ETIAS

[emam]

So how will the new ETIAS that are starting in 2024 work with cruising. Will you have to hand them over to P&O onboard the ship for them to be checked. I wouldn't think that would be so as you probably won't get them back. I'm assuming it's something you will keep with you passport. I suppose that P&O will create another page on the online check-in. 

 

Knowing how good with IT P&O are it will be a doddle. 🤣

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, emam said:

So how will the new ETIAS that are starting in 2024 work with cruising. Will you have to hand them over to P&O onboard the ship for them to be checked. I wouldn't think that would be so as you probably won't get them back. I'm assuming it's something you will keep with you passport. I suppose that P&O will create another page on the online check-in. 

 

Knowing how good with IT P&O are it will be a doddle. 🤣

If it operates like the US  ESTAs, then it will be automatically linked to your passport, and you should not need a separate copy.

Fortunately over 70s are exempt and will not need one.

Edited June 24, 2023 by terrierjohn

[emam]

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

 

Fortunately over 70s are exempt and will not need one.

 

Not from what I read, but they don't have to pay. Questions include education, medical conditions, criminal records among others.

[emam]

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/travel-tourism/new-eu-travel-permit-you-27192777

 

[molecrochip]

Like ESTA it’s electronic. Nothing to print.
 

When P&O send their passenger manifest electronically to the local immigration, they will run the check before arriving.

 

It all works on passport numbers.

[molecrochip]

Just now, molecrochip said:

Like ESTA it’s electronic. Nothing to print.
 

When P&O send their passenger manifest electronically to the local immigration, they will run the check before arriving.

 

It all works on passport numbers.

That’s the theory, whether it works straight out of the box….?

[Snow Hill]

ETIAS is one thing EES (Entry Exit System) which requires biometric data including fingerprints also comes into force in 2024 for countries not in the EU, It will operate at all airports and EU countries with a maritime ports, not clear yet how this will operate for cruise ships or ferries. 
 

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/general-information_en

 

[majortom10]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Like ESTA it’s electronic. Nothing to print.
 

When P&O send their passenger manifest electronically to the local immigration, they will run the check before arriving.

 

It all works on passport numbers.

Not like ESTA's. We went on roundtrip TA on QM2 in 2019 and when at customs in Brooklyn we handed over Passports and printed copy of ESTA's and he handed back our ESTA's and said he didn't need to see them as it was all on his computer. We went again in May 2023 with new ESTA's and we were asked for our printed copy at check in by staff in Southampton and we were specifically asked by customs officer in  Brooklyn for our ESTA's and he took them off us and inspected them.

[Palaceman]

That just shows how things can change.  Call me a dinosaur, if you want but computer systems can "go down" or need "rebooting" ( turning off and on in my world). You will never replace the written piece of paper. 

[zap99]

6 minutes ago, Palaceman said:

That just shows how things can change.  Call me a dinosaur, if you want but computer systems can "go down" or need "rebooting" ( turning off and on in my world). You will never replace the written piece of paper. 

When we went to Canada and the US I printed out my visa ( ETIHAD ) things. I print all my docs. You may get your phone pinched, or drop it down the loo. You may think I'm a pessimist, but didn"t some WAG " accidentally" dropped hers off a car ferry.?🤣

 

[tring]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

Not like ESTA's. We went on roundtrip TA on QM2 in 2019 and when at customs in Brooklyn we handed over Passports and printed copy of ESTA's and he handed back our ESTA's and said he didn't need to see them as it was all on his computer. We went again in May 2023 with new ESTA's and we were asked for our printed copy at check in by staff in Southampton and we were specifically asked by customs officer in  Brooklyn for our ESTA's and he took them off us and inspected them.

 

Last week I was talking with someone who had called at New Orleans on Ventura earlier this year, as their first US port.  He said that although a hard copy of their ESTA's should not have been needed, the US would not let them go ashore without one.  Also seems the last people were not cleared for entry until 4-5pm the first day.  It seems some people missed their afternoon trips.  US immigration does not get any better.

 

We are due into NY on Aurora in September, can I ask if immigration works any quicker there?

 

 

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

Last week I was talking with someone who had called at New Orleans on Ventura earlier this year, as their first US port.  He said that although a hard copy of their ESTA's should not have been needed, the US would not let them go ashore without one.  Also seems the last people were not cleared for entry until 4-5pm the first day.  It seems some people missed their afternoon trips.  US immigration does not get any better.

 

We are due into NY on Aurora in September, can I ask if immigration works any quicker there?

 

 

We were through customs very quickly but we were one of the first off the ship with us only being there for the day. We got off with those self disembarking so no big queue and customs officer checked passport and ESTA and that was it. Very quick and impressive.

[tring]

6 hours ago, majortom10 said:

We were through customs very quickly but we were one of the first off the ship with us only being there for the day. We got off with those self disembarking so no big queue and customs officer checked passport and ESTA and that was it. Very quick and impressive.

 

Thanks that is good to know and glad you were able to have a good long day there, hope you enjoyed it...

