

 

Customer service is non existent.  Decision making has been taken away from the ships.  They have to email Seattle and wait for an answer before anything can be done.  Standards have dropped in terms of quality.  That being said it is still streaks ahead of other cruise lines but those cruiselines do not charge the per diems that Seabourn does.

 

I haven’t been on Seabourn in over a year, I still enjoyed it very much.  For better or worse I can compare it to what it was.  For those who just started cruising Seabourn after 2011 they may not see anything that would deter them from Seabourn.  My kids have been on Seabourn with us many times and now, in their 30’s would rather do other vacations then cruises.  When I was in my 30’s I loved cruises and cruised all the time.  Times have changed.

[Mr Luxury]

Funny old game the crooooze bizzness.

One day you're sailing along happily in smooth calm waters and the next day you're being thrashed about in twenty foot waves.

The waves never last of course and the calm waters return for us all to enjoy looking out to sea with a drink in hand and a smile on our faces whatever the name on the ship or whoever owns the debt.

[conchyjoe]

8 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Tend to agree with that. Bean counters rule! Or should I say bean counters with no knowledge of the product they are dealing with. We had the same when I was at sea ... uni graduates came on board and told senior officers they were doing it wrong and to change to save money.

Seabourn, although I have never sailed with them .... one due in August... seems to be discreetly downgrading according to some reviews. Various comments on  corporate customer service being poor

Silversea has adopted a whole new marketing policy ... generally speaking it seems to be frowned upon by the veterans, although the very rich veterans accept it. Customer service going down hill.

etc,

I too can see some major casualties coming soon.

You will still have fun on Seabourn, the service standards certainly slipped a little due to Covid staffing issues but seem to be back closer to historical normal now. Deck crowd seemed full complement and were hard at work on our last trip in September.

But what do I know, only have ONC, N.Sc. 😊 

[phil09]

9 hours ago, jondfk said:

I will be waiting eagerly for your report as we sail Odyssey for Alaska in August.  Final payment is due in about a month and we are questioning the logic of keeping the booking.  It's big money (at least by our standards) and it will be a crushing disappointment if the product offers falls far short of the expectations set.

 

Jon

Jon, I fully appreciate your thoughts and concerns.  Will try to update our experience during the cruise in a separate thread so at least our relative newbie perspective might help along with what others may post.  We know a couple on the current Odyssey cruise who are very experienced Seabourn passengers and we have already received a very positive report from them (it was before THE announcement).  We hope for the best and go into this, as we do any vacation, with a positive attitude and expectation we are likely to experience a bump or two along the way.

[conchyjoe]

6 minutes ago, phil09 said:

Jon, I fully appreciate your thoughts and concerns.  Will try to update our experience during the cruise in a separate thread so at least our relative newbie perspective might help along with what others may post.  We know a couple on the current Odyssey cruise who are very experienced Seabourn passengers and we have already received a very positive report from them (it was before THE announcement).  We hope for the best and go into this, as we do any vacation, with a positive attitude and expectation we are likely to experience a bump or two along the way.

You won’t be disappointed, Seabourn is still very good and much better than the mainstream lines. Enjoy it while you can.

[RustyRollock]

There were rumours last year that Seabourn was going to be acquired by a Saudi consortium but nothing has come of it. The whole Seabourn product and ethos has never been an obvious or comfortable fit for Carnival and so I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s sold off, either ship by ship or as the whole brand. Or it will become a much more specialised adventure/exploration brand as their current focus on that sector would seem to indicate. Whether their direct competition Regent and Silversea follow suit remains to be seen. We’ve had very good experiences with Regent and would certainly consider them again, and a couple of less good trips with Silversea. As always, itinerary is everything.

[cruiseej]

I think that as long as there isn't a debt crunch, each of the major cruise lines would want to maintain a luxury brand. It gives them a place to transition existing customers as they get older, don't have young kids to travel with, and and greater wealth. 

 

On 3/17/2023 at 9:26 PM, conchyjoe said:

The bulk of their customers (including me) are baby boomers who saved and worked diligently over their working lives to be able to afford cruises that, in their latter lives often cost as much, or more, than the price of a new car. But the fact is that we are all aging and in 20 years the vast majority of Boomers will be gone or incapable of cruising.

 

Yes, but there will be Gen Xers coming along to replace the Baby Boomer generation. Why would you think that Gen Xers, who are now in their 40s and 50s, won't be just as enamored of luxury cruising in 20 years as their predecessors?

 

Expedition cruising in luxury style has blossomed in recent years, and presents a growth opportunity for the luxury segment. But not everyone will always want expedition cruises, especially as age increases, there will always be people who will look forward to a classic luxury cruise.

 

I don't see any reason why the market for these products will decline. The cruise lines just have to survive the financial machinations brought on by the pandemic shutdown — no simple feat, and one which is not guaranteed to succeed — so they can get back to building new ships and continuing to develop the luxury segment of the cruising market.