They have destroyed the Crows Nest

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

Seriously. I lived in the library as a kid in the 80's. I had a library card at 3 and could work a card catalog by the time I was in 1st grade. Melvil Dewey was my home boy. I was a "nerd" (still am) and I highly doubt those amazingly dedicated and quiet ladies who made me think being a librarian would be just about the coolest job ever had time to wipe down every single book (much less every page) with anti-microbial disinfectant. We have a very sturdy epidermis and an amazing immune system for a reason. I adore e-books as much as the next person and you will have to pry my Kindle "from my cold dead hands" but I highly doubt libraries anywhere are a vector for any disease. 

They actually were wiping down every book at our public library during the height of the Covid pandemic. Thankfully, those days seem to be behind us. Although they still have disabled the middle computers giving those using the other computers a distance between the next person. I don't know why that is still necessary. 

[Florida_gal_50]

5 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

Seriously. I lived in the library as a kid in the 80's. I had a library card at 3 and could work a card catalog by the time I was in 1st grade. Melvil Dewey was my home boy. I was a "nerd" (still am) and I highly doubt those amazingly dedicated and quiet ladies who made me think being a librarian would be just about the coolest job ever had time to wipe down every single book (much less every page) with anti-microbial disinfectant. We have a very sturdy epidermis and an amazing immune system for a reason. I adore e-books as much as the next person and you will have to pry my Kindle "from my cold dead hands" but I highly doubt libraries anywhere are a vector for any disease. 

Probably board game, puzzles etc aren’t either 🙄. I’m not touching things that others have touched when I can avoid it.  I’ve never had Covid and neither have any of my family members.  I’ve never gotten Norwalk on a ship either.

[AKJonesy]

OK I'm getting a good laugh out of this thread.  When I complain to my son about something that has to do with "the way things used to be" that's when my son texts me some meme referencing "boomer" complaints...and then I laugh at myself.  I'm not going to post a boomer meme because I think some would take offense and I'm not starting a fight!  :)  

 

I like the old libraries, but have traveled on the new Rotterdam twice now and I love the peace of that library.  It's true there are few chairs and the library is tucked far away, but it is a nice space.  I never really used the bar that was in the Crow's Nest but changing that seems wrong because I've always seen that bar full in the afternoon and before dinner; especially when they were doing trivia.  

 

My biggest complaint is lack of enrichment and entertainment on the World Stage.  I was on a recent cruise and HAL had two very interesting programs that probably cost them very little.  They had a "talk" including a slide presentation on running the day to day operations of the cruise ship and bringing in those heads of the departments to say something about their operations.  They also brought in a young guy who talked about his adventure on his "back country" climbing adventure and injury.  It was a harrowing experience of how he and his buddy survived that.  That probably didn't cost HAL much because it wasn't a big production but more use of the World Stage for something like TED talks would probably be interesting.

 

My husband wants me to go on a World Tour for 70 plus days and IDK...Maybe HAL offers more enrichment on the World Tours than the other cruises, but I'm having a hard time seeing myself on a cruise for that long.  

 

 

[albingirl]

19 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Probably because people don’t want to get their kindle stolen.  How many people do you see on the ship saving their chair all day with a kindle? I would think zero or close to it.

You make a good point, but I don't think that was the reason most people took books out of the library. I agree that it's a shame when I see it. It's either a flip-flop or a paperback book for the chair hogs.

[Mary229]

18 minutes ago, albingirl said:

You make a good point, but I don't think that was the reason most people took books out of the library. I agree that it's a shame when I see it. It's either a flip-flop or a paperback book for the chair hogs.

If someone leaves a book on a chair they better have left a mean guard dog spouse to back it up because I am going to move it.   (I respect the rule that HAL has for the theater that the traveling companion can save a seat)

[Haljo1935]

New library seen this month on Eurodam. I didn't capture the entire room, so it has more books than what's visible here. Definitely a stock available. Pictures taken last day, so many books probably had been returned. 

Chairs would be nice; maybe they aren't providing them as a way to offer enrichment (the books) while not encouraging socialization? Or cost savings - books and bookcases cost less than chairs?

Whatever it is, HAL is investigating $$ in bringing the libraries back.

Another question re change on Crows Nest  - where are they doing the vow renewals now that the private space is gone?

Edited May 31, 2023 by Haljo1935

[AncientWanderer]

We've enjoyed the new library on Nieuw Amsterdam, which is like the one on the Eurodam.  They have a well-curated collection of books -- something for everyone.

I think library lovers (I am one) will be happy with the libraries that are coming back onboard.

[cruisemom42]

38 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

We've enjoyed the new library on Nieuw Amsterdam, which is like the one on the Eurodam.  They have a well-curated collection of books -- something for everyone.

I think library lovers (I am one) will be happy with the libraries that are coming back onboard.

 

There is very little non-fiction, at least such is the case on Westerdam, another remodeled library that looks similar to these.  I spent some time browsing the offerings and found little that would have appealed to me.