 

DH reminded me earlier though that NY is not our first US port call.  I think that is Boston, so will have to look into that, though we do have two days there.  It may be worth booking a shore tour for the first morning on Boston. As iay give us an advance good

[9265359]

The interesting issue for cruise ships is with ETIAS, is although the intended operation is that the initial application is done whilst at home, the biometric capture of data (facial and fingerprint) is done at the first entry to the Schengen area - i.e. when you first fly to (say) Spain after ETIAS is introduced the border guard captures those details.

 

That is what is concerning the port operators at Dover and the Eurostar operators at St Pancras, because the EU border guards are based there, and so when a car or coach arrives at Dover then all the passengers will have to get out and have their biometric details captured - the queues will be incredible.

 

So what will happen to cruise ship passengers? There seems to be silence at the moment, as unlike the ferry operation there are not EU border guards based at Southampton, so will the biometric data be captured by border guards at the first port stop for those who have not visited the Schengen zone since the introduction of ETIAS - well if so that is going to be fun.

 

Then separately EES is going to cause issues, because that is the system that will automatically track the entry and exit of people into the Schengen zone and calculate whether they have overstayed the 90/180 day limit or not. Currently the border guards would need to check all the stamps in the passport to see if someone has, and as that is a time consuming process they rarely bother.

 

But an automatic system - well I can see many people being caught out - and caught out on cruises they have not sailed on yet. For example you book a cruise for two weeks next year around the med for the spring, but spend several months in the EU over winter, and so when you come to sail the EES system says 'nope, you cannot board because you will exceed 90/180 during the cruise'. And good luck getting a refund or claiming on insurance.

 

And so I am very very glad to have an Irish passport which means I can avoid all of this hassle, and although my wife does not and has a UK passport, as the spouse of an EU citizen she is not bound by the 90/180 day rule whilst she travels with me. 

 

 

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, 9265359 said:

The interesting issue for cruise ships is with ETIAS, is although the intended operation is that the initial application is done whilst at home, the biometric capture of data (facial and fingerprint) is done at the first entry to the Schengen area - i.e. when you first fly to (say) Spain after ETIAS is introduced the border guard captures those details.

 

That is what is concerning the port operators at Dover and the Eurostar operators at St Pancras, because the EU border guards are based there, and so when a car or coach arrives at Dover then all the passengers will have to get out and have their biometric details captured - the queues will be incredible.

 

So what will happen to cruise ship passengers? There seems to be silence at the moment, as unlike the ferry operation there are not EU border guards based at Southampton, so will the biometric data be captured by border guards at the first port stop for those who have not visited the Schengen zone since the introduction of ETIAS - well if so that is going to be fun.

 

Then separately EES is going to cause issues, because that is the system that will automatically track the entry and exit of people into the Schengen zone and calculate whether they have overstayed the 90/180 day limit or not. Currently the border guards would need to check all the stamps in the passport to see if someone has, and as that is a time consuming process they rarely bother.

 

But an automatic system - well I can see many people being caught out - and caught out on cruises they have not sailed on yet. For example you book a cruise for two weeks next year around the med for the spring, but spend several months in the EU over winter, and so when you come to sail the EES system says 'nope, you cannot board because you will exceed 90/180 during the cruise'. And good luck getting a refund or claiming on insurance.

 

And so I am very very glad to have an Irish passport which means I can avoid all of this hassle, and although my wife does not and has a UK passport, as the spouse of an EU citizen she is not bound by the 90/180 day rule whilst she travels with me. 

 

 

The EES system will be at the point of entry into a Schengen country, I haven’t seen anything to suggest it will be accessed at point of departure except for the likes of the Channel Tunnel and Dover Ferry Port when French Passport Control have their posts. Given the EU data protection laws I would doubt they would give a Third Country which the U.K. now is access to their frontier system. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Snow Hill

[daveoc]

9 hours ago, tring said:

 

Thanks that is good to know and glad you were able to have a good long day there, hope you enjoyed it...

 

DH reminded me earlier though that NY is not our first US port call.  I think that is Boston, so will have to look into that, though we do have two days there.  It may be worth booking a shore tour for the first morning on Boston. As iay give us an advance good

People who have done this cruise in the past say that they have had customs officials come aboard in a Canadian port and then do all the passenger checks onboard. Hope it's the case this time as I'm onboard as well.

[tring]

9 minutes ago, daveoc said:

People who have done this cruise in the past say that they have had customs officials come aboard in a Canadian port and then do all the passenger checks onboard. Hope it's the case this time as I'm onboard as well.

 

Brilliant, let's hope that is the case.  Perhaps I will meet up with you then.  I have not been into the roll call for a while as we have had other things happening, including a recent Arcadia cruise, but once fully unpacked from that We must start looking into the US ports more fully.  We have been to threer of the Canadian ports previously.

 

[zap99]

2 hours ago, 9265359 said:

The interesting issue for cruise ships is with ETIAS, is although the intended operation is that the initial application is done whilst at home, the biometric capture of data (facial and fingerprint) is done at the first entry to the Schengen area - i.e. when you first fly to (say) Spain after ETIAS is introduced the border guard captures those details.

