2025 Itinerary release

[Ourusualbeach]

Anyone have any ideas on when Holland usually releases their 2025 itineraries.

 

Specifically looking at the 50+ day Vancouver to San Diego in September 2025 that they have done the last couple of years.

 

Thanks

[CruiserBruce]

2025 to April has been released. 2025 to about October will probably be released in the next month or two.

[KruisinKath]

Really, that early?? Ack, gotta get my cabin figured out - thought I’d have until at least February!

[Ourusualbeach]

7 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

2025 to April has been released. 2025 to about October will probably be released in the next month or two.

Thanks.

[rodndonna]

9 hours ago, KruisinKath said:

Really, that early?? Ack, gotta get my cabin figured out - thought I’d have until at least February!

 

At least you seem to know where you want to cruise.

 

We are hoping to book Fall 2025 after returning from our fall 2023 cruise. Hoping for a "come back" offer to combine with the "early booking bonus HIA " rates and early booking Mariner early booking bonus OBC . 😃

[KruisinKath]

14 hours ago, rodndonna said:

 

At least you seem to know where you want to cruise.

 

We are hoping to book Fall 2025 after returning from our fall 2023 cruise. Hoping for a "come back" offer to combine with the "early booking bonus HIA " rates and early booking Mariner early booking bonus OBC . 😃

That’d be the trifecta for you!!

[rodndonna]

8 hours ago, KruisinKath said:

That’d be the trifecta for you!!

 

And I forgot using the on-board purchased Future Cruise Deposit for that additional  OBC  - so possibly It would be a newly invented "QUADdrafecta" ! 😀

[Cruise NH]

I know the 2025 world cruise has been announced (and the pole to pole) but no other grand cruise for ‘25 yet, or did I miss something?.  I keep hoping for grand Asia some year!  Are there any grand cruises anticipated for ‘25?  

[FlorenceItaly]

I was hoping to book the 58 day Legendary Med 2025(RT FLL) cruise that Gus mentioned while speaking on the World Cruise.  Last week I was told by my PCC it is NOT happening.  Very disappointed.

[Cruise NH]

3 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

I was hoping to book the 58 day Legendary Med 2025(RT FLL) cruise that Gus mentioned while speaking on the World Cruise.  Last week I was told by my PCC it is NOT happening.  Very disappointed.

That’s surprising I thought Hal was looking to do more ‘longer’ cruises in the future.

[CruiserBruce]

4 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

I was hoping to book the 58 day Legendary Med 2025(RT FLL) cruise that Gus mentioned while speaking on the World Cruise.  Last week I was told by my PCC it is NOT happening.  Very disappointed.

Again,  HAL is down 4 ships. They have to determine the appropriate allocation of their resources. Maybe that cruise will be at a different time.

[Heartgrove]

11 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Again,  HAL is down 4 ships. They have to determine the appropriate allocation of their resources. Maybe that cruise will be at a different time.

 

Down four ships?

[CruiserBruce]

2 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Down four ships?

Remember...they sold 4 during Covid?

[Heartgrove]

17 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Remember...they sold 4 during Covid?

 

Yes, they sold four in 2020. But...added the Rotterdam in 2021 whose passenger capacity actually exceeds the Maasdam and Veendam combined. Also they had decided to deploy more ships to the more lucrative Alaska market in 2023. If a fourth Pinnacle-class was built, the number of berths/beds would be the same as pre-pandemic.

[CruiserBruce]

Just now, Heartgrove said:

 

Yes, they sold four in 2020. But...added the Rotterdam in 2021 whose passenger capacity actually exceeds the Maasdam and Veendam combined. Also they had decided to deploy more ships to the more lucrative Alaska market in 2023. If a fourth Pinnacle-class was built, the number of berths/beds would be the same as pre-pandemic.

OK, a ship that has double capacity can only sail one route at a time, not two ( or more) routes the smaller ships could have sailed. And you should expect they will plan a route that will support the larger ship. Again,  the number of berths being equal to pre Covid doesn't mean the equal or greater number of routes. Berths and routes are not really related this discussion. 

 

They used to run 7 ships in Alaska. Don't think they are running 8 this year, are they? But if they are, it's because the money is there.

 

Not heard that HAL has any new ships in the pipeline, but a new one couldn't be built before 2025. MAYBE, in a perfect situation,  2026 at the soonest, but highly unlikely in the current conditions. "If they built a 4th Pinnacle class"...wow...that is speculation on a massive scale. I hope they do, but haven't heard any traces of facts supporting it.

 

[Heartgrove]

6 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

OK, a ship that has double capacity can only sail one route at a time, not two ( or more) routes the smaller ships could have sailed. And you should expect they will plan a route that will support the larger ship. Again,  the number of berths being equal to pre Covid doesn't mean the equal or greater number of routes. Berths and routes are not really related this discussion. 

 

They used to run 7 ships in Alaska. Don't think they are running 8 this year, are they? But if they are, it's because the money is there.

 

Not heard that HAL has any new ships in the pipeline, but a new one couldn't be built before 2025. MAYBE, in a perfect situation,  2026 at the soonest, but highly unlikely in the current conditions. "If they built a 4th Pinnacle class"...wow...that is speculation on a massive scale. I hope they do, but haven't heard any traces of facts supporting it.

