We'll never fly United Airlines again

[-Lew-]

44 minutes ago, Selion said:

Threat of public shaming works wonders!

 

True...however DMs on Twitter are private.

[Selion]

1 hour ago, -Lew- said:

 

True...however DMs on Twitter are private.

Yeah, but they know you are Twitter user.  Only a click away from publishing for the entire world to see.

[LibertyBella]

I am a United FF, among other airlines, and I have always found them pretty good at accommodating my flight needs.

 

However, I agree that booking through a third party is a big NO-NO--I am even uncomfortable booking my flights through Viking and Princess, which I have done this year for international travel.

 

Right now international flights are at a premium--the airlines are selling well, and have no need to lower prices, or overly assist passengers, as so many are eager to fly.

 

My goal is to ALWAYS fly direct, non-stop whenever possible, to avoid issues.  Yes, it may cost a bit more, but the convenience, faster travel time, and more limited chance of lost luggage reduces a lot of headaches.  I also make sure I have seat assignments on every flight, as it is harder to be removed from a flight once seats are confirmed.

 

I will say I checked my flight reservations DAILY when Viking booked them, as I kept getting kicked out of my Lufthansa preassigned seat--definitely a system glitch problem on Viking's end, as I went into all the airline history, etc., and found they only prepaid for one assigned seat.  

 

Because I am a FF, and I have airline accounts, I automatically check and double check all my reservations on the airline websites along with the cruise line flight info.  

 

I am also flying to Italy in a few months to catch my Princess cruise out of Rome, and I am keeping my fingers crossed all goes well, although we are traveling four days early and three days post-cruise to build in a nice cushion.

 

Hope you get this resolved, but things could be much, much worse.  I do have to say I somewhat dislike Frankfurt airport, but the old central part of Frankfurt is wonderful to visit!

[FlyerTalker]

22 hours ago, longterm said:

I had confirmation codes, was set to go,

 

Just because you have a confirmation code does NOT mean that you are actually ticketed.  Were you ticketed?  Did you have a 13 digit ticket number (and not just your 6 character locator)?

 

18 hours ago, longterm said:

I like to use Travelocity because I find some good deals there,

 

And you do know that Travelocity is sometimes a third party reseller, putting together flights that are NOT the same tickets as you would buy from the airline directly. They may be consolidator tickets, they may be pieced together from multiple tickets and fare situations and more.

 

Thought problem:  If the ticket costs less than what the airline is selling directly, and if Travelocity is making some kind of profit on the deal, do you REALLY think you are getting the same thing as you would by buying your ticket direct?

 

18 hours ago, longterm said:

Actually, not true, even though I did go through Travelocity. The flights were all booked, I had confirmation numbers for everything;

 

Again, unless you were ticketed, you had bupkis.  Your desire to save a buck led you to a situation that was no fault of United (which probably isn't even flying any of your segments), and yet you will "never fly United again".

 

 

[LuckyStar]

23 hours ago, longterm said:

We're headed to Italy on Saturday for a Rick Steves Best of Tuscany tour; I booked flights months ago. 

Our return was from Florence to Frankfurt, from Frankfurt to Dallas; I had confirmation codes, was set to go, but hadn't been able to get seat assignments for the 1st leg, from Florence to Frankfurt, which was with Air Dolomiti, but booked by United.

I called this morning, after trying last week, and was told that we had reservations on the flight, but didn't any longer. They told me to call United, which I did; after wasting an hour on hold with a rep, I was told that although the flight was now full, she was going to "email Air Dolomiti and ask to have our reservation reinstated," and that she would be calling me tomorrow. She also said that we might just have to fly home the next day. I'm sure hotel and food compensation would have been forthcoming (NOT).

This is the worst sort of service; we will do everything we can to never fly this awful airline ever again. While I do understand that accidents happen, I should have gotten resolution this morning, and if they really cared about their customers, offered some sort of compensation for this unacceptable situation.

I'm sorry that this has happened.  Hope you will keep us updated.  I think that this could happen with any airline.  I honestly love United but I have never had any problems with them.  I refused to fly Delta when they screwed something up, until they had a too good to believe fare, then I became very forgiving.  

[longterm]

OK, spoke to United this morning, and Air Dolomiti reinstated our reservation.

 

I said "One Way," but that was incorrect, I guess it's Star Alliance, or whatever the group is that United is part of. At any rate, it was resolved and we're back on the flight we were originally booked into.

What was really odd was that throughout, Air Dolomiti had our names listed, but somehow had dropped us from the list of passengers for the flight. 