 

On a ship I had somehow expected more books related to travel, history, etc. Not much there.

 

 

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

There is very little non-fiction, at least such is the case on Westerdam, another remodeled library that looks similar to these.  I spent some time browsing the offerings and found little that would have appealed to me.

 

On a ship I had somehow expected more books related to travel, history, etc. Not much there.

 

 

 

Well, to add to my thoughts, I had very low expectations -- thinking it would be all current popular fiction -- and didn't really anticipate that the library would be our main source of reading material.  We mainly rely on our loaded up e-readers.  But both DH and I enjoyed browsing and found some fun things to supplement our e-readers.  

 

The new libraries are nothing like the old ones, but for our changing times, I was pleased. Always should add YMMV.

[cruisemom42]

10 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

My husband wants me to go on a World Tour for 70 plus days and IDK...Maybe HAL offers more enrichment on the World Tours than the other cruises, but I'm having a hard time seeing myself on a cruise for that long.  

 

In your position I would think very carefully about the minimum amount of education/enrichment that you could anticipate. If there is more, then it will be a bonus, but in my experience you cannot count on it materializing....

 

I feel very disillusioned with HAL. When I took short cruises I was disappointed in having no enrichment speakers and was told by those on the boards that this only happened on cruises longer than two weeks. When I took a longer cruise and no speakers materialized, I then was told they are now only on "longer" cruises. On my recent 28-day cruise this component was still missing and the latest apologists are suggesting enrichment only will be on grand voyages and such.

 

Perhaps things are still different on World cruises, but I feel it would be just my luck that if I booked such a long cruise, it would be the same story.

 

[Mary229]

40 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

On a ship I had somehow expected more books related to travel, history, etc. Not much there

That would be my sole expectation.   Fiction is far too difficult to satisfy a large number of people.   One constant is the interest in travel with the added bonus to HAL is that it could spur sales.   

[Haljo1935]

We had no expectations as to what would be available; only that a new stocked library would be there as the ship was fresh out of dry dock.

DH found an 800+ page book which he managed to get through (to say he's not a reader is generous) with so little time to spare we had to leave it in the cabin, but it was read cover to cover, so I consider that a successful library experience. 🙃🤭

Edited May 31, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

That would be my sole expectation.   Fiction is far too difficult to satisfy a large number of people.   One constant is the interest in travel with the added bonus to HAL is that it could spur sales.   

 

I observed a fair amount of nonfiction, interesting travel books, but acknowledge that the library was picked over toward the end of the cruise.  Could be a problem on a collectors' cruise.

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

I observed a fair amount of nonfiction, interesting travel books, but acknowledge that the library was picked over toward the end of the cruise.  Could be a problem on a collectors' cruise.

If there is to be a library a travel reference library seems appropriate.  

Edited May 31, 2023 by Mary229

[cruisemom42]

44 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

I observed a fair amount of nonfiction, interesting travel books, but acknowledge that the library was picked over toward the end of the cruise.  Could be a problem on a collectors' cruise.

 

It's not a matter of books available but of linear feet devoted to various categories. This was the only bookcase containing nonfiction books -- and there were no separate shelves anywhere for biography, travel or the like:

 

 

 

(Photo is from Zuiderdam but the Westerdam library has the same layout and cases.)

 

Honestly, I believe there were more "Sci-Fi/Fantasy" and "Young Adult" books than non-fiction:

 

 

[AncientWanderer]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It's not a matter of books available but of linear feet devoted to various categories. This was the only bookcase containing nonfiction books -- and there were no separate shelves anywhere for biography, travel or the like:

 

 

 

(Photo is from Zuiderdam but the Westerdam library has the same layout and cases.)

 

Honestly, I believe there were more "Sci-Fi/Fantasy" and "Young Adult" books than non-fiction:

 

 

 

Well, now, that's interesting.  The arrangement here appears to be different than what Haljo posted and different than what was on Nieuw Amsterdam.  NA has more nonfiction for sure.  I'm laughing about the giant "Young Adult" section.  Great demand for that on HAL.

Well, hopefully the libraries will be enhanced and well-maintained.  That they carved out a space tor them is very good news.

[Mary229]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It's not a matter of books available but of linear feet devoted to various categories. This was the only bookcase containing nonfiction books -- and there were no separate shelves anywhere for biography, travel or the like:

 

 

 

(Photo is from Zuiderdam but the Westerdam library has the same layout and cases.)

 

Honestly, I believe there were more "Sci-Fi/Fantasy" and "Young Adult" books than non-fiction:

 

 

I don’t understand this concept on a modern cruise ship.  It is just weird.  That is a lot of space with no seating for relaxing, reading or quiet chit chat.  I often enjoy the library on my voyages.  I can grab a coffee, open my iPad and read perhaps engaging in conversation with other like minded travelers and even arranging an afternoon game. There is usually the quiet hum of humanity, this above concept is devoid of life. 

