Is the Royal Caribbean Group Neglecting the Celebrity Brand?

[Baron Barracuda]

Princess Cays isn't exclusively Princess.  Several Carnival ships call there as well.

[hcat]

3 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I have no desire to visit a private island

I agree with the above, but I found portion to be fine , I was never hungry or wanting more 

we are big on veggies..2 carrots or 2 asparagus look so paltry on the plate,  Now we always ask for double veggies and lo carb..never denied!

[smtcan]

After recently taking our first Caribbean cruise in about ten years we are in no hurry to do another. I guess we are not the target market for private islands, since we don’t spend a lot of time on beaches. 

We enjoyed many aspects of our Silhouette B2B. Most of the food was good and the size of portions suited us. The ship was clean and well furnished. We stopped cruising Celebrity when they went all inclusive because it didn’t represent value to us and were very happy when cruise only returned. 

[jaywoods678]

3 hours ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

Exactly, why can't Celebrity get their own private island catered to the Celebrity clientele? Princess does (Princess Cays). It's something that would certainly make the short Bahama cruises more appealing. Like you said, I'd imagine they are investing in what's netting them the highest profit and Celebrity's Caribbean itineraries are limited to only 1 ship in the Summer season.

Holland America does too, and it's an amazing island experience.

[jaywoods678]

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

Any form of compolsary AI is bad news. It reduces the value of the loyalty programme, penalises passengers who have no need of unlimited WiFi and is especially bad for single passengers who end up paying for 2 lots of everything. The current system works well as everyone has choices.

100% agree. We don't use the wi-fi, and we barely drink.

[PTC DAWG]

3 hours ago, njsmom said:

I went to CocoCay on Harmony of the Seas with my teenage son and it's not an environment that I'd want to do with my husband when we're on Celebrity this summer. It felt like a big amusement park. Not my scene.

They aren’t all that way..although Coco Cay has quiet areas that don’t cost a bit extra. MSC’s island is beautiful. 

[PTC DAWG]

2 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

 

Regarding private islands, remember  X only has one lonely ship in the Caribbean this summer (Equinox) while Royal has 12.  Next summer Royal will have 14 vs just Reflection for X.   Still, have been to Labadee on X in the past and haven't seen anything saying the new Nassau beach club will be Royal only.  

This is on point.^^^

[Bo1953]

4 hours ago, marvelous35 said:

I think Royal Caribbean has hit home runs with Cococay and the Oasis class ships.  It really plays to the families they are target marketing.  I think Celebrity has had a harder time positioning itself in the higher end cruise market.

 

There is actually no reason Celebrity can't go to Cococay.  But maybe Cococay is not the best fit for the luxury cruisers they are targeting.  Celebrity used to go there before the Perfect Day days.

I can concur with this observation, we went there once on X and I, along with others decided to return to the ship after one (1) hour....

 

bon voyage

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, Woody14 said:

Fair but still new to the role and hopefully new ideas and renewed vigour towards the brand with their new found power as the top dog.

Time will tell.

[the penguins]

2 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

They could do a better job of giving out a single supplement, 

The cost of Wi-Fi to the cruise ships is  minimal with Starlink , believe it or not most people like having wifi now 

 

 

They could do all this but they didn't during the thankfully short lived compolsary AI.

I didn't say people didn't like to  have WiFi it's just that not everyone needs the unlimited version included in AI. The current system works fine as  everyone can choose exactly what suits them and pay accordingly.

[the penguins]

10 minutes ago, the penguins said:

They could do all this but they didn't during the thankfully short lived compolsary AI.

I didn't say people didn't like to  have WiFi it's just that not everyone needs the unlimited version included in AI. The current system works fine as  everyone can choose exactly what suits them and pay accordingly.

Sorry sent to soon. The cost of providing WiFi is  irrelevant it's what X charges that's important and it is high.

[jelayne]

14 minutes ago, the penguins said:

They could do all this but they didn't during the thankfully short lived compolsary AI.

I didn't say people didn't like to  have WiFi it's just that not everyone needs the unlimited version included in AI. The current system works fine as  everyone can choose exactly what suits them and pay accordingly.

Not really, for Aqua and Suites AI is the only option.

[BridgeMates]

For us, itinerary and quality of food is important, quantity not so much....you can always order extras.

 

[the penguins]

2 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Not really, for Aqua and Suites AI is the only option.

True and personally I think it's a shame. I can only assume that either X didn't get such a backlash from passengers in those categories or they have decided including AI is one of the ways to justify the high prices. 

Of course passengers do now have the option to travel Consierge or below an option they were denied when AI was compolsary right across the ship.

[Georgia_Peaches]

6 hours ago, JBare said:

I'm clearly the sort of passenger Celebrity wants, I wouldn't be seen dead on any private island, what on earth is the point ?

I love to cruise.  DH loves the beach.  Having a PI on a cruise itinerary gives us both what we want from a vacation.  It's the compromise, I guess.  Having said that, I don't care for PI's that have the amusement park atmosphere.  We have found MSC's private island to be a serene oasis that allows DH to get his beach fix while I still get to enjoy the comforts of a cruise.  That's the point for us, anyway.