 

Concerning comments about who was responsible (United or the subsidiary carriers), everything was originally managed by United, even though none of the 5 flights will actually be on United airplanes. When I chose our flights, it listed United but then said that the legs were operated by Lufthansa, Brussels Air, and Air Dolomiti. 

 

Someone suggested booking my own flights; that's exactly what I'd done. In the future, whenever I'm able to book our flights (the Viking Grand European being the exception since flights are included), I'll do what I can to stick with other carriers. I know experiences are anecdotal and others can cite examples of bad service from other carriers as well.

 

I'll be double-checking our flights for the next 3 weeks, that's for sure.

[-Lew-]

1 hour ago, longterm said:

OK, spoke to United this morning, and Air Dolomiti reinstated our reservation.

 

Happy your efforts were successful!  Safe and easy travels...

[6rugrats]

I am not even sure what to say to your latest post, OP.  There is so much to unwrap and I just don't have the energy.  Air travel is complicated, especially when you book using a third party and if you have no real understanding of how it works.

[longterm]

2 hours ago, 6rugrats said:

I am not even sure what to say to your latest post, OP.  There is so much to unwrap and I just don't have the energy.  Air travel is complicated, especially when you book using a third party and if you have no real understanding of how it works.

But comment you did.

 

Not being in the airline business, I of course never claimed to know how they manage (or mismanage) their business, but at least the issue was resolved. 

What I do understand, having run a computer consulting company for 26 years now, is that good customer service invariably rewards the company with customer loyalty.

 

 

 

 

[Globaliser]

4 hours ago, longterm said:

What I do understand, having run a computer consulting company for 26 years now, is that good customer service invariably rewards the company with customer loyalty.

 

But that's a different industry with different industry dynamics.

 

What airlines have learnt is that providing good customer service can build up lots of goodwill and warm fuzzy feelings to passengers, who will then decide how to purchase their next flight by reliably selecting the cheapest option in the market. "I'm so loyal to Fly Me Airlines - they treat me so well - but I just couldn't pass up the Treat-Me-Like-Dirt Airlines fare that was $50 cheaper. I'll go back to Fly Me Airlines next time." Next time, of course, someone else may have a can't-miss fare that's $50 cheaper.

 

There's no other way to explain the rampant success of airlines that do treat their passengers like dirt, and make no secret of it. In Europe, Ryanair is the shining example.

 

In addition, no individual airline passenger is important to an airline, however loyal they think they are. Individuals are rarely worth more than several thousand dollars a year of revenue to an airline (and airlines' profit margin on that is notoriously tiny and volatile). If you control travel spend of several million dollars a year, the airline may push out the red carpet for you. Otherwise, forget about being rewarded for your "loyalty" - neither you nor your loyalty are important to the airline, even if it makes you feel good about yourself to say "I'll never fly XXX again".

[FlyerTalker]

12 hours ago, longterm said:

Concerning comments about who was responsible (United or the subsidiary carriers), everything was originally managed by United, even though none of the 5 flights will actually be on United airplanes.

 

It wasn't "managed" by United.  You bought your ticket from Travelocity.  You didn't buy it from United.

 

And you still never told us just when you were eventually ticketed.  Which, by the way, leads to ask - are you ticketed even now?  Do you have 13 digit ticket numbers or are you still just with your confirmation codes (which are NOT tickets)?

 

 

[longterm]

4 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

It wasn't "managed" by United.  You bought your ticket from Travelocity.  You didn't buy it from United.

 

And you still never told us just when you were eventually ticketed.  Which, by the way, leads to ask - are you ticketed even now?  Do you have 13 digit ticket numbers or are you still just with your confirmation codes (which are NOT tickets)?

 

 

Yes, it IS managed by United; they're the ones that straightened out the mess. I don't know if I am ticketed, but I've gotten confirmations both from United and Air Dolomiti that I am actually confirmed on the flight that was the problem.

 

Even though I bought the reservation through Travelocity, the flights are managed by United, which is where Air Dolomiti told me to turn for resolution. When I wanted to change flights in the past, on a flight that was also purchased through Travelocity, they told me to go to the airline to have the flights changed, and that's what I did then as well.

 

I've flown hundreds of times; I don't recall EVER having ticket numbers.

[6rugrats]

Last night at work, I dealt with a party of two, who had connected from an international flight at SFO, and then arrived at my airport.  Their bags were not here so I did a search and saw they’d failed to p/u bags at SFO, clear customs and drop off at the reflight belt.  So, they were still sitting at SFO.  I explained why the bags were still there and that at their first point of entry to the US (unless traveling from an airport that had US preclearance) they ALWAYS had to retrieve their bag and recheck.