 

That is what is concerning the port operators at Dover and the Eurostar operators at St Pancras, because the EU border guards are based there, and so when a car or coach arrives at Dover then all the passengers will have to get out and have their biometric details captured - the queues will be incredible.

 

So what will happen to cruise ship passengers? There seems to be silence at the moment, as unlike the ferry operation there are not EU border guards based at Southampton, so will the biometric data be captured by border guards at the first port stop for those who have not visited the Schengen zone since the introduction of ETIAS - well if so that is going to be fun.

 

Then separately EES is going to cause issues, because that is the system that will automatically track the entry and exit of people into the Schengen zone and calculate whether they have overstayed the 90/180 day limit or not. Currently the border guards would need to check all the stamps in the passport to see if someone has, and as that is a time consuming process they rarely bother.

 

But an automatic system - well I can see many people being caught out - and caught out on cruises they have not sailed on yet. For example you book a cruise for two weeks next year around the med for the spring, but spend several months in the EU over winter, and so when you come to sail the EES system says 'nope, you cannot board because you will exceed 90/180 during the cruise'. And good luck getting a refund or claiming on insurance.

 

And so I am very very glad to have an Irish passport which means I can avoid all of this hassle, and although my wife does not and has a UK passport, as the spouse of an EU citizen she is not bound by the 90/180 day rule whilst she travels with me. 

 

 

When the UK introduce our visa for Irish folk, we will get you back, so there.🤔

[9265359]

41 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

The EES system will be at the point of entry into a Schengen country, I haven’t seen anything to suggest it will be accessed at point of departure except for the likes of the Channel Tunnel and Dover Ferry Port when French Passport Control have their posts. Given the EU data protection laws I would doubt they would give a Third Country which the U.K. now is access to their frontier system. 

 

EES is the computer system that records entry and exit to the Schengen zone and is separate but linked to ETIAS which needs to be accessed by border guards at the entry to the Schengen zone.

 

For cruise ships sailing departing from outside the Schengen zone with ports of call within the Schengen zone then the issue will be how will they identify passengers who will breach the 90/180 limit whilst onboard on that cruise.

 

Do you let everyone sail from Southampton for a med cruise then what happens when they arrive at La Coruna and EES flags up to the Spanish border guards dealing with the passenger manifest that someone on board will overstay during the cruise? Take them off the ship and deport them?

 

Or alternatively will the link to ETIAS flag up this up in advance with cruise companies required to submit passenger information before sailing and are informed 'no this person may not travel'.

 

10 minutes ago, zap99 said:

When the UK introduce our visa for Irish folk, we will get you back, so there.🤔

 

And then I would just use my UK passport. Dual citizenship, the best of both.

Edited June 26, 2023 by 9265359

[cruising.mark.uk]

2 hours ago, 9265359 said:

Then separately EES is going to cause issues, because that is the system that will automatically track the entry and exit of people into the Schengen zone and calculate whether they have overstayed the 90/180 day limit or not. Currently the border guards would need to check all the stamps in the passport to see if someone has, and as that is a time consuming process they rarely bother.

 

 

 

This is what worries me - how are passengers on a cruise from the UK going to get checked out of the Schengen zone?  If - as others have suggested - there have been problems in the past with P&O not passing on details of passengers leaving the US resulting in them overstaying their ESTA, will we be able to rely on P&O informing the EU that passengers have left the Schengen zone at the end of a Southampton to Southampton cruise or after the last EU port on a transatlantic or other cruise?  If they don't get that right, there is a risk that someone taking 2 cruises to Europe six months apart will be refused entry on the second one because the system thinks they never left after the first one and / or have exceeded their 90 / 180 days.

[Dermotsgirl]

31 minutes ago, zap99 said:

When the UK introduce our visa for Irish folk, we will get you back, so there.🤔

Why would the U.K. do that? The Common Travel Area has its roots nearly 100 years ago. 
 

 

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Why would the U.K. do that? The Common Travel Area has its roots nearly 100 years ago. 
 

 

Lots of old stuff is past its sell by date.

[Dermotsgirl]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Lots of old stuff is past its sell by date.

Then U.K. citizens would need a visa to go to Ireland, 

 

 

[zap99]

Just now, Dermotsgirl said:

Then U.K. citizens would need a visa to go to Ireland, 

 

 

Just like we will to go to EU. Goose and gander come to mind.

[david63]

It may be that with most ports of call a cruise passenger is only in a Schengen zone country for a few hours then the EES may not be implemented at ports - add to that the cost of doing so at every Schengen zone port for very little gain. Unlike airports or border crossings where there is a continuous flow of travellers ports, by their very nature, only have a spasmodic flow of travellers.

 

I would also suggest that it is totally impractical to operate EES at any cruise port. Take a ship with 5,000 passengers and assume that it takes an average of one minute to process each passenger then you are looking at something over 80 hours to process the passengers - and that is before you even consider the crew.