[Georgia_Peaches]

5 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Regarding private islands, remember  X only has one lonely ship in the Caribbean this summer (Equinox) while Royal has 12.

Only one ship?  I feel like there have been a few more in the past...which I guess is your point.  I wonder what gives?

[deliver42]

One ship is the most they've ever had in the summer. The same with Princess, and HAL has none. They are celebrity's competition.

[nikel]

7 hours ago, jwlane said:

Have you ever not gotten enough to eat?

 

Quantity is not the problem....it's quality !!

[TommyD3]

Wish they would restore all the dinner entrees that were eliminated earlier this year.

Especially on the Edge class ships, including Beef Tournados, Rack of Lamb, Shrimp Scampi, Lamb wrapped in Phyllo, etc !!! My son was onboard Apex for three weeks recently and had the Beef Encroute basically every day due to the lack of variety !!!

[markeb]

10 hours ago, horseymike said:

You make a good point. Maybe they are investing in the areas where they are making the highest returns .

Being partial to Celebrity over RCCL , I totally agree with your assessment.

We enjoy a calmer more refined product as opposed to water slides , loud thumping music etc….

 

9 hours ago, NorthStarStateCruiser said:

Exactly, why can't Celebrity get their own private island catered to the Celebrity clientele? Princess does (Princess Cays). It's something that would certainly make the short Bahama cruises more appealing. Like you said, I'd imagine they are investing in what's netting them the highest profit and Celebrity's Caribbean itineraries are limited to only 1 ship in the Summer season.

 

9 hours ago, Woody14 said:

You are right they would be investing where there is return.  One ship in the summer stoping at a private island would definitely not pay back the investment in to a private island. 

 

We moved to Celebrity from Royal Caribbean and have found we much prefer the product at this point in our life. But I'm talking as a customer, not as a board member or investor. RCG doesn't report internal financials on its subsidiary companies but if the board is approving much bigger investments in Royal Caribbean than Celebrity (implied in this thread and likely true) than I'd certainly expect that's where the bigger return is. And they should be investing in Royal Caribbean and not Celebrity. That's the board's responsibility to shareholders.

 

If they're looking at a $1B outlay to either Royal or X, and Royal has a 10 year net present value of $4B and Celebrity has $2B (made up numbers), then invest in Royal. Pretty simple...

 

The food conversations, AI versus no AI, itineraries, etc., are tactical decisions, not capital investments. There could be a whole other thread on segmentation, targeting, and pricing, but with no data, there's not much there. However, the amount of comparison between the two companies in this thread, even discussing the private islands, suggests to me their targeting and segmentation is missing their target.

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, markeb said:

 

 

 

We moved to Celebrity from Royal Caribbean and have found we much prefer the product at this point in our life. But I'm talking as a customer, not as a board member or investor. RCG doesn't report internal financials on its subsidiary companies but if the board is approving much bigger investments in Royal Caribbean than Celebrity (implied in this thread and likely true) than I'd certainly expect that's where the bigger return is. And they should be investing in Royal Caribbean and not Celebrity. That's the board's responsibility to shareholders.

 

If they're looking at a $1B outlay to either Royal or X, and Royal has a 10 year net present value of $4B and Celebrity has $2B (made up numbers), then invest in Royal. Pretty simple...

 

The food conversations, AI versus no AI, itineraries, etc., are tactical decisions, not capital investments. There could be a whole other thread on segmentation, targeting, and pricing, but with no data, there's not much there. However, the amount of comparison between the two companies in this thread, even discussing the private islands, suggests to me their targeting and segmentation is missing their target.

The discussion also missed out Royals other major brand, Silversea, which has its own investment needs and it's 50/50 partnership in TUI.

[jwlane]

14 hours ago, nikel said:

 

Quantity is not the problem

Why did @hcat state "better food quality and portions"?  That also implies quantity to me.

Edited May 16, 2023 by jwlane

[TheHawk1]

23 hours ago, marvelous35 said:

There is actually no reason Celebrity can't go to Cococay.  But maybe Cococay is not the best fit for the luxury cruisers they are targeting.  Celebrity used to go there before the Perfect Day days.

Some of the Cabanas at Coco Cay go for $1,600 per day.  Sounds pretty upscale to me, so not sure why this wouldn't appeal to the Celebrity cruiser crowd?  There are several areas on the island currently where you can separate yourself away from the family friendly atmosphere, ie kids on water slides.

[the penguins]

20 hours ago, hcat said:

we are big on veggies..2 carrots or 2 asparagus look so paltry on the plate,  Now we always ask for double veggies and lo carb..never denied!

We always order a separate dish of vegetables.

[Baron Barracuda]

The largest X ships are just under 3k passengers.  Aside from a couple of stops by little Serenade sailing from Tampa every Royal ship visiting Coco Cay carries 4k - 5k+.  Makes sense to allocate limited dock space to larger vessels.