While I filled out a delayed baggage claim, they stood there for a good 10 minutes telling me they were frequent fliers, I was wrong, and this was not how it worked; there was never any need to clear customs and recheck bags, it was automatically done for them.

I hear stuff like this every day.  Enough said.

Edited May 24, 2023 by 6rugrats

[longterm]

7 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

But that's a different industry with different industry dynamics.

 

What airlines have learnt is that providing good customer service can build up lots of goodwill and warm fuzzy feelings to passengers, who will then decide how to purchase their next flight by reliably selecting the cheapest option in the market. "I'm so loyal to Fly Me Airlines - they treat me so well - but I just couldn't pass up the Treat-Me-Like-Dirt Airlines fare that was $50 cheaper. I'll go back to Fly Me Airlines next time." Next time, of course, someone else may have a can't-miss fare that's $50 cheaper.

 

There's no other way to explain the rampant success of airlines that do treat their passengers like dirt, and make no secret of it. In Europe, Ryanair is the shining example.

 

In addition, no individual airline passenger is important to an airline, however loyal they think they are. Individuals are rarely worth more than several thousand dollars a year of revenue to an airline (and airlines' profit margin on that is notoriously tiny and volatile). If you control travel spend of several million dollars a year, the airline may push out the red carpet for you. Otherwise, forget about being rewarded for your "loyalty" - neither you nor your loyalty are important to the airline, even if it makes you feel good about yourself to say "I'll never fly XXX again".

I respectfully disagree, for these reasons:

 

In these days of social media, where unhappy customers post their experiences on review sites and sites like this, companies try to avoid negative social publicity--which is why most companies monitor social media and respond to complaints and bad reviews. When I was still on the bird site, I regularly sought resolution to issues with companies, and often got direct contact with company reps.

 

Companies do care about their reputations, even if we're just a couple of vacation travelers; it's not so much the revenue we might bring, as the word of mouth that reviewers like us spread on the Internet. This is why Viking monitors this forum; they care about what we travelers say about their service, and we've routinely seen replies from them. 

 

Customers talk about their experiences with companies, which is why we chose the homebuilders we chose, why we often choose restaurants we choose, why we select hotels that we do, why we chose the landscaper who just did a project for us. It matters to companies about their reputations, which is why I saw giant United Airlines banners at an MLB game just yesterday--otherwise, why would they bother to advertise? 

 

Contrary to what someone said, we do have brand loyalty when it comes to flying; despite Southwest's dismal computer meltdown last winter, we've always had great service from them, and choose Southwest whenever possible. Yes, we do have brand loyalty when it comes to flying; I never chose an airline just based on price--for example, I *never* flew Jet Blue because it was such an awful airline. In the future, my flight booking choices will be a bit narrower.

 

Having flown every week for almost 20 years in the music business, with a group whose logistical requirements were thorny and fairly complex, I saw firsthand which airlines treated us better than others. I know that people have their favorites, as do we.

 

It's unfortunate that some large companies fail to consider customer satisfaction as much as they should--but some companies do. When a package failed to arrive from Amazon, it took me 3 minutes to report it on their site, and a replacement was on our doorstep 2 days later. Now THAT'S good service. In restaurants, I've had managers offer free dessert if something wasn't up to snuff--that's a small gesture but always leaves a good impression.

 

Finally, I would add that when I get great service or a notable meal, I always go on Yelp and praise them, just as I go on and voice my displeasure when I get bad service. 

It was apparent that United wasn't the cause of the issue with the one leg of our flight; the problem was clearly with Air Dolomiti, but I'm glad it was rectified.

 

I should also add that I got 3 calls from United yesterday, so they did their best to make sure that we were taken care of and our issue resolved. In fact, I'll probably cut them a little slack in this situation, because someone cared enough to make sure that we were contacted and satisfied that our issue was resolved.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by longterm

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, longterm said:

I've flown hundreds of times; I don't recall EVER having ticket numbers.

 

You will always have had ticket numbers. Without a ticket, you don't fly. The ticket is the document of value that shows that the travel has been paid for. It doesn't matter how confirmed your reservation is, or how accurately you have recorded your reservation/confirmation reference/number - if you don't have a ticket, you don't fly.

 

Beyond that, there's nothing to add to what 6rugrats has said.

[longterm]

46 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

You will always have had ticket numbers. Without a ticket, you don't fly. The ticket is the document of value that shows that the travel has been paid for. It doesn't matter how confirmed your reservation is, or how accurately you have recorded your reservation/confirmation reference/number - if you don't have a ticket, you don't fly.

