Is Royal Caribbean building any small ships?

[PhillyFan33579]

3 hours ago, latebuyer said:

I feel i'm repeating things but for me I can't afford celebrity and it would be nice if royal caribbean could have small shops at an affordable price.

If you can’t afford Celebrity right now I assume you can’t afford RCI either. When researching similar itineraries with similar sized/aged ships, more often than not Celebrity’s fares are lower than RCI. 

[Airbear232]

If the world cruise is deemed a success, then I believe you can expect to see a new class of ships under 90k tons.  If there is a successful business case, then they will build it.  For my part, I've loved the larger ships.  I'm partial to Allure and my DW and I can watch Mamma Mia again and again.  However, I'm very much becoming amongst the "Bored of the Seas".  Sorry, a big amusement park floating in the water just isn't enough anymore.  I want good itineraries, good food, and decent entertainment.  I might just go mad if I have to go back to Perfect Day again.  Yuck!

[Biker19]

And yet another locale which is trying to limit ship size and passenger counts:

Sitka Residents Propose New Cruise Ship Limits for 2025 (cruisehive.com)

 

"If the initiative makes the ballot for the City & Borough elections in October, residents of the town of just over 8,300 people will vote on establishing a daily limit of 4,500 passengers on shore and an annual cap of 300,000.

Currently, Sitka’s cruise visitors have swelled to nearly 600,000 annually."

[The Fun Researcher]

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

And yet another locale which is trying to limit ship size and passenger counts:

Sitka Residents Propose New Cruise Ship Limits for 2025 (cruisehive.com)

 

"If the initiative makes the ballot for the City & Borough elections in October, residents of the town of just over 8,300 people will vote on establishing a daily limit of 4,500 passengers on shore and an annual cap of 300,000.

Currently, Sitka’s cruise visitors have swelled to nearly 600,000 annually."

True.  4500 passengers cuts out a lot of newer ships.

[smokeybandit]

That group and Sitka has been hellbent on limiting cruise ships but their efforts have been toothless so far.

[LXA350]

With extending the status match to all tiers throughout the Royal Caribbean Group it is clear that they want to provide it's customers flexibility of the different kind of cruise markets within their own group.

Yes Royal Caribbean is currently focusing on the family "resort" style vacation and and at young adults that want to have a few days / week of a great time partyng. This type of clientele is very important and the offering still has potential for growth.

However a family vacation for instance does not only go on a resort / beach holiday, they also want to explore something differnet, such as Alaska including a land tour. A ship is needed to replace Radiance currently doing the one way cruises from Vancuver to Seward and back. Same goes with exploring more exotic destinations involving culture and unique experiences. All of this you also want to experience as a family and for this a class of ship should be created.

It's a great thing that there is now the full status match across the group but still not everyone has the budget to cruise on Silversea or likes this type of cruise ships. Hence, there still has to be a other option to explore the world. Yes there is also X but also here it's more adults and less so meets the full multi generation criteria.

[Travelw]

My wife and I are in our early 70s with 30 cruises taken.  Not as many as many of you but a lot for us.  We do not care for mega ships, although we have sailed on Allure and Wonder.  Had a great time on both, just too big and crowded, especially on sea days.  We prefer Princess over Celebrity, we think the ships are decorated more to our taste.  Have no plans on sailing the new class of Princess ships though, getting big for us and from the few reviews I have read they are not great.

 

Anyway these are our thoughts.

[renza]

Discovery class is gonna take over the vision class. Not projected to be huge. Still is going to go out of Tampa as well, so they’ll have to build a ship that can still fit under it.

[PhillyFan33579]

4 hours ago, renza said:

Discovery class is gonna take over the vision class. Not projected to be huge. Still is going to go out of Tampa as well, so they’ll have to build a ship that can still fit under it.

Please post the link where you got this information. I am on my 10th RCI cruise this year right now and I have yet to hear any staff officer at a top tier event, 340 plus luncheon, etc. state that RCI will definitely be building a new smaller class ship. Over a year ago I heard on multiple cruises that Utopia would be the last Oasis class ship.  We now know that has changed. Obviously I don’t have access to RCI’s financial books, but common sense tells you the bigger ships are more profitable, otherwise why build another Oasis class ship. If all the financial evidence RCI has access to points to larger ships generating the most profit, they would be foolish to build a new, smaller class of ship. 

[Tatka]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:33 PM, Airbear232 said:

If the world cruise is deemed a success, then I believe you can expect to see a new class of ships under 90k tons.  If there is a successful business case, then they will build it.  For my part, I've loved the larger ships.  I'm partial to Allure and my DW and I can watch Mamma Mia again and again.  However, I'm very much becoming amongst the "Bored of the Seas".  Sorry, a big amusement park floating in the water just isn't enough anymore.  I want good itineraries, good food, and decent entertainment.  I might just go mad if I have to go back to Perfect Day again.  Yuck!

Royal Caribbean is clearly a family line now. May be it has some more adventurous itineraries like Canada /NE; Alaska etc, but it I was interested in real explorations I’d  turn to their luxury brand Silver Seas, or maybe to Oceania and such.

[Charles4515]

28 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Please post the link where you got this information. I am on my 10th RCI cruise this year right now and I have yet to hear any staff officer at a top tier event, 340 plus luncheon, etc. state that RCI will definitely be building a new smaller class ship. Over a year ago I heard on multiple cruises that Utopia would be the last Oasis class ship.  We now know that has changed. Obviously I don’t have access to RCI’s financial books, but common sense tells you the bigger ships are more profitable, otherwise why build another Oasis class ship. If all the financial evidence RCI has access to points to larger ships generating the most profit, they would be foolish to build a new, smaller class of ship. 

People keep saying RCI is going to build a class of small or smaller ships yet they keep ordering larger ships! You are right they generate the most profit. If they order a smaller class of ships I believe they will go to Celebrity and Silversea where they can profit by charging higher fares. 

[Charles4515]

On 6/18/2024 at 10:59 AM, latebuyer said:

I feel i'm repeating things but for me I can't afford celebrity and it would be nice if royal caribbean could have small shops at an affordable price.

Small ships would have to have higher prices to be profitable.
 

If Celebrity is not affordable to you then you might not have a savvy booking strategy. 

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I am on my 10th RCI cruise this year right now and I have yet to hear any staff officer at a top tier event, 340 plus luncheon, etc. state that RCI will definitely be building a new smaller class ship.

The captain's corner on Adventure in March said all captains were told about Discovery class and that it would come online in 2028/2029.

Edited June 23 by smokeybandit

[Airbear232]

1 hour ago, Tatka said:

Royal Caribbean is clearly a family line now. May be it has some more adventurous itineraries like Canada /NE; Alaska etc, but it I was interested in real explorations I’d  turn to their luxury brand Silver Seas, or maybe to Oceania and such.

I disagree, I don’t believe Royal is just a family line.  That business model won’t work nor does it account for the different itineraries they run.

[RobInMN]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Please post the link where you got this information. I am on my 10th RCI cruise this year right now and I have yet to hear any staff officer at a top tier event, 340 plus luncheon, etc. state that RCI will definitely be building a new smaller class ship. Over a year ago I heard on multiple cruises that Utopia would be the last Oasis class ship.  We now know that has changed. Obviously I don’t have access to RCI’s financial books, but common sense tells you the bigger ships are more profitable, otherwise why build another Oasis class ship. If all the financial evidence RCI has access to points to larger ships generating the most profit, they would be foolish to build a new, smaller class of ship. 

As there has been no official announcement, there are no links to give you. However, if you go back over this thread (as well as other Project Discovery threads), you will see that many captains have made comments about Project Discovery with some indication of size, and design considerations. Further Michael Bayley has mentioned it in earnings calls or something (I don't recall where - but it's probably in this thread).

23 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The captain's corner on Adventure in March said all captains were told about Discovery class and that it would come online in 2028/2029.

That might be a bit optimistic, as I think someone posted a ship orders list somewhere in the last year and any ship yard that could build it is booked until 2029 for starts. But I would be very happy if the 2028/2029 is correct.

 

[renza]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Please post the link where you got this information. I am on my 10th RCI cruise this year right now and I have yet to hear any staff officer at a top tier event, 340 plus luncheon, etc. state that RCI will definitely be building a new smaller class ship. Over a year ago I heard on multiple cruises that Utopia would be the last Oasis class ship.  We now know that has changed. Obviously I don’t have access to RCI’s financial books, but common sense tells you the bigger ships are more profitable, otherwise why build another Oasis class ship. If all the financial evidence RCI has access to points to larger ships generating the most profit, they would be foolish to build a new, smaller class of ship. 

It was stated on my enchantment cruise in April and my son works for royal

[PhillyFan33579]

15 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

I disagree, I don’t believe Royal is just a family line.  That business model won’t work nor does it account for the different itineraries they run.

What makes you think RCI couldn’t survive as a family line? I cruise on RCI 1-2 times a month and their ships are always packed with lots of families with tons of kids. Any successful business learns to change over time as the market dictates. If larger ships generate the most revenue, that is what they should continue building. Maybe one day in the future they eliminate a lot of itineraries they have been doing for decades, but the board and stockholders will be happy if profits are at an all time high. Frequent cruisers like me (and I assume you but don’t want to speak for you) want to be able to continue going to ports that larger ships can’t go to, but investing in smaller ships may not be smart financially for RCI. You don’t have to be a genius to see that RCI is moving more and more to focusing on families with the ship and their private islands/areas becoming the focal point of their cruises. With more and more cities trying to limit the number of cruise ships that visit or eliminate them all together, RCI focusing on making the ship the destination is a smart move in my book. 

[PhillyFan33579]

20 minutes ago, renza said:

It was stated on my enchantment cruise in April and my son works for royal

I believe you heard that, but I also know last year on several ships the Captain at top tier events stated Utopia would definitely be the last Oasis class ship, which we now know is not the case. At the 340 plus luncheon on Radiance two weeks ago, someone asked the Captain about Project Discovery. He did a good job of tap dancing around the question and basically stated RCI was looking at several options for how their fleet of the future will look. Personally I think the success of Icon has changed RCI’s future plans and is the number one reason why RCI decided to build another Oasis class ship. On the other hand, and I could be way off about this, but I think eventually people are going to stop paying the extremely high fares to cruise on Icon, which will obviously impact RCI financially. On a side note, I thought I was paying a lot (a little over $3000) for balconies on two Icon cruises the day bookings were first available. In hindsight they were great prices. 

[Rackham]

Royal hasn't ordered any smaller ships in recent memory because they haven't needed them for fleet development. However, the smaller ships in the fleet will be hitting the big 3-0 within the decade. Not every route needs a large ship (such as Alaska), smaller ships than Oasis or Quantum class also provide the company flexibility in deployment due to operational needs or consumer tastes, and still ties into becoming a family focused line since not every family is looking for that large ship resort experience for every vacation. Some are looking for more of an "adventure" lodge versus a tropical resort. Smaller ships help keep families, and their dollars, with Royal.

 

Here's my ship ages chart for Voyager sized and down for reference.
 

Vision Class
Ship	Maiden	Revitalized	Delta	2x Delta	25 Year	30 Year	35 Year	40 Year		Delta between 30 and Current
Grandeur	1996	2012	16	2028	2021	2026	2031	2036		2
Rhapsody	1997	2012	15	2027	2022	2027	2032	2037		3
Enchantment	1997	2016	19	2035	2022	2027	2032	2037		3
Vision	1998	2013	15	2028	2023	2028	2033	2038		4
Radiance Class
Ship	Maiden	Revitalized	Delta	2x Delta	25 Year	30 Year	35 Year	40 Year		Delta between 30 and Current
Radiance	2001	2016	15	2031	2026	2031	2036	2041		7
Brilliance	2002	2013	11	2024	2027	2032	2037	2042		8
Serenade	2003	2012	9	2021	2028	2033	2038	2043		9
Jewel	2004	2016	12	2028	2029	2034	2039	2044		10
Voyager Class
Ship	Maiden	Revitalized	Delta	2x Delta	25 Year	30 Year	35 Year	40 Year		Delta between 30 and Current
Voyager	1999	2019	20	2039	2024	2029	2034	2039		5
Explorer	2000				2025	2030	2035	2040		6
Adventure	2001	2016	15	2031	2026	2031	2036	2041		7
Navigator	2002	2019	17	2036	2027	2032	2037	2042		8
Mariner	2003	2018	15	2033	2028	2033	2038	2043		9

[Nathan Graveson]

16 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I believe you heard that, but I also know last year on several ships the Captain at top tier events stated Utopia would definitely be the last Oasis class ship, which we now know is not the case. At the 340 plus luncheon on Radiance two weeks ago, someone asked the Captain about Project Discovery. He did a good job of tap dancing around the question and basically stated RCI was looking at several options for how their fleet of the future will look. Personally I think the success of Icon has changed RCI’s future plans and is the number one reason why RCI decided to build another Oasis class ship. On the other hand, and I could be way off about this, but I think eventually people are going to stop paying the extremely high fares to cruise on Icon, which will obviously impact RCI financially. On a side note, I thought I was paying a lot (a little over $3000) for balconies on two Icon cruises the day bookings were first available. In hindsight they were great prices. 

Well, Oasis 7 was originally planned just as Covid-19 hit, shelving the project until recently. It was always in the plans to build more after Utopia, carrying on the variation philosophy of the Oasis-Class starting with paired sister generations. To be completely honest now, I would not be surprised at all if Royal order an 8th Oasis-Class ship... Royal have seen massive success with the class, with each sailing running at over 75% capacity all year round, with the new ships selling out maiden seasons, such as Wonder and Utopia.

 

As for Project Discovery, Royal are in a very funny position. The success of Icon, has very much surpassed Royal's expectations, getting to the point of having to open 2026 sailings due to the demand for the product. This will have affected the new project very heavily, possibly even changing it completely. If the success of the mega cruise ship continues, we must say goodbye to new Royal ships under 150,000 gross tons... From what I have heard however, plans and concepts are still being drawn up for what could be the perfect replacement for both Vision and Radiance-Class, further into the future. As for launch dates, many Captains have said they are aiming for the end of the decade, from my research into orderbooks, Meyer Werft is the only shipyard that can accommodate these new ships, after Carnival's final Excel-Class ship in 2028. 

[smokeybandit]

35 minutes ago, Nathan Graveson said:

The success of Icon, has very much surpassed Royal's expectations, getting to the point of having to open 2026 sailings due to the demand for the product.

There isn't any itinerary open to book in 2026 that is outside the regular schedule release schedule.

[Tatka]

20 hours ago, Airbear232 said:

I disagree, I don’t believe Royal is just a family line.  That business model won’t work nor does it account for the different itineraries they run.

   It’s not only for families as families do not cruise in masses during number of months. Also families are slowly switching to larger ships with more families attractions. More sophisticated mature travelers are just not RCI key market.

 

  I’m saying this while being yearly 50s empty nester for 10+ years who travelled extensively in Europe on cruises and without. We cruise with RCI multiple times per year including some cruises with adult majority (2 11-12 cruises per year on Quantum and Vision classes in January and March … on 9 dayers to NE/Canada in September)… but it’s because ships are ported there or older. I love cruises for being cruises.

 

 My parents (early 70s) who are looking for exotic adventures  … switched to Oceania.
 

 

[Airbear232]

20 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

What makes you think RCI couldn’t survive as a family line? I cruise on RCI 1-2 times a month and their ships are always packed with lots of families with tons of kids. Any successful business learns to change over time as the market dictates. If larger ships generate the most revenue, that is what they should continue building. Maybe one day in the future they eliminate a lot of itineraries they have been doing for decades, but the board and stockholders will be happy if profits are at an all time high. Frequent cruisers like me (and I assume you but don’t want to speak for you) want to be able to continue going to ports that larger ships can’t go to, but investing in smaller ships may not be smart financially for RCI. You don’t have to be a genius to see that RCI is moving more and more to focusing on families with the ship and their private islands/areas becoming the focal point of their cruises. With more and more cities trying to limit the number of cruise ships that visit or eliminate them all together, RCI focusing on making the ship the destination is a smart move in my book. 

I’m going to disagree, they are not always “packed” with families and kids.  While we took our kids out of school during the school year, most people don’t.  And, for this reason, they cannot survive as just a “family” line.  They need  their older demographic.  It’s fun to speculate about this and people are very passionate about what the line is going to do. 

[Volk9048]

Royal has found the Radiance class pretty useful. Seems like the new smaller ship is coming and 90,000-105,000 ton range it will need to fit under theTampa and  rebuilt  Baltimore Bridge that will likely be higher than the old bridge.  At ship can be heavier without being taller I would think.  I would also suggest that you could create a sister version for Celebrity using the same hull to replace the M class.   

 

With 8 smaller ships aging out and more and more ports putting in daily passenger limits and new ship in the 2500 passenger range is needed quickly.  You could built 2 of these for the price of 1 icon. 
 

 

[Charles4515]

27 minutes ago, Airbear232 said:

I’m going to disagree, they are not always “packed” with families and kids.  While we took our kids out of school during the school year, most people don’t.  And, for this reason, they cannot survive as just a “family” line.  They need  their older demographic.  It’s fun to speculate about this and people are very passionate about what the line is going to do. 

As I have gotten older Royal Caribbean does not draw me. I only go on Royal when family and friends do. These days I want better than Royal provides. Better than they likely ever will provide. My taste has gone upscale. They can survive as a family line. Most families can’t afford what I can afford now. 

 

25 minutes ago, Volk9048 said:

Royal has found the Radiance class pretty useful. Seems like the new smaller ship is coming and 90,000-105,000 ton range it will need to fit under theTampa and  rebuilt  Baltimore Bridge that will likely be higher than the old bridge.  At ship can be heavier without being taller I would think.  I would also suggest that you could create a sister version for Celebrity using the same hull to replace the M class.   

 

With 8 smaller ships aging out and more and more ports putting in daily passenger limits and new ship in the 2500 passenger range is needed quickly.  You could built 2 of these for the price of 1 icon. 
 

 

I think Royal does not need Tampa or Baltimore. Minor markets. (the new bridge in Baltimore can be higher and probably will be because higher is the standard now but the other bridge is too low for larger ships. Unless it gets knocked down by an accident it is going to be an obstacle for many years) I can see them building more super Quantum sized ships but I doubt they will build smaller than that. 

Edited Monday at 12:02 AM by Charles4515