 

 

I agree with some of the things you wrote. HAL is running six ships in Alaska for 2023. But it is a different cruise market than five years ago even if the pandemic hadn't happened. The market has shifted to larger ships which are cheaper to sail than smaller, older ships. That also then limits, because of their size, the number of ports that can be visited. Some of the smaller "boutique" cruise lines are filling the void,  even using the former HAL ships.

 

Then there is a cruise line like MSC whose policy is to continue sailing all of their ships while still adding yearly to their fleet (two in 2023!) rather than disposing of them to another cruise line and thus become competition. Plus MSC is starting their Explora cruise line to compete with the more upscale lines. The MSC catalog of destinations is almost world wide. Depending on the season they sail in the US, Europe, South America, South Africa, and the Middle East They are expanding to a fifth port here is the US next year, permanently basing a ship in the Japan/Asia market, and has eyes on the US West Coast. In two years the 6,600 passenger World America will begin sailing here, presumably the Caribbean market.

 

I believe that there is internal turmoil within Carnival Corporation which could bring more change. What is the future of Costa Crociere?  Two ships have been transfered from Costa Crociere to Carnival Cruise Lines this year with a third next year. Those three are similar to two classes that Carnival already sails. The Costa Deliziosa is referred to as a hybrid Vista/Spirit-class. Appearance wise and deck layout it is similar to the HAL Vista/Pinnacle classes. If Costa would thin its fleet even more could HAL become a possible recipient of the Costa Deliziosa? It's sister ship, the Costa Luminosa now sail as the Carnival Luminosa. That might help with an easy and absorbable increase in the HAL fleet.

[CruiserBruce]

@Heartgrove, the thing MSC has going for it is a huge ( one of the world's largest) freight operations to finance the rapid expansion of the cruise operations. MSC shut down cruise operations during Covid,  everyone did. But they had a booming freight business to support them, something no cruise company did.

 

Can't speak to the Costa situation, as I have no knowledge,  but I suspect MSC could be hitting Costa hard.

[cruisingrob21]

11 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

I believe that there is internal turmoil within Carnival Corporation which could bring more change. What is the future of Costa Crociere?  Two ships have been transfered from Costa Crociere to Carnival Cruise Lines this year with a third next year. Those three are similar to two classes that Carnival already sails. The Costa Deliziosa is referred to as a hybrid Vista/Spirit-class. Appearance wise and deck layout it is similar to the HAL Vista/Pinnacle classes. If Costa would thin its fleet even more could HAL become a possible recipient of the Costa Deliziosa? It's sister ship, the Costa Luminosa now sail as the Carnival Luminosa. That might help with an easy and absorbable increase in the HAL fleet.

I've wondered the same thing myself about Costa ships and being transferred to HAL if the need arose.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

Getting back to the question on the Grand Mediterranean, it seems to me that HAL is putting fewer ships in the Mediterranean than previously as well. (I haven't crunched any numbers, this is just based on browsing for itineraries.)

 

I recognize they have fewer ships numerically, but I feel the market in Europe also has shifted somewhat -- there seems to be more appetite for Northern European routes than Med routes during the summer season. The Med has been very crowded with ships and overplayed in the last decade -- but things may be shifting. There were some very good bargains just before and after Covid, in part due to all the competition. Perhaps it just became financially unfeasible to have so many ships in an area that is becoming less profitable.

 

Due to its history HAL has strengths in that area (Northern Europe), so perhaps they are playing to them.

 

At any rate, I realize the idea of a Grand Med cruise is somewhat unique in that it takes away the need for flights. However, given the amount of cruise passengers who opt to spend more time in Europe either before or after a cruise to fully enjoy the region, perhaps HAL looked at data suggesting such a cruise might be a hard sell as a R/T.  (Of course, they could also offer it as two one-way voyages, I suppose....)

 

It's all about making smart changes in an ever more crowded market.

Edited June 19, 2023 by cruisemom42

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Getting back to the question on the Grand Mediterranean, it seems to me that HAL is putting fewer ships in the Mediterranean than previously as well. (I haven't crunched any numbers, this is just based on browsing for itineraries.)

 

I recognize they have fewer ships numerically, but I feel the market in Europe also has shifted somewhat -- there seems to be more appetite for Northern European routes than Med routes during the summer season. The Med has been very crowded with ships and overplayed in the last decade -- but things may be shifting. There were some very good bargains just before and after Covid, in part due to all the competition. Perhaps it just became financially unfeasible to have so many ships in an area that is becoming less profitable.

 

Due to its history HAL has strengths in that area (Northern Europe), so perhaps they are playing to them.

 

At any rate, I realize the idea of a Grand Med cruise is somewhat unique in that it takes away the need for flights. However, given the amount of cruise passengers who opt to spend more time in Europe either before or after a cruise to fully enjoy the region, perhaps HAL looked at data suggesting such a cruise might be a hard sell as a R/T.  (Of course, they could also offer it as two one-way voyages, I suppose....)

 

It's all about making smart changes in an ever more crowded market.

You are correct...HAL is now running only one ship in the Med, as opposed to 3, except at the very early and late parts of the Med season (think up to mid May and after about September 15), when one or two other ships make short visits. And you are correct,  the Med is horrendously "over shipped". The Med might be less profitable due to this, and being down 4 ships makes that an easy decision if true.

[RD64]

I truly admire those of you that are able to plan so far into the future. Family and other commitments do not allow me to plan past Wednesday.