 

Beyond that, there's nothing to add to what 6rugrats has said.

I get that--I've been flying since I was a teenager--but since the days of paper tickets, they're not as readily visible. I assume that I'll be able to see them once I check in and download my tickets to my phone though. I looked just now at my reservation just now on United, and there are no ticket numbers--and we fly Saturday morning; I'm assuming we've already been ticketed though.

 

As I mentioned, I did get 3 callbacks from United yesterday, which was a good thing; even though the issue was probably not of their making, they did their best to resolve it. 

 

Enough said on this.

 

 

[-Lew-]

2 hours ago, longterm said:

I don't know if I am ticketed, but I've gotten confirmations both from United and Air Dolomiti that I am actually confirmed on the flight that was the problem.

 

If you've been ticketed, you'll see something like the following on your receipt...

 

 

If you don't have a receipt, login to your United account and request one.

[FlyerTalker]

10 hours ago, longterm said:

I assume that I'll be able to see them once I check in and download my tickets to my phone though.

 

And there you have it, folks.

 

 

[Fairgarth]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:54 PM, Globaliser said:

 

What airlines have learnt is that providing good customer service can build up lots of goodwill and warm fuzzy feelings to passengers, who will then decide how to purchase their next flight by reliably selecting the cheapest option in the market. 

 

There's no other way to explain the rampant success of airlines that do treat their passengers like dirt, and make no secret of it. In Europe, Ryanair is the shining example.

 

 

Reminds me of a quote from Bob Crandall, legendary head of American Airlines years ago.  Can't remember it exactly but something like "passengers would slit their grandmother's throat to save one dollar on an air fare".  He was right and it's till true.

[ocean sounds]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:20 PM, longterm said:

Actually, not true, even though I did go through Travelocity. The flights were all booked, I had confirmation numbers for everything; in the past, when I've needed to adjust flights, I've always been able to go directly to the airlines.

 

The problem came to light when I saw that I still didn't have seat assignments for the Air Dolomiti flight from Florence to Frankfurt, and in one particular view, the flight wasn't even listed--although in another screen on United's site, it *was* listed.

So I called Air Dolomiti this morning early, and that's when I was told that yes, they had us on that flight, but now they didn't. I asked why, and he didn't really have an answer, except for me to contact United. Which I did, and now they're *supposed* to call me tomorrow morning. I'll be waiting with bated breath.

what day was your flight scheduled on Air Dolomati from Florence to Frankfurt?     Hope it is not for Sunday, June 4 ?
 

Edited May 27, 2023 by ocean sounds

[6rugrats]

2 hours ago, ocean sounds said:

what day was your flight scheduled on Air Dolomati from Florence to Frankfurt?     Hope it is not for Sunday, June 4 ?
 

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-air-transport-strike-postponed-emilia-romagna-floods.html

[waterbug123]

Late to the convo but three things...

1.  seat assignments for intra-European flights (I believe this was the original reason you called the airline) are usually not assigned until check-iin

2. The airline alliance you referenced is One World, not One Way.  Not that it matters, since United is in Star Alliance as was already pointed out.

3. The 13 digit ticket # IS readily available right on your purchase receipt.  Whether Expedia shares it with you, I don't know.  But if you purchase directly through an airline, it's right there.

[Hlitner]

I also feel the OP's pain.  But as a frequent world traveler (and flyer) if I were to not fly with every airline that has done me wrong, I would likely be staying home :).  These days, travelers need to be their own advocate (nobody else will do it) and stay on top of all the different travel issues.  Code shares can be a real problem, and I want to see real ticket numbers and also find my reservation on the various code share airlines!   

 

When I think of the airlines that have always treated me well, they are all European or Asian airlines.  All the US airlines have screwed me more than once.  I am talking about AA, Delta, and United.  Ironically, we have never been mistreated by Southwest which we must assume is just luck.

 

Hank

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I am talking about AA, Delta, and United.  Ironically, we have never been mistreated by Southwest which we must assume is just luck.

 

Hank

It is not easy to be a "world traveler" on Southwest.

[FlyerTalker]

6 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

It is not easy to be a "world traveler" on Southwest.

 

Well, you can fly WN to:

 

Mexico

Dominican Republic

Jamaica

Cuba

Cayman Islands

Turks & Caicos

Belize

Costa Rica

Aruba

 

Perhaps not as many destinations as Turkish Airlines, but still a bunch of spots outside the USA.