[lissie]

Can you check the books out? Is there a librarian? I agree it 's weird there are no seats 

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, lissie said:

Can you check the books out? Is there a librarian? I agree it 's weird there are no seats 

 

Honor system.  They say to please take one at a time.  We visited often and found that books were reshelved quickly, so someone is monitoring the area.

There are a few seats, but the space is definitely not designed as a place to hang out.

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I don’t understand this concept on a modern cruise ship.  It is just weird.  That is a lot of space with no seating for relaxing, reading or quiet chit chat.  I often enjoy the library on my voyages.  I can grab a coffee, open my iPad and read perhaps engaging in conversation with other like minded travelers and even arranging an afternoon game. There is usually the quiet hum of humanity, this above concept is devoid of life. 

 

I think that space is supposed to be the Crow's Nest and not the Library. Weren't people complaining before (in the old library areas) about too much noise in the library?  Seemed to me that people in there were not so much reading as napping. 😉

 

At any rate, on Westerdam in the afternoon, the starboard side of the Crow's Nest was usually hopping with folks playing games at the tables, including the loud slap of mah jong tiles -- which I'm not sure would be welcomed by the library frequenters.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by cruisemom42

[Haljo1935]

19 minutes ago, lissie said:

Can you check the books out? Is there a librarian? I agree it 's weird there are no seats 

You just take what you want then return it to the book drop - Honor System. Books are labeled as property of HAL and hopefully passengers respect the system & who owns the book.

As my DH needed every minute possible to finish the 800+ pages in the book he selected, he left it in our cabin for the steward to return. I have to believe he wasn't the only one. 🥸🤓

And no, no librarian. Books are stacked multiple copies deep like in an Old School Blockbuster store 🙂 empty spaces indicating titles are not available. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[Tampa Girl]

13 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

Well, now, that's interesting.  The arrangement here appears to be different than what Haljo posted and different than what was on Nieuw Amsterdam.  NA has more nonfiction for sure.  I'm laughing about the giant "Young Adult" section.  Great demand for that on HAL.

Well, hopefully the libraries will be enhanced and well-maintained.  That they carved out a space tor them is very good news.

we  found the selection of non-fiction to be quite adequate on the Eurodam, as well  DH, who is an avid reader, spent most of our 10-day cruise reading the history of the Vikings.  As for travel books, that is the last thing I want to read while on a cruise.  By the time that I have boarded, I have studied all the travel info that I want, at least for the time being.  Instead of criticising HAL's new libraries, I am so grateful that they are being rejuvenated and also that there is a section for used books.  Can't we give HAL a little bit of credit for responding to years of criticism for removing the former libraries

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

It's not a matter of books available but of linear feet devoted to various categories. This was the only bookcase containing nonfiction books -- and there were no separate shelves anywhere for biography, travel or the like:

 

 

 

(Photo is from Zuiderdam but the Westerdam library has the same layout and cases.)

 

Lots of books, but it looks like only about two dozen titles. Better than nothing, but not a properly curated library. Of course, that takes time and somebody paying attention to the selection. This looks like someone bought cases of books off a best-seller list at wholesale prices and sent 6 or 7 to each ship.  I could probably borrow these new books hard copy or e-reader from my local library. I want to browse and find something new or different. Like @fatcat04, I'm a book nerd and love real libraries. 

 

While travel books would be nice, someone who hasn't done their pre-cruise research will likely grab them and keep them for the duration. Cunard has a librarian who checks out books, and IIRC, puts cruise-specific books on hold to be used only in the library, so everyone has a chance to see them. 

 

[travelholics]

17 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

we  found the selection of non-fiction to be quite adequate on the Eurodam, as well  DH, who is an avid reader, spent most of our 10-day cruise reading the history of the Vikings.  As for travel books, that is the last thing I want to read while on a cruise.  By the time that I have boarded, I have studied all the travel info that I want, at least for the time being.  Instead of criticising HAL's new libraries, I am so grateful that they are being rejuvenated and also that there is a section for used books.  Can't we give HAL a little bit of credit for responding to years of criticism for removing the former libraries

 

Agree wholeheartedly! HAL has listened and responded, even during these difficult financial times. We can now do our part by leaving books we have read in a spot where others can enjoy them.

 

We are impressed by the way HAL are looking for ways to use their staff and space to add 'value' to the cruise experience without great financial outlay. On our Fall TA the Captain and Hotel General Manager presented a hilarious cookout event together and on the South Pacific cruise the Crewshow was back! Big smiles from both the crew and a packed audience. The introduction of pickleball is another low cost, but very popular, use of space. Colouring and art classes are similar. Great to see some thinking 'outside the box' and hope it will be expanded.

[ChinaShrek]

On 5/30/2023 at 4:23 PM, ldtr said:

I thought it was more people camping out and reserving the loungers in front of the windows.  I guess they must be more comfortable than their beds because many seem to spend the day sleeping there.

I actually agree with this, The Crow's Nest never seemed very welcoming to me. Most of the chairs were taken by the same people for hours on end. I think a renovation was done to also